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Rhaegars stubbornness not to offer terms in the trident


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Or did he?




We have seen that in many big battles of asoif, when theres not a surprise attack, some sort of negotiations are approached before the fight. It happened between Stannis and Renly, Mance and Stannis during the siege, Cassel and Theon, etc.




We kind of think Rhaegar is not entirely a bad guy, and that even if all the AA, PP, etc is true, he is completely aware that if he wins, he will kill good men in the trident that are fighting for hell of good reasons. Unfearly asked for their heds, relatives killed and tourtured without even trials, etc. This is always a bad call, and he just cant give a frack about it.



If he is not as mad as his father, he knows this rebels are right, and that killing them is a crime. And if he is such a good guy, why the hell he did nothing to try to stop this fight? You know... as his gran gran pa did with the laughing storm in a very similar scenario.


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He didn't think he could lose, and if you cant lose why bother with terms? Also at this point I don't think there could be any reconciliation without him giving the rebels justice by killing Aerys, which doesn't seem likely. It isn't really comparable to Lyonel's rebellion, the cause was far more serious, there were more players involved, and all out war has been raging for a while before Rhaegar bothers to show his face.

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You can't offer terms when you aren't the majority. Robert represented the Stormlands, Vale, Riverlands, and North. Rhaegar represented Dorne and Crownlands.

The Vale, Riverlands, and Stormlands all also had loyalist factions, and the Targaryens had the Reach.

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Plus if R+L=J, then I think that the idea of terms was out the window because Robert didn't seem the type to accept terms when he had been slighted in such a major way (Rhaegar kidnapping and impregnating his betrothed). I know that the war wasn't started solely for Lyanna, but that may have negated any hope for a peaceful settlement. I doubt that the Starks or the Baratheons would have just blindly accepted a polygamous marriage despite what Targaryens had done in the past.


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You can't offer terms when you aren't the majority. Robert represented the Stormlands, Vale, Riverlands, and North. Rhaegar represented Dorne and Crownlands.

The Crown was the majority.

Rhaegars army outnumbered Roberts at the Trident and still had several thousand at Kings Landing and most of the Reach army holding Roberts home and heirs under siege.

The Crowns problem was a lack of leadership and poor communication, not a lack of support.

"The Reach" aka, not contributing any troops to the loyalist cause at the Trident. The Reach was at Storm's End

Rhaegar was too confident to actually use them.

When the battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but ... well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.

He took victory for granted, he thought he was some kind of chosen one and actually had superior numbers to the Rebels

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He didn't take the victory for granted. How could he offer forgiveness for Robert and Ned? By what authority? Aerys certainly would not subscribe to any Rhaegar's agreement. He would take it as another "evidence" of his son's betrayal. Why would they accept any agreement with Rhaegar? This war was never because of Lyanna, it was against Aerys abuses. Rhaegar was the last hope, but with the alleged abduction of Lyanna, for many it became clear that Rhaegar, as Aerys, felt himself above all others. He would be just another tyrant. There is no possible compromise.


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The Crown was the majority.

Rhaegars army outnumbered Roberts at the Trident and still had several thousand at Kings Landing and most of the Reach army holding Roberts home and heirs under siege.

The Crowns problem was a lack of leadership and poor communication, not a lack of support.

Rhaegar was too confident to actually use them.

When the battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but ... well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.

He took victory for granted, he thought he was some kind of chosen one and actually had superior numbers to the Rebels

I meant the majority of the kingdoms. Robert had that with 4/7 supporting him.

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I meant the majority of the kingdoms. Robert had that with 4/7 supporting him.

The Targs still had supporters in the Riverlands, Stormlands and the Vale so that is not strictly true.

It was just horrendous leadership on the Crowns part that they didnt properly organize this support and wipe out the rebels much earlier.

Aerys refusal to leave the Capital, Rhaegars disappearance, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and Arthur Dayne wasted at the Tower of Joy and Four different Hands in the space of a year contributed to the Crowns downfall and poor communication.

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At hat point there is no way he can. They have been fighting in open Rebellion and it would make him look extremely week. Regardless if they were right he couldn't just offer them peace especially since we still don't know what is going on behind the scenes ( at the TOJ). not to mention he outnumbered then so hed look even worse

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I meant the majority of the kingdoms. Robert had that with 4/7 supporting him.

Robert was actually facing the majority of his own lords in battle IIRC. The north is the only kingdom that didn't have a loyalist faction except for Westerlands. Even JoN Arryn faced a civil war in the Vale and look how his lords love him

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He couldn't give them what he wanted and he was a fool. The fact he left White Bull at the Tower when he led a successful invasion against the nine penny kings should have been on Aerys and his mind. I am kind of wondering why Aerys just didn't give him command.


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Does anyone else think that maybe before the Robert/Rhaegar showdown he was trying to EXIT the battle. His other commanders had all died or nearly dying, I think it's fair to assume that he wanted to leave before his side went into total chaos.

This matches up to the fact that after he died everyone on the Targs side was running away. This wasn't my idea I heard it some where else but it's very likely.

Does that sound like stubbornness? Or a guy who accepted facts, could have gotten away but ended up in an awkward situation.

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He couldn't give them what he wanted and he was a fool. The fact he left White Bull at the Tower when he led a successful invasion against the nine penny kings should have been on Aerys and his mind. I am kind of wondering why Aerys just didn't give him command.

Aerys was even more stupid than Rhaegar, the two can't function in leadership positions without someone else around to do everything for them

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Or did he?

We have seen that in many big battles of asoif, when theres not a surprise attack, some sort of negotiations are approached before the fight. It happened between Stannis and Renly, Mance and Stannis during the siege, Cassel and Theon, etc.

We kind of think Rhaegar is not entirely a bad guy, and that even if all the AA, PP, etc is true, he is completely aware that if he wins, he will kill good men in the trident that are fighting for hell of good reasons. Unfearly asked for their heds, relatives killed and tourtured without even trials, etc. This is always a bad call, and he just cant give a frack about it.

If he is not as mad as his father, he knows this rebels are right, and that killing them is a crime. And if he is such a good guy, why the hell he did nothing to try to stop this fight? You know... as his gran gran pa did with the laughing storm in a very similar scenario.

A fair question..... I whole heartedly disagree, Robert was leading the rebellion at that point and there are no terms that Robert would've accepted. Once Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna there were no terms that Robert would've accepted. He may have accepted single combat, but his advisors would've been against such a risky move, Rhaegar was one of the finest warriors in the realm and Robert was still young. The only thing that he could've done was surrender, and only a coward would've done that in that situation, kind of like what Aenys did with the faith militant and that created nothing but havoc for years. Honestly, his situation almost mirrored the situation that Jaehaerys I with Maegor the Cruel, it would've been interesting to see what kind of king he would've been had he ascended to the throne. The only blame that I have with Rhaegar was the way he pursued Lyanna and the fact that he should've removed his father much sooner. Even before the infamous tourney at Harrenhal.

Now with that in mind, do you still want to claim that Rhaegar was stubborn?

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He actually thought he would win. He actually thought he could fight Robert and win. Confidence must have been really high from Lyanna telling him he was the best she ever had.

He wasn't the only one who thought he would win. Everyone else did as well. It was commonly thought that the Prince of Dragonstone would crush this usurper. Clearly a reason as to why people thought this. Plus he had more men.

It was a pretty fair assumption.

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