I think the Dothraki gonna conquer Essos

[GoT_Academy]

From the start of the story we hear two things about the Dothraki - 1. that they are great warriors 2. They are scared of the sea and will not cross it.

This leads me to believe that we have to see these two things play out. They need to win some wars and cross the narrow sea. Makes sense story-wise.

Also, Dany is now with them with Drogon near Mereen. Makes sense for them to go after her there and then pillage Volantis and maybe Pentos and other Free Cities (not Braavos). This will make her the ASOIAF version of the Mongolian Gengis Khan.

The Mongols and Dothraki have a lot in common - horse people, war-like, nomads, living in plains. We know ASOIAF draws a lot of its inspirations from history, and when the Khan united the tribes and went on conquests they took a third of the world. The new female Khal could do the same. But I see the Dothraki drowning trying to cross the Narrow Sea (like the Mongols drowned - twice - trying to take Japan). It would be ironic.

Anyways, do you see the Dothraki pillage their way through Essos? Dany seems to be on the verge of accepting the fact that she's more of of a destroyer (dragon) than a ruler.

For more on that you can watch our video on the subject-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJBZ-xBmajg

[Ser Wun Wun]

Yes, I think the Dothraki will conquer several free cities (Volantis at the least) on their way to getting Dany to Westeros. Logistically, obviously Dany can't take all of the Dothraki with her to Westeros, so it would not surprise me at all if the ones who remain behind carve out an empire in Essos in the wake of destruction and chaos Dany is going to leave behind there on her way to Westeros.

However, I do not think the Dothraki who cross the Narrow Sea with Dany will drown. There is enough foreshadowing in the books to indicate that they will land and have actual martial conflict with Westerosi armies imo. They will eventually get their asses kicked, but they will land.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Nope too disunited and theres plenty of other forces to counter them ie free cities , yi ti , jhogos nhai etc

if she is taking them anywhere to sack itl be quarth (she already knows the backdoor route to the city through the red waste and its walls are undefended plus drogo talked of taking it) or yunkai to teach the ghiscari a lesson.

[GoT_Academy]

However, I do not think the Dothraki who cross the Narrow Sea with Dany will drown. There is enough foreshadowing in the books to indicate that they will land and have actual martial conflict with Westerosi armies imo. They will eventually get their asses kicked, but they will land.

What kind of foreshadowing? I might have missed that

[Ser Wun Wun]

What kind of foreshadowing? I might have missed that

Without actually compiling all the quotes, in ADWD there is a sequence in the fighting pits where Knights fight mounted Dothraki which reaks of foreshadowing for how their conflict will go in Westeros. I believe there was also a sequence in an ASOS Arya chapter involving a horsehead boat making a turbulent journey across a river that was assessed as representing Dany's journey across the narrow sea with the Dothraki. There was some stuff in the TWOW spoiler chapters involving some blatant foreshadowing for the 2nd Dance of the Dragons war that has some Dothraki themes to it (I think anyway, it was an Arianne that I haven't read in over a year).

There was also an outline released recently for Martin's original vision for this series that bluntly stated he intended the Dothraki to invade Westeros under Dany's leadership. Granted a lot of things from that outline have changed, but the major themes he intended for the 3 book plan he originally had seem the same. Book 1= Lannister and Stark fighting, Book 2= Dothraki invasion leading to a Dance of the Dragons, Book3= War with the Others.

Then there is just common sense in it....Dany is going to be at war with Aegon, this is basically 100% confirmed. For that she will need an army, and all signs point to that army being made of Dothraki. If they all drowned before landing....well, dragons or no that would make for one shitty war. It's highly implausible she would just find a native Westerosi army to fight for her,

But most of all...Martin has spent a hell of a lot of time prepping Dany to become the Khal of Khals, god only knows how many chapters in TWOW he will dedicate to her assuming control of them and then leading them through Essos. If he really intended for them all to just drown and Dany to happen upon a native Westerosi to fight for her against Aegon, he sure would have wasted a lot of time on this whole Dothraki arc, He could have saved a ton of time and just had her fly to Westeros and assume control of an army instead of makiing her go through the process of winning over the Dothraki and then marching/sailing them across the world. To just drown them wouldn't just be irony, it would be horrible writing.

[GoT_Academy]

Without actually compiling all the quotes, in ADWD there is a sequence in the fighting pits where Knights fight mounted Dothraki which reaks of foreshadowing for how their conflict will go in Westeros. I believe there was also a sequence in an ASOS Arya chapter involving a horsehead boat making a turbulent journey across a river that was assessed as representing Dany's journey across the narrow sea with the Dothraki. There was some stuff in the TWOW spoiler chapters involving some blatant foreshadowing for the 2nd Dance of the Dragons war that has some Dothraki themes to it (I think anyway, it was an Arianne that I haven't read in over a year).

There was also an outline released recently for Martin's original vision for this series that bluntly stated he intended the Dothraki to invade Westeros under Dany's leadership. Granted a lot of things from that outline have changed, but the major themes he intended for the 3 book plan he originally had seem the same. Book 1= Lannister and Stark fighting, Book 2= Dothraki invasion leading to a Dance of the Dragons, Book3= War with the Others.

Then there is just common sense in it....Dany is going to be at war with Aegon, this is basically 100% confirmed. For that she will need an army, and all signs point to that army being made of Dothraki. If they all drowned before landing....well, dragons or no that would make for one shitty war. It's highly implausible she would just find a native Westerosi army to fight for her,

But most of all...Martin has spent a hell of a lot of time prepping Dany to become the Khal of Khals, god only knows how many chapters in TWOW he will dedicate to her assuming control of them and then leading them through Essos. If he really intended for them all to just drown and Dany to happen upon a native Westerosi to fight for her against Aegon, he sure would have wasted a lot of time on this whole Dothraki arc, He could have saved a ton of time and just had her fly to Westeros and assume control of an army instead of makiing her go through the process of winning over the Dothraki and then marching/sailing them across the world. To just drown them wouldn't just be irony, it would be horrible writing.

You've convinced me. You make sense, they can't all drown. Maybe some of them will. Maybe it seems inevitable that she takes Westeros by storm (dragons + Ironborn + Unsullied + companies) but then she loses half her army at sea and that makes the subsequent battles more interesting.

Regarding the Aegon thing, how was it confirmed?

[joluoto2]

Dothraki don't tend to conquer place though. Just burn them to the ground.

[GoT_Academy]

Dothraki don't tend to conquer place though. Just burn them to the ground.

It could change though, as it did for the Mongols when they were united by the Khan/Khal.

[Singer's stew]

It could change though, as it did for the Mongols when they were united by the Khan/Khal.

Daenerys is not Genghis Khan, and dothraki arent mongols. That was proven in countless posts and I will burn mine ASOIAF books if GRRM will pull off something like this.

[GoT_Academy]

Daenerys is not Genghis Khan, and dothraki arent mongols. That was proven in countless posts and I will burn mine ASOIAF books if GRRM will pull off something like this.

"The Dothraki are partially based on the Huns and the Mongols, some extent the steppe tribes like the Alvars and Magyars. I put in a few elements of the Amerindian plains tribes and those peoples, and then I threw in some purely fantasy elements. It's fantasy."

"Are they barbaric? Yeah, but the Mongols were, too. Genghis Khan — I just saw an interesting movie about Ghengis Khan, recently. I've read books about Genghis Khan, and he's one of history’s more fascinating, charismatic characters. The Mongols became very sophisticated at certain points, but they were certainly not sophisticated when they started out, and even at the height of their sophistication they were fond of doing things like giant piles of heads."

(GRRM)

http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-answers-our-toughest-song-of-ice-and-886133300

[Ser Wun Wun]

You've convinced me. You make sense, they can't all drown. Maybe some of them will. Maybe it seems inevitable that she takes Westeros by storm (dragons + Ironborn + Unsullied + companies) but then she loses half her army at sea and that makes the subsequent battles more interesting.

Regarding the Aegon thing, how was it confirmed?

Some of them will die for sure. The GC lost men crossing the Narrow Sea as well I believe, no reason to think Dany won't as well. Just not all them, she will still have enough to field an army.

Regarding Aegon, I guess "confirmed" is too strong a word....always is with foreshadowing. But man, even without compiling the quotes it would be difficult to off the top of my head point you towards all the foreshadowing indicating Dany vs Aegon. There is so much of it. I just googled and this is a thread that popped up on the topic. I skimmed it and there are several posts in there that point out most of the foreshadowing:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113381-adod-20-aegon-vs-dany-not-likely/

EDIT:

"The Dothraki are partially based on the Huns and the Mongols, some extent the steppe tribes like the Alvars and Magyars. I put in a few elements of the Amerindian plains tribes and those peoples, and then I threw in some purely fantasy elements. It's fantasy."

"Are they barbaric? Yeah, but the Mongols were, too. Genghis Khan — I just saw an interesting movie about Ghengis Khan, recently. I've read books about Genghis Khan, and he's one of history’s more fascinating, charismatic characters. The Mongols became very sophisticated at certain points, but they were certainly not sophisticated when they started out, and even at the height of their sophistication they were fond of doing things like giant piles of heads."

(GRRM)

http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-answers-our-toughest-song-of-ice-and-886133300

Oh wow, excellent quote mate. I haven't read that interview yet, but that quote is fantastic. Should really put an end to the whole Dothraki are not Mongols debate. GRRM clearly thinks they are similar.

Edit 2: LOL, I just noticed that article is 2 years old....so I guess it won't be ending the Dothraki and Mongols debate :drunk:

[Universal Sword Donor]

Some of them will die for sure. The GC lost men crossing the Narrow Sea as well I believe, no reason to think Dany won't as well. Just not all them, she will still have enough to field an army.

Regarding Aegon, I guess "confirmed" is too strong a word....always is with foreshadowing. But man, even without compiling the quotes it would be difficult to off the top of my head point you towards all the foreshadowing indicating Dany vs Aegon. There is so much of it. I just googled and this is a thread that popped up on the topic. I skimmed it and there are several posts in there that point out most of the foreshadowing:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113381-adod-20-aegon-vs-dany-not-likely/

EDIT:

Oh wow, excellent quote mate. I haven't read that interview yet, but that quote is fantastic. Should really put an end to the whole Dothraki are not Mongols debate. GRRM clearly thinks they are similar.

Edit 2: LOL, I just noticed that article is 2 years old....so I guess it won't be ending the Dothraki and Mongols debate :drunk:

In general, though, while I do draw inspiration from history, I try to avoid direct one-for-one transplants, whether of individuals or of entire cultures. Just as it not correct to say that Robert was Henry VIII or Edward IV,In general, though, while I do draw inspiration from history, I try to avoid direct one-for-one transplants, whether of individuals or of entire cultures. Just as it not correct to say that Robert was Henry VIII or Edward IV, it would not be correct to say that the Dothraki are Mongols.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/263800.html?thread=15365240#t15365240

[John Doe]

That they are not mongols doesn't mean they won't found an empire though.

[sleath56]

Oh wow, excellent quote mate. I haven't read that interview yet, but that quote is fantastic. Should really put an end to the whole Dothraki are not Mongols debate. GRRM clearly thinks they are similar.

Just because GRRM thinks they are doesn't mean it's true. Relating the Dothraki to the Mongols is an insult to the Mongols.

[Ser Wun Wun]

In general, though, while I do draw inspiration from history, I try to avoid direct one-for-one transplants, whether of individuals or of entire cultures. Just as it not correct to say that Robert was Henry VIII or Edward IV,In general, though, while I do draw inspiration from history, I try to avoid direct one-for-one transplants, whether of individuals or of entire cultures. Just as it not correct to say that Robert was Henry VIII or Edward IV, it would not be correct to say that the Dothraki are Mongols.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/263800.html?thread=15365240#t15365240

Technically I didn't say the Dothraki ARE Mongols, I said GRRM clearly thinks they are similar. At least relative to the stage they were at are before Gengis Khan took them over. That much is true and frankly undeniable. He outright says it in the quote provided. And in the quote you provided he also says :

"The Dothraki were actually fashioned as an amalgam of a number of steppe and plains cultures... Mongols and Huns, certainly, but also Alans, Sioux, Cheyenne, and various other Amerindian tribes"

So again, here he is acknowledging the strong mongol (and other steppe cultures) influence on how he developed the Dothraki. He is also pointing out, as he has done in many other interviews, that he doesn't do direct one to one correlations. So we can't look at the war of the roses and figure out how the series ends and whatnot. We can't say the Dothraki are Mongols in the same sense that we can't say the Lannisters and Starks are the Yorks and Lancasters. This is a technically true statement...but we can still see the strong correlations between them.

That they are not mongols doesn't mean they won't found an empire though.

I agree. Dany is clearly being set up to unite the Dorthaki, whether this leads to them conquering any Free Cities and laying down roots ala the Mongols under Genghis Khan is up in the air though. After Dany leaves them for Westeros they might very well just go back to their old nomadic ways. Personally I think Dany's conquering will have permanently changed the face of Essos, but that's just my take on it. Everything from slavery to the Dothraki could just return to its status quo once Dany leaves, I suspect not however.

Just because GRRM thinks they are doesn't mean it's true. Relating the Dothraki to the Mongols is an insult to the Mongols.

LOL, ok. Debate settled then. The Authors word on where he drew inspiration for the Dothraki is worthless. Gotcha.

[Ser Beefheart]

The Dothraki are Mongols in the same way that the Iron Born are vikings, Wildlings are Picts and the Dornish are Andalusians.

That is to say that you can see which group in history was the primary inspiration but there is also a ton of other elements mixed in so it isn't a 1:1 adaptation of a real world culture.

[Ser Beefheart]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if in some early draft Daenerys was meant to kill Khal Drogo for the death of her brother in an echo of the death of Attila the Hun in the poetic Edda. In the Edda Attila is married to a Burgundian princess. He betrays and kills his wife's brothers and she later takes revenge on him by serving him their sons at a feast and then murdering him and burning his hall.

It's also not unlikely that Drogo was meant to remind people of Genghis Khan in order to make the readers assume we are going to see the Dothraki cross the narrow sea and conquer Westeros for Daenerys and therefore be more surprised when he suddenly dies from an infected scratch.

[Pashernate Reader]

If they were going to they'd have done it a long, long time ago. They aren't looking for an empire. They're just in it for the lulz.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if in some early draft Daenerys was meant to kill Khal Drogo for the death of her brother in an echo of the death of Attila the Hun in the poetic Edda. In the Edda Attila is married to a Burgundian princess. He betrays and kills his wife's brothers and she later takes revenge on him by serving him their sons at a feast and then murdering him and burning his hall.

It's also not unlikely that Drogo was meant to remind people of Genghis Khan in order to make the readers assume we are going to see the Dothraki cross the narrow sea and conquer Westeros for Daenerys and therefore be more surprised when he suddenly dies from an infected scratch.

She was meant to do that at one point actually. There was an outline released a few months back that has her killing Drogo to revenge her brothers murder at his hands. She then flees into the Wastes with some friends and births the dragons, only to later return and take charge of the Dothraki and lead them to invade Westeros.

[GoT_Academy]

In general, though, while I do draw inspiration from history, I try to avoid direct one-for-one transplants, whether of individuals or of entire cultures. Just as it not correct to say that Robert was Henry VIII or Edward IV,In general, though, while I do draw inspiration from history, I try to avoid direct one-for-one transplants, whether of individuals or of entire cultures. Just as it not correct to say that Robert was Henry VIII or Edward IV, it would not be correct to say that the Dothraki are Mongols.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/263800.html?thread=15365240#t15365240

Of course the Dothraki are not the Mongols, they are the Dothraki.