[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XIV - North remembers

[Mladen]

Welcome to the 14th version of Discussing Sansa thread.

Before we start, please remember the forum's policy about discussing rape and allow me to remind everyone that the debate should be conducted in the civil manner without personalizing debate or offending others.

So, after the very hot debate, we have finally arrived where we thought we won't be seeing Sansa any time soon. In short, Sansa Stark has been offered to Ramsay Bolton. Ms. Stark arrives in Winterfell only to hear that North remembers

The conclusion is clear. Welcome to the uncharted territory where book spoilers alert means as much as Lannister word.

[Christi84]

Its weird and makes no sense, but is very exciting. Once they showed that side shot of Myranda, it seems to me that Sansa's 'traumatic' scene wont be to her, but she will see or be responsible for someone's harm, most likely Myranda. I think we will see Sansa manipulate Ramsay to punish Myranda as much as she can.

But you can just feel from that look, she's gonna kill Roose. That could be her traumatic scene as well, the way she kills him.

I cant wait for her to see Theon. She knows of his betrayal and most likely knows of her little brothers being murdered by him (though Ramsay and Roose know theyre alive)

It still makes no sense for Littlefinger to not be informed of Ramsay's behavior as everyone in the North knows all about it, and for him to take her away from the safety of the Vale. I just dont see his endgame

[Ser Creighton]

Well the North may remember, but it would appear D&D have forgotten a few things from the books. Like you know the stories in the books.

I don't have much else to say for now, other than sometimes everyone takes a beating, and it appears it is time for the ASOIAF series to take the beating that D&D seem set on giving it. I am not really enjoying the show, it's ok, sort of. But there are much better things to watch at this point, I hope it picks up and I hope the Sansa story makes some sense at some point on the show. The whole avenge them plan, does not exactly feel well thought out, or well written at this point.

You want to trust a Stark with people who clearly can't be trusted, you want to expose Sansa and yourself to the Boltons because hey why not. I imagined Sansa would have something to do with the North later in the series, but clearly nothing like this. I doubt she ever meetss the Boltons considering what is currently going on on the books. So really Sansa is not Sansa on the show, because we already know this has nothing to do with her story in the books.

[Rex999]

The moment the words "the north remembers" came out of that old lady's mouth

I went from not being sure about sansa's story to "now I wanna see where all of this is all going" lol

D&D you now have my attention

[Another Locust]

I'm going to play it safe and assume that this is invented material. Because the books didn't seem to lead up to this plot line whatsoever, but who knows what'll happen.

Anyway, I personally believe that this is yet another plot to overthrow the Boltons. We all know that the Starks are quite good at ensuring loyalty, and nothing says loyalty than the "surviving" daughter of Ned Stark. I just hope that things don't go badly.

[Good Guy Garlan]

It makes absolutely no sense that LF didn't have a background check on Ramsay, especially because in the show it's been established ad nauseam that he has spies everywhere and gets off learning other people's secrets. And Ramsay's been apparently flaying noble families left and right, so why didn't LF hear rumors about this?

Unless of course, he doesn't care about Sansa and he's only interested in an alliance with the Boltons as a plan B now that the Lannister ship seems to be sinking. But that's not the case at all, since it appears he really does care about Sansa.

[Another Locust]

It makes absolutely no sense that LF didn't have a background check on Ramsay, especially because in the show it's been established ad nauseam that he has spies everywhere and gets off learning other people's secrets. And Ramsay's been apparently flaying noble families left and right, so why didn't LF hear rumors about this?

It's possible (and likely) that he does know about Ramsay, but he's hiding it so that Ramsay believes that he has some momentum, so to speak. LF's "ignorance" could also urge Ramsay to at least attempt to behave himself in order to not make a bad impression, which would be good for everyone. Unfortunately, I find that unlikely. The fresh pile of flayed corpses displaced any possibility of a clean slate.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Well, that interview reassured me that Sansa won't get the Jeyne treatment and that Myranda's name choice was something they had planned all along, so, we most likely will see something related to that. Especially since they referenciated Sansa's sub-plot with Harry, the character not cast on the show. I'm feeling more safe about this.

[Jasta11]

It makes absolutely no sense that LF didn't have a background check on Ramsay, especially because in the show it's been established ad nauseam that he has spies everywhere and gets off learning other people's secrets. And Ramsay's been apparently flaying noble families left and right, so why didn't LF hear rumors about this?

Unless of course, he doesn't care about Sansa and he's only interested in an alliance with the Boltons as a plan B now that the Lannister ship seems to be sinking. But that's not the case at all, since it appears he really does care about Sansa.

Or he could just be Littlefinger and feigning ignorance, and ultimately not care as much about Sansa as we might think at face value. I say let's see where this plotline goes, it's only the third episode, we don't know the ramifications yet.

[Good Guy Garlan]

It's possible (and likely) that he does know about Ramsay, but he's hiding it so that Ramsay believes that he has some momentum, so to speak. LF's "ignorance" could also urge Ramsay to at least attempt to behave himself in order to not make a bad impression, which would be good for everyone. Unfortunately, I find that unlikely. The fresh pile of flayed corpses displaced any possibility of a clean slate.

Yeah, exactly, they were decorating the walls with freaking "Silent Hill" enemies, how did LF miss that? Unless they were actually taking the bodies away, but in any case, LF is totally one to use Ramsay's ways as leverage against Roose, like, "And by the way, if your psychopath of a son hurts Sansa, I will set the Vale on your ass faster than you can say Loosey Roosey, you poor man's Daniel Craig!"

[Rex999]

It makes absolutely no sense that LF didn't have a background check on Ramsay, especially because in the show it's been established ad nauseam that he has spies everywhere and gets off learning other people's secrets. And Ramsay's been apparently flaying noble families left and right, so why didn't LF hear rumors about this?

Unless of course, he doesn't care about Sansa and he's only interested in an alliance with the Boltons as a plan B now that the Lannister ship seems to be sinking. But that's not the case at all, since it appears he really does care about Sansa.

Even if LF knows about Ramsay why would he tell that to Sansa?

He is trying to get her to go along with his plan not scare her away

[Another Locust]

Well, that interview reassured me that Sansa won't get the Jeyne treatment and that Myranda's name choice was something they had planned all along, so, we most likely will see something related to that.

The ideas that popped into my brain were not pleasant when I read that sentence. #TroubleInWinterfell

[vyshan]

Well that interview made me somewhat better. But yea I am both nervous and exicted about this.

[Hath4]

Well, that interview reassured me that Sansa won't get the Jeyne treatment and that Myranda's name choice was something they had planned all along, so, we most likely will see something related to that. Especially since they referenciated Sansa's sub-plot with Harry, the character not cast on the show. I'm feeling more safe about this.

the reference was to jeyne not harry.

[Another Locust]

When LF and Sansa were looking at Moat Cailin, I was yelling at the TV, begging Sansa to give LF a good old shove. She didn't listen.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

the reference was to jeyne not harry.

Yeah, I thought I had read something about the Vale. I'm still interested in seeing where this is going to go.

[Grail King]

When LF and Sansa were looking at Moat Cailin, I was yelling at the TV, begging Sansa to give LF a good old shove. She didn't listen.

Can she trust those Arryns? maybe not, she's pissed though you can see it in her eyes, facial and body expressions.

And she is in the middle of the North and there is a 50/50 chance of getting in a worst situation.

[Colonel Green]

Well, that interview reassured me that Sansa won't get the Jeyne treatment

If you're referring to this:

That all said, just because the writers are mining another character’s storylline for Sansa, it doesn’t mean what happens next on HBO’s series will be the same as it was for that other character in the books. So while Martin’s fans might think they now know where Sansa’s story is headed, the showrunners could have more twists planned.

That really doesn't appear to be anything other than the writer's speculation.

As to the episode itself, this whole direction has already been debated extensively all around the internet. On a plot level, I'll say it's tremendously forced, and the writers, who have never been noted for subtlety, around walking a very fine line here.

But on the subject of writer choices, having seen now three episodes of this season, I really don't understand why the writers had Sansa 'get one over' on Littlefinger last year, and ended with the indication that she'd be trying to 'play' him by using her awareness that he's attracted to her. Because that hasn't been the case at all; Littlefinger's been leading Sansa around by the nose the whole time, and she basically just does whatever he says. Now, this isn't actually all that different from her current position in the books, but it's very different from where they indicated the show was going to take the characters last year, and it just make 408 look very odd since its suggested dynamic has totally failed to materialize.

[voodooqueen126]

I wonder what the significance of calling Ramsay's girlfriend after Myranda Royce. I quite like Myranda (being sexually liberated and friendly to other women), but there a few people on the boards who don't like her.

[Grail King]

I wonder what the significance of calling Ramsay's girlfriend after Myranda Royce. I quite like Myranda (being sexually liberated and friendly to other women), but there a few people on the boards who don't like her.

I don't trust Myranda Royce, and her quips to Alayne in the gift chapter just enforce it to me.