148 replies to this topic

[Jojen]

Zar Lannister, on 14 August 2011 - 01:33 PM, said:

Anyone has an idea of how exactly R'hllor is pronounced?
Arya said it sounded like Ruler for her somewhere in a Feast of Crows...

I don't try to pronounce it. I just call it Red Rhalloo like that wildling does in ADWD. I forget which one it was. Tormund, maybe?

[Milgod morghulis]

In the show there seem to be different ways of saying Arya.

I have always said Ar-Ya as do many on the show. However, Arya calls herself Ar-ee-a.

I have seen some people on here call Jamie   -   Jay-M. I'm not sure where that came from. Surely it is one of the easiest names in the whole series.

I don't like the Tar-gar-yen idea. Tar-gar-ee-en for me (or something similar).

[CrypticWeirwood]

<p>Here’s a list of <em>A Song of Ice and Fire</em> terms with accompanying pronunciations given using standard phonetics (IPA) instead of in dodgy pseudo‐spellings. They are meant to be  both self‐consistent and easy to pronounce for English speakers — if they are Westeros names, that is: the further across the Narrow Sea, the harder. See the notes following the list for what sorts of assumptions I’m making in transcribing the written spellings into their spoken phonetics. This is meant to be fairly tight phonetic transcription reflecting actual sounds, not a broad phonemic one; hence the square brackets instead of slashes. Sometimes variants are given for different speakers or accents. I will add more as I come to them.</p>
<ul class="bbc">
<li>Aegon — [ˈeɪgən]</li>
<li>Aegor —  [ˈeɪgɔɹ]</li>
<li>Aemon — [ˈeɪmən]</li>
<li>Aenar —  [ˈeɪnɑɹ]</li>
<li>Aerion — [ˈeɪɹiən]</li>
<li>Aeron — [ˈeɪɹən]</li>
<li>Aerys — [ˈeɪɹɨs]</li>
<li>Alayne — [əˈleɪn]</li>
<li>Allyria — [əˈliːɹiə]</li>
<li>Alys — [ˈælɨs]</li>
<li>Alysane — [ˈælɨsən]</li>
<li>Amerei —  [ˈæm(ə)ɹeɪ]</li>
<li>Archmaester — [ˈɒːɹt͡ʃmeɪstɚ]</li>
<li>Arianne — [eɪɹiˈæn]</li>
<li>Arryn — [ˈeɪɹɨn]</li>
<li>Arya — [ˈɒːɹjə], [ˈɒɹiə]</li>
<li>Arys — [ˈeɪɹɨs]</li>
<li>Asha — [æˈʃə]</li>
<li>Ashara — [əˈʃɒɹə]</li>
<li>Asshaii — [əˈʃɒɪ]</li>
<li>Asshai'i — [əˈʃɒʔiː]</li>
<li>Astapor — [ˈæstəpɔɹ]</li>
<li>Aurane — [ˈɔːɹən]</li>
<li>Ayrmidon — [ˈeɪɹmɨdɒn]</li>
<li>Azor Ahai — [əˈzɔɹ əˈhaɪ]</li>
<li>Baelish — [ˈbeɪlɨʃ]</li>
<li>Baelor — [ˈbeɪlɔɹ]</li>
<li>Balerion — [bəˈleɹiən]</li>
<li>Balon — [ˈbeɪlən]</li>
<li>Baratheon — [bəˈɹæθiən]</li>
<li>Barristan Selmy — [ˈbeɹɨstən ˈsɛɫmi]</li>
<li>Bellegere Otherys — [ˈbɛlɨgiːɹ ɔˈθeɹɨs]</li>
<li>Bolton — [ˈboʊɫtən]</li>
<li>Braavos — [ˈbɹɒːvos]</li>
<li>Bran — [ˈbɹæn]</li>
<li>Brienne — [bɹaɪˈɛn], [bɹiˈɛn]</li>
<li>Brynden — [ˈbɹɪndən]</li>
<li>Catelyn Tully — [ˈkʰæt(ə)lɨn ˈtʰʌli]</li>
<li>Celtigar —  [ˈkɛɫtɨgɑɹ] , [ˈkɛɫtɨgɚ]</li>
<li>Cersei — [ˈsɝseɪ], [ˈsɝsiː]</li>
<li>Cerwyn — [ˈkeɪɹwɨn]</li>
<li>Chataya — [ʃəˈtajə]</li>
<li>Clegane — [kʰlɨˈgeɪn]</li>
<li>Cleos — [ˈkʰliɔs]</li>
<li>Colloquo Votar — [ˈkʰɔːləkwoʊ ˈvoʊtɒɹ]</li>
<li>crannog — [ˈkʰɹænəɡ]</li>
<li>Craster — [ˈkʰɹæstɚ]</li>
<li>cyvasse — [sɨˈvɒːs]</li>
<li>Daario Naharys — [ˈdɒːɹioʊ nəˈheɹɨs]</li>
<li>Daemon — [ˈdeɪmən]</li>
<li>Daena — [ˈdeɪnə]</li>
<li>Daenerys — [deɪˈneɹɨs]</li>
<li>Daeron — [ˈdeɪɹən]</li>
<li>Dany — [ˈdæni]</li>
<li>Davos — [ˈdævos]</li>
<li>Dayne — [ˈdeɪn]</li>
<li>Donal Noye — [ˈdɔnəɫ ˈnɔɪ]</li>
<li>Doran — [ˈdɔɹən]</li>
<li>dosh khaleen — [ˈd̪oʃ kʰaˈliːn]</li>
<li>Dothraki — [d̪oˈθɾaki]</li>
<li>Drogo — [ˈd̪ɾogo]</li>
<li>Drogon — [ˈdɹoʊgɒn]</li>
<li>Dywin — [ˈdaɪwɨn]</li>
<li>Elaena — [ɛˈleɪnə]</li>
<li>Eleyna — [ɛˈleɪnə]</li>
<li>Elia — [ˈɛliə]</li>
<li>Essos — [ˈɛsos], [ˈiːsɔs]</li>
<li>Euron — [ˈjuːɹɒn]</li>
<li>Eyrie — [ˈiːɹi]</li>
<li>Frey — [ˈfɹeɪ]</li>
<li>Gendry — [ˈgɛndɹi]</li>
<li>Genna — [ˈdʒɛnə]</li>
<li>Gerion — [ˈgeɪɹiən]</li>
<li>Gerris — [ˈgɛɹɨs]</li>
<li>Ghiscari — [ɣɪʃˈkaɾi]</li>
<li>Ghys — [ˈgiːs], [ˈɣis]</li>
<li>Gilly — [ˈgɪli]</li>
<li>Grazdan mo Eraz — [ˈgɾɑʒd̪ən mɵ eˈɾɑːʒ]</li>
<li>Gregor — [ˈgɹɛgɔɹ], [ˈgɹɛgɚ]</li>
<li>Gyles — [ˈdʒaɪlz]</li>
<li>Harghaz — [harˈɣɑːʒ]</li>
<li>Hizdahr zo Loraq — [ˈhɪʒd̪ɑːr zɵ lɔˈɾɑːχ]</li>
<li>Hodor — [ˈhoʊdɔɹ]</li>
<li>Hoster —  [ˈhɔstɚ]</li>
<li>Illyrio Mopatis — [ɪˈliːɹioʊ moʊˈpɒtɨs], [iˈliːɾio  moˈpatis]</li>
<li>Ilyn Payne — [ˈɪlɨn ˈpʰeɪn]</li>
<li>Jaehaerys — [d͡ʒeɪˈheɪɹɨs]</li>
<li>Jaime — [ˈd͡ʒeɪmi] as in English <em>Jamie</em>, <strong><em>not</em></strong> [ˈxaɪme] as in Spanish <em>Jaime</em></li>
<li>Jalabhar Xho — [ˈd͡ʒɒləbɚ ˈʃoʊ]</li>
<li>Janos Slynt — [ˈd͡ʒænəs ˈslint], [ˈd͡ʒɒnɔs ˈslint]</li>
<li>Jaqen H'ghar — [ˈd͡ʒɒxɨn həˈɣaːɾ]</li>
<li>Jeine Poole — [ˈd͡ʒeɪn ˈpʰuːɫ], <strong><em>not</em></strong> [ˈd͡ʒiːni ˈpʰuːɫ]</li>
<li>Jeor — [ˈd͡ʒɔɹ]</li>
<li>Jhaqo — [ˈd͡ʒako]</li>
<li>Jhiqui — [ˈd͡ʒiːkwi]</li>
<li>Jhogo — [ˈd͡ʒogo]</li>
<li>Joffrey — [ˈd͡ʒɔːfɹi]</li>
<li>Jojen — [ˈd͡ʒoʊd͡ʒən]</li>
<li>Jorah — [ˈd͡ʒɔɹə]</li>
<li>Joramun —  [ˈd͡ʒɔɹəmən]</li>
<li>Jyana — [d͡ʒaɪˈænə], [d͡ʒiˈɒnə]</li>
<li>Kevan — [ˈkʰɛvən]</li>
<li>Khaleesi — [ˈkʰaliːsi]</li>
<li>Khal — [ˈkʰaːɫ]</li>
<li>Khorane Sathmantes — [kʰɔˈɹeɪn sɐðˈmantes]</li>
<li>Khyzai — [ˈkʰaɪzaɪ]</li>
<li>Kojja Mo — [ˈkʰɔːd͡ʒ ˈmoʊ]</li>
<li>Kraznys mo Nakloz — [ˈkʰrɑːʒnɨʃ mɵ nəˈkɫoːʒ]</li>
<li>Kurz — [ˈkɝːts]</li>
<li>Lannister — [ˈlænɨstɚ]</li>
<li>Lemore — [ləˈmɔɹ]</li>
<li>Lhazar — [ləˈzɑːɹ], [ɬəˈzɑːɾ]</li>
<li>Lollys — [ˈlɔlɨs]</li>
<li>Lomas —  [ˈloʊməs]</li>
<li>Loras Tyrell — [ˈlɔɹəs tʰaɪˈɹɛɫ]</li>
<li>Loreza Sand — [lɔˈɹeɪzə ˈsænd]</li>
<li>Lotho Lornel — [ˈlɔːθoʊ ˈlɔɹnəɫ]</li>
<li>Lucion — [ˈluʃən]</li>
<li>Lyanna — [liˈænə]</li>
<li>Lysa — [ˈlʌɪsə], [ˈlaɪzə]</li>
<li>Lys — [ˈlɪs]</li>
<li>Maege — [ˈmædʒ]</li>
<li>Maegor — [ˈmeɪgɔɹ]</li>
<li>Maelys — [ˈmeɪlɨs]</li>
<li>maester — [ˈmeɪstɚ]</li>
<li>Mance Raidar —[ˈmæns ˈɹeɪdɒɹ],  [ˈmæns ˈɹeɪdɚ]</li>
<li>Manderly — [ˈmændɚli]</li>
<li>Margaery — [ˈmɑɹdʒəɹi], [ˈmɑɹgəɹi]</li>
<li>Marghaz zo Loraq — [marˈɣɑːʒ zɵ lɔˈɾɑːχ]</li>
<li>Marillion — [məˈɹɪljən]</li>
<li>Marwyn  — [ˈmɑɹwɨn]</li>
<li>Matarys — [məˈtæɹɨs], [məˈtɒɹɨs]</li>
<li>Meera — [ˈmiːɹə]</li>
<li>Meizo Mahr — [ˈmeɪzoʊ ˈmɑɹ]</li>
<li>Mellisandre — [ˌmɛlɨˈsɒndɹ̩]</li>
<li>Meraxes — [məˈɹæksiːs]</li>
<li>Mhaegan — [ˈmʲeɪgən]</li>
<li>Mirri dur Maz — [ˈmiri duɾ ˈmɒz]</li>
<li>Missandei — [mɨˈsɒndeɪ], [mɨˈsɒndi]</li>
<li>Moat Cailin — [ˌmoʊt ˈkeɪlɨn]</li>
<li>Moqorro — [mɵˈkɔːɹoʊ]</li>
<li>Moredo Prestayn — [moˈɹeɪdoʊ pɹɛsˈteɪn]</li>
<li>Mormont — [ˈmɔɹmɒnt]</li>
<li>Mya — [ˈmaɪjə]</li>
<li>Mycah — [ˈmʌɪkə]</li>
<li>Myrcella — [mɚˈsɛlə]</li>
<li>Myr — [ˈmiːɹ]</li>
<li>Naerys — [ˈneɪɹɨs]</li>
<li>Nage — [ˈnaːgə]</li>
<li>niello — [niˈɛloʊ]</li>
<li>Nymeria — [nɨˈmeɹiə], [naɪˈmiːɹiə]</li>
<li>Obara — [oʊˈbɒɹə]</li>
<li>Oberyn Martell — [ˈoʊb(ə)ɹɨn mɒɹˈtɛɫ]</li>
<li>Oleanna — [oʊliˈænə]</li>
<li>Osfryd — [ˈɔːsfɹiːd]</li>
<li>Osha —  [ˈɔːʃə]</li>
<li>Ossifer — [ˈɔːsɨfɚ]</li>
<li>Pentos — [ˈpʰɛntɔs]</li>
<li>Perra Frey — [ˈbɪt͡ʃ ˈfɹeɪ]</li>
<li>Petyr — [ˈpʰiːtɚ]</li>
<li>Prendahl na Ghezn — [pɾɛnˈd̪ɒːɫ nə ˈɣɛʒn̩]</li>
<li>Pyat Pree — [ˈpʰɒt ˈpʰɹiː]</li>
<li>Pycelle — [pʰaɪˈsɛɫ]</li>
<li>Qarro Volentin — [ˈkʰɒːɹoʊ vɵˈlɛntɨn],  [ˈkʰaro voˈlẽ̞n̪t̪ĩn]</li>
<li>Qarth — [ˈkʰaɹθ]</li>
<li>Qohor — [kʰoʊˈhɔr]</li>
<li>Qorgyle — [ˈkʰɔɹgaɪɫ]</li>
<li>Qos — [ˈkʰɔːʃ]</li>
<li>Quaithe — [ˈkʰweɪð]</li>
<li>Quentyn — [ˈkʰwɛntɨn]</li>
<li>Quhuru Mo — [kʰᵿˈhʊːɹᵿ ˈmoʊ]</li>
<li>Qyburn — [ˈkʰaɪbɚn]</li>
<li>Raimar Royce — [ˈɹeɪmɒɹ ˈɹɔɪs],  [ˈɹeɪmɚ ˈɹɔɪs]</li>
<li>Rakharo — [ɹəˈkɒːɹoʊ], [raˈkaɾo]</li>
<li>Ramsay — [ˈɹæmzi]</li>
<li>Randyll — [ˈɹændəɫ]</li>
<li>Reek — [ˈɹiːk]</li>
<li>Renly —  [ˈɹɛnli]</li>
<li>Rhaegal —[ˈɹʷeɪgəɫ]</li>
<li>Rhaegar —[ˈɹʷeɪgɑɹ],  [ˈɹʷeɪgɚ]</li>
<li>Rhaelle — [ˈɹʷeɪɫ]</li>
<li>Rhaena — [ˈɹʷeɪnə]</li>
<li>Rhaenys — [ˈɹʷeɪnɨs]</li>
<li>R’hllor —  [ɹʷəˈlɔɹ], [ʀəˈɬoʀ]</li>
<li>Rhysling — [ˈɹʷiːzliŋ]</li>
<li>Rickard — [ˈɹɪkɚd]</li>
<li>Rickon — [ˈɹɪkən]</li>
<li>Roose — [ˈɹuːs]</li>
<li>Rory — [ˈɹɔɹi]</li>
<li>Rugen — [ˈɹuːgən]</li>
<li>Ryman — [ˈɹaɪmən]</li>
<li>Salladhor Saan — [ˈsæləðɔɹ ˈsaːn]</li>
<li>Sallei Paege — [ˈsæli ˈpeɪd͡ʒ]</li>
<li>Sandor — [ˈsændɔɹ], [ˈsændɚ]</li>
<li>Sansa — [ˈsɒnzə]</li>
<li>Selyse — [s(ə)ˈliːz]</li>
<li>ser — [ˈsɝː]</li>
<li>Serra — [ˈseɹə]</li>
<li>Shae — [ˈʃeɪ]</li>
<li>Shireen — [ʃɨˈɹiːn]</li>
<li>Skagos — [ˈskægɵs]</li>
<li>Skahazadhan — [ʃkɒˈhɑʒəðɒn], [skəˈhɒzədən]</li>
<li>Skahaz mo Kandaq — [ʃkəˈhɑːʒ mɵ kʰənˈdɑːχ]</li>
<li>Stannis — [ˈstænɨs]</li>
<li>Sybel — [ˈsaɪbəɫ]</li>
<li>Syrio Forel — [ˈsiːɹioʊ fɵˈɹɛɫ],  [ˈsiɾio foˈɾɛl]</li>
<li>Taena — [ˈtʰeɪna]</li>
<li>Targaryen — [tʰɒɹˈgeɪɹjɨn], [tʰaɾˈgæɾiən]</li>
<li>Theon — [ˈθiːɒn]</li>
<li>Thoros — [ˈθɔːɹos]</li>
<li>Tobho Mott — [ˈtʰɔbɵ ˈmɒt]</li>
<li>tokar — [ˈtʰokaɾ]</li>
<li>Tommen — [ˈtʰɔːmən], [ˈtʰoʊmən]</li>
<li>Tormund — [ˈtʰɔːɹmʌnd]</li>
<li>Torrhen Stark — [ˈtʰɔːɹən ˈstɒɹk]</li>
<li>Trystane Martell — [ˈtɹɪstən mɒɹˈtɛɫ]</li>
<li>Tycho Nestoris — [ˈtʰʌikoʊ nɛsˈtɔɹɨs]</li>
<li>Tyene — [ˈtʰaɪn], [ˈtʰiːən]</li>
<li>Tygette — [ˈtʰaɪgɨt]</li>
<li>Tyrek — [ˈtʰaɪɹɛk]</li>
<li>Tyrell — [tʰaɪˈɹɛɫ]</li>
<li>Tyrion — [ˈtʰiːɹiən]</li>
<li>Tyrosh — [tʰɨˈɹɔʃ]</li>
<li>Tysha — [ˈtʰɪʃə]</li>
<li>Tytos — [ˈtʰʌɪtɵs]</li>
<li>Tywin — [ˈtʰaɪwɨn]</li>
<li>Umber — [ˈʌmbɚ]</li>
<li>Urrigon — [ˈuɹəgən], [ˈuːɹɨgɒn]</li>
<li>Vaes Dothrak — [ˈvaɪz d̪ɵˈθɾaːk]</li>
<li>Valyria — [vəˈliːɹiə]</li>
<li>Varamyr — [ˈvæɹəmɚ]</li>
<li>Varys — [ˈvæɹɨs]</li>
<li>Velaryon — [vɨˈleɹjɒn], [vɨˈlæɹiən]</li>
<li>Vhagar — [ˈveɪgɒɹ], [ˈvægɚ]</li>
<li>Visenya — [vɨˈsɛnjə]</li>
<li>Viserion — [vɨˈseɹiən]</li>
<li>Viserys — [vɨˈseɹɨs]</li>
<li>Volantis — [vɵˈlæntɨs]</li>
<li>Walder — [ˈwɔːɫdɚ]</li>
<li>wayn — [ˈweɪn]</li>
<li>Waynwood — [ˈweɪnwʊd]</li>
<li>Wendello qar Deeth — [wɛnˈdɛlo xaɾ ˈd̪iːθ]</li>
<li>Westeros — [ˈwɛstəɹos]</li>
<li>Westerosi — [ˌwɛstəˈɹoʊzi]</li>
<li>Whalen — [ˈʍeɪlən]</li>
<li>wight — [ˈwʌɪt]</li>
<li>Wylis —  [ˈwaɪlɨs]</li>
<li>Wylla — [ˈwilə]</li>
<li>Wyman — [ˈwaɪmən]</li>
<li>Xaro Xhoan Daxos — [ˈxaɾo ˈχɔan ˈd̪axoʃ]</li>
<li>Xhondo Dhoru — [ˈʃɔnd̪o ˈðoɾu]</li>
<li>Ygritte — [ɨˈgɹɪt]</li>
<li>Yohn — [ˈjɔːn]</li>
<li>Yunkai — [ˈjunkaɪ]</li>
<li>Yunkai’i — [junˈkaʔiː]</li>
<li>Zei — [ˈzeɪ]</li>
</ul>
<p><u><span style="font-size: 18px;">Notes on Transcription</span></u></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>For a translation key, see the Wikipedia pages on the <a class="bbc_url" href="http://en.wikipedia....phabet#Letters" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">International Phonetic Alphabet</a> and its <a class="bbc_url" href="http://en.wikipedia....glish_dialects" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">IPA chart for English dialects</a>, and for the Dothraki perhaps also <a class="bbc_url" href="http://es.wikipedia....ía_del_español" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">Spanish Phonology</a> and <a class="bbc_url" href="http://es.wikipedia....ñol_con_el_AFI" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">Spanish IPA transcription</a>.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have several different schemes operating here, as that seems to be what Martin is himself doing. I’ve tried to make English‐looking names sound like English, but non‐Westeros names sound foreign. The accent I’m aiming for is that of the <a class="bbc_url" href="http://en.wikipedia....erican_English" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">Inland North</a>, which is the accent from where GRRM went to university. It has, among others, these properties:</p>
<ul class="bbc">
<li>It is a <strong>rhotic</strong> accent like Scots, not a non-rhotic one like RP or Boston.</li>
<li>As in RP, it is <strong>not</strong> part of the <em>cot–caught</em> merger, so [cɒt] and [cɔt] are still distinguished and have not merged into [ɑ].</li>
<li>However, it <strong>is</strong> part of the <em>Mary–marry–merry</em> merger, so the stressed vowel is indistinguishably any of [ɛ~eɪ~e].</li>
<li>The diphthong in <em>coke</em> is [oʊ]; the diphthong in <em>cake</em> is [eɪ].</li>
<li>It has <strong>partial</strong> Canadian rising, in that [aɪ] becomes [ʌɪ] before an unvoiced consonant. However, [oʊ] is unaffected.</li>
<li>It is <strong>not</strong> part of the <em>weather–whether </em>merger, so the latter still has a distinctive ‹hw› sound, phonetically written [ʍ] to indicate an unvoiced ‹w›.</li>
</ul>
<p>You won’t find any weird sounds in the Westeros names, but there are a few non‐English sounds in the Essos names, especially from Slaver Bay. The Free Cities names tend to have a Romance Language lilt to them like Italian or Spanish (think <em>Syrio</em>), but the names from Slaver Bay are more exotic: you’re <em>supposed</em> to have a hard time with the Slaver Bay names. ;-}</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here are some more notes of my strategies:</p>
<ul class="bbc">
<li>For Westerosi words, or those pronounced in that fashion, unstressed vowels should usually reduce from their values in stressed position. I’ve used [ɨ] for the reduced ‹e› in <em>roses</em> and [ɵ] for the reduced ‹o› in  <em>Volentin</em>. It’s ok to reduce those to schwas, especially is you think <em>roses</em> and <em>Rosa’s</em> sound alike.</li>
<li>A ‹y› is usually the same as ‹i› and therefore in unstressed syllables becomes [ɪ] or [ɨ] as in English <em>funny</em> or <em>tyrannical.</em></li>
<li>In contrast, when  ‹y› is written by itself in a stressed syllable where a “long” vowel is called for, it becomes [aɪ] as in English <em>Tyler</em> or <em>tyrant</em>. However, <em>Lys</em> is just [lɪs] while <em>Myr</em> is [miːɹ], not [mɝː] or [maɪɹ].</li>
<li>There is a hard Celtic ‹c› as [k] in the obvious places: <em>Cerwyn</em>, <em>Celtigar</em>.</li>
<li>The ‹dh› digraph is [ð] as in English <em>leather</em>.</li>
<li>I take the ‹ae› digraph to mean [eɪ] instead of [ae], [aɪ], or [æ], although any of those could be made to work if done consistently.</li>
<li>I usually take the ‹ai› &amp; ‹ay› digraphs to mean [aɪ] or [eɪ].</li>
<li>The <a class="bbc_url" href="http://wiki.dothraki...raki/Phonology" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">Dothraki phonology</a> follows what we know of the constructed language created for the TV series. It works pretty much like Spanish (pure vowels, dental <em>d</em>’s and <em>t</em>’s, flag versus trilled <em>r</em>, etc) with the addition of the common English digraphs. The <em>h</em>’s are ignored in ‹kh›.</li>
<li>I am distinguishing several kinds of ‹r›: the full rolled [r] and the simple flap [ɾ] per Spanish <em>perro</em> and <em>pero</em> for some non‐Westeros names; the rhotacizations [ɝ, ɚ] as in English <em>bird</em> and <em>bother</em>; and the normal English approximant [ɹ] as in English <em>rest</em>.</li>
<li>In Westeros names I count a ‹q› without a ‹u› following it as though it were simply ‹k›, because I can’t see the uvular plosive [q] (or its fricative [χ] for ‹qh›)   making sense in a throat used to making English sounds.</li>
<li>Slaver names should be dental t’s and d’s [t̪, d̪] as in Italian or Spanish, not (denti‐)alveolar ones as in English or German.</li>
<li>I went for a Welsh [ɬ]  for ‹lh›  in foreign <em>Lhazar,</em> but left ‹rh› as a simple normal English [ɹʷ] not a rolled Welsh [r̥] in  <em>Rhaegar</em>.</li>
<li>Syllable‐final ‹s›  and ‹z›  in Slaver Bay names palatalize to [ʃ]  and [ʒ] as in Portuguese or Northern Spanish.  An apical [s̺] would also work to make it sound a bit foreign.</li>
<li>I am using a variety of back fricatives in Essos names: [x] for ‹kh› and [ɣ] for ‹gh›.</li>
<li>For the little uncapitalized and surely unstressed particle ending in <em>‑o</em> in the middle of Slaver Bay names like <em>Hizdahr <u>zo</u> Loraq</em>, I’ve reduced the vowel from a normal English [oʊ] to just [ɵ], which is a rounded schwa. One could also get by there using a simple <em>u</em> as in English <em>who</em>, <em>to</em>, or <em>do</em>.</li>
</ul>
<ul class="bbc">
<li>Although we do have phonetic mappings for Dothraki as prepared for the TV show, we have nothing at all for Gishcari names.  Martin often uses phonetically meaningless spelling variants for his names to give them a more exotic feel without changing their pronunciations, like ‹q› and ‹kh› both representing phonemic /k/, we do not know whether  that is truly what he intends here. I have therefore given the Ghiscari names an exotic feel by mapping many of these to fricatives made with the back of your mouth that don’t occur in English.</li>
<li>We have very few names of Summer Islanders: <em>Chataya, Kojja Mo, Quhuru Mo, Jalabhar Xho,</em> and <em>Xhondo Dhoru</em>. To help distinguish them a small amount from other Essos names, I have taken ‹xh› to mean /ʃ/, rather than /x/ or /χ/. I’ve also allowed them to undergo normal English vowel reduction, unlike with the non-naturalized Slaver Bay names.</li>
<li>I’ve had a tough time with <a class="bbc_url" href="http://en.wikipedia....ion_in_English" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">vowel reduction</a> in unstressed syllables, a complex topic. I’ve distinguished between [ə] and [ɨ], and sometimes [ɵ] and [ᵿ].  Martin seems to put vowels, especially diphthongs, in places that they should normally reduce. Problem words include <em>Alysane, Aurane, Margaery, Trystane, Prestayn, Jaehaeris, Cersei, Missandei.</em> Either those are stressed unusually, or else they are unstable and should reduce: more people for <em>Sunday</em> say [sʊndi] not [sʊndeɪ].  Therefore names like <em>Trystane</em> and <em>Prestayne</em> should either have the stress at the end, or else the vowels in those second syllables must reduce to a schwa, just as it does in <em>mountain</em>.  Similarly, a final ‹‐on› will soon enough become just [ən], indistinguishably from ‹‐an›  or even ‹‐en› : <em>Aeron, Bolston, Barristan, Mhaegan, Thommen, Catelyn, Tyrion</em>. Similarly, a final  ‹‐ar› won’t last long as [ɒɹ] before it becomes just [əɹ], here written  [ɚ]: <em>Rhaegar, Raimar, Celtigar</em> should wear down over the years to sounding like they end the same way as <em>Lannister</em> or <em>Hoster</em>.</li>
</ul>

Edited by CrypticWeirwood, 06 September 2011 - 10:15 PM.

[mor2]

Looks good, maybe you can help out and expand the http://awoiaf.wester...unciation_guide at the WIKI

[CrypticWeirwood]

mordin999, on 03 September 2011 - 02:28 AM, said:

Looks good, maybe you can help out and expand the http://awoiaf.wester...unciation_guide at the WIKI

Well... maybe. I wouldn't know how to adapt what I wrote to that format.

For one thing, those phonetic transcriptions are all in RP (UK Received Pronunciation), and I am not an RP speaker.  I am decidedly rhotic, although unlike most Americans these days, I am not a casualty of the cot/caught merger. :)  This affects more than just r’s. It also affects my diphthongs and how rounded my o’s are. For me, the diphthong in spike is [aɪ] not [ʌɪ], and the one in spoke is [oʊ] not [əʊ], both of which would sound very Canadian to my ear. And Joffrey is  [ˈdʒɔːfɹi] not  [ˈdʒɒfɹi] because it sounds like jaw not John.  See what I mean?

For another thing, a bunch of those that are already there are super bizarre, and not at all what my own inner ear hears.  For example, Baratheon and Petyr are certainly  [bəˈɹæθiən] and [pʰiːtɚ] to me, which is what I hear on the TV show, too, whereas the current Wiki page has the utterly bizarre   [bə'rʌθɪən] and  [pɪ'tʌɪə].  And I could never pronounce ser as [sə:] instead of [sɝː], just as murder is [ˈmɝːdɚ] not [ˈmə:də] — for one thing, there are r’s in that word, but for another, I was taught that English has no stressed schwas. (Now, if we were doing phonemic transcriptions instead of phonetic ones, all this wouldn’t matter so much, but we aren’t, and so it does.)

I’m just trying to create something that’s self‐consistent.  I can cite no authority but my own instincts. I am more than happy to volunteer my stuff, but I would not want it done in some way that made it an inconsistent patchwork, because that loses the whole “integratedness” part of it, which makes it worth nothing. So I would not know how to integrate it into what is already there. Suggestions welcome.

[Biffyc7]

The Slaver's Bay names are the real killers

[CrypticWeirwood]

Biffyc7, on 03 September 2011 - 07:21 PM, said:

The Slaver's Bay names are the real killers

Yes, they really are.  You can tell just from the spelling that there are supposed to be weird and hard to get off the tongue in English. I’ve chosen a phonetic mapping that uses a lot of fricatives that don’t occur in English, and palalized the sibilants. All the non‐Westeros names are meant to sound a bit alien, but the Slaver names the most so. There aren’t (quite) all Slavers, but they’re all at least a bit challenging:

• Grazdan mo Eraz — [ˈgrɑːʒd̪ən mɵ erˈɑːʒ]
  
• Harghaz — [hɒɾˈɣɑːʒ]
  
• Hizdahr zo Loraq — [ˈhɪʒd̪ɑːr ʒɵ lɔˈɾɑːχ]
  
• Jalabhar Xho — [ˈdʒɒləvəɾ ˈχʰo]
  
• Jaqen H'ghar — [ˈdʒɒxɨn həˈɣaːɾ]
  
• Kraznys mo Nakloz — [ˈkʰrɑːʒnɨʃ mɵ nəˈkɫoːʒ]
  
• Marghaz zo Loraq — [marˈɣɑːʒ (ʒ)ɵ lɔˈɾɑːχ]
  
• Prendahl na Ghezn — [prɛnˈd̪ɒːɫ nə ˈɣɛʒn̩]
  
• Skahaz mo Kandaq — [ʃkəˈhɑːʒ mɵ kʰənˈdɑːχ]
  
• Wendello qar Deeth — [wɛnˈdɛlo xaɾ ˈd̪iːθ]

Those are all pretty darned tough. Sometimes I’ve given two pronunciations, one intended that might be considered native and then another that works with your mouth in English mode.


  For example, Maqorro might be simply [mɵˈkɔːɹoʊ] in an English sentence, but perhaps it is actually [moˈxoro] with the [x] from Scottish loch and a full rolled [r].

Similarly, it’s a lot easier to say R’hllor as [ɹʷəˈlɔɹ], but much more impressive to say [ʀ̩ˈɬoʀ] — if you can actually manage that mouthful. :)

[mor2]

CrypticWeirwood, on 03 September 2011 - 05:53 PM, said:

For another thing, a bunch of those that are already there are super bizarre, and not at all what my own inner ear hears.  For example, Baratheon and Petyr are certainly  [bəˈɹæθiən] and [pʰiːtɚ] to me, which is what I hear on the TV show, too, whereas the current Wiki page has the utterly bizarre   [bə'rʌθɪən] and  [pɪ'tʌɪə].  And I could never pronounce ser as [sə:] instead of [sɝː], just as murder is [ˈmɝːdɚ] not [ˈmə ə] — for one thing, there are r’s in that word, but for another, I was taught that English has no stressed schwas. (Now, if we were doing phonemic transcriptions instead of phonetic ones, all this wouldn’t matter so much, but we aren’t, and so it does.)

Ser, usually pronounced differently, as for the rest, the TV show use a slightly diffident pronunciations than the sources used to make that list.

About the wiki you can try expand the list there or star a new section detailing your derivational morphology guidelines(as you did above). as for the format, I wouldnt worry about just paste the list there, if needed i'll do some notepad replace magic will do the trick

Edited by mordin999, 04 September 2011 - 01:56 AM.

[CrypticWeirwood]

<p>

mordin999, on 04 September 2011 - 01:04 AM, said:

</p>
<p>Ser, usually pronounced differently, as for the rest, the TV show use a slightly diffident <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.makinggam...f-thrones.html" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">pronunciations</a> than the sources used to make that list.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>About the wiki you can try expand the list there or star a new section detailing your derivational morphology guidelines(as you did above). as for the format, I wouldnt worry about just paste the list there, if needed i'll do some notepad replace magic will do the trick <img alt="" class="bbc_emoticon" src="http://asoiaf.wester...fault/wink.png" /></p>
<p>

</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ok I’ll do that then. I’ll just start a new section, and include transcription notes.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Not sure what you mean about the notepad thing, but since I’m a Unix Perl programmer, so there’s no sort of trext transform that I can’t produce in my sleep. ;-}</p>
<br />

[Caz]

Ah, the pronunciation thread, where opinions never fail to differ..in a good way, I might add!  A little contribution then;

I think I've always know Jaime is meant to be Jamie, it won't work for me though, he's just not a Jamie!

Arya I pronounce Ar-ia, but then on watching the first HBO episode just yesterday, they pronounced it with a 'ya' rather than 'ia'.  I like mine better.

Maester I pronounce as My-ster but I suspect it should be May-ster

And Catelyn is Kate-lyn, an old Irish name I think.  My daughter was very nearly a Catelyn.  And for the record, Daenerys is a lovely girl's name..I think I would have been tempted if I was to have a baby girl now.

[Steelwitch]

I have to simply things myself.  There are several names that I pronounce like the American style of the name.  Petyr = Peter.........Dany=Danny..........
Catelyn = Caitlyn..........Brienne=Brianne.  I drove myself nuts through the first 3 books arguing with myself about the pronounciation of all the names......ESPECIALLY the sers and the knights and the lords.  More often than not, if i looked a little closer....they were just American names that had a different spelling.  And I thought......."how clever".......
So I'm thinking of changing the spelling of my name.  

Debbie is now going to be Deybie....or Debiee......!  LOL!    To-MAY-toe.......Ta-MAH-toe.   Po-TAY-toe.....Pa-TAH-toe.........   I'm going to bedd.  

Valar Morghulis................Valar Dahaeris
All men must die....but first, we'll live.

[Steelwitch]

Peaches, on 05 April 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

Three pages and no one has told me how to say Sansa! Sans-A! When I read her chapters, I just replace Sansa in my mind with "(the) silly little girl". It hasn't been out of context once so far.

Hysterical!!!!!

[Bad Dog]

Jojen, on 15 August 2011 - 12:22 AM, said:

I don't try to pronounce it. I just call it Red Rhalloo like that wildling does in ADWD. I forget which one it was. Tormund, maybe?

Arya once repeats the name as "Rulore", so I guess that comes pretty close to the pronunciation. Just swallow the u and you're good.

[Anvik]

This is how i pronounce them, lol

R'hllor - Err-h-lore
Daenerys - Day-en-er-iss
Targaryen - Tar-gar-ee-en
Baratheon - Bar-ath-ee-on
Maester - May-ster
Clegane - cle-gain (the 'cle' like cling)
Sandor - Sand-or
Catelyn - Caitlin
Petyr - peter
Brienne - bree-en
Rhaegar - Ray-gar
Aegon - A-egg-on
Aemon - A-em-on
Qhorin - core-in (with a more guttural k sound)
Jaime - Jay-me

I know there are plenty more with pronunciations that differ, but that's how I pronounce them

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

I don't know how GRRM means for Brienne to be pronounced in the books, but Brienne is actually a real name in the real world.  It's a name of French origin, and it's spelled exactly the same way.  I used to date a girl whose sister's middle name was Brienne, and it is pronounced (at least in the French language, and also therefore in the English language) like BREE - ENN.  I put two N's because there is strong emphasis on the final N consonant, in addition to the long EE sound in the first syllable.  Also, in the French pronunciation (though not in the English), there's a slight trill (a rolling of the tongue) on the R.

[whackyplague]

I pronounce the "ae" as a long ee... aside from Daenerys. I dunno why, it just doesn't flow to me. So:

Aegon - EE-gon
Aerys - EE-riss
Aemon - EE-mon
Rhaegar - REE-gar
Viserys - VIS-air-iss
Daenerys - DUH-nair-iss

Tyrion - TIER-ee-on
Tywin - TIE-win

Brienne - BREE-en

[Maester Hodor]

Selyse, anyone???

[Born by Fire]

I've listed to audio books by 3 different readers and this drives me crazy.  My LEAST favorite is the reader who pronounces Baratheon as "Bare-uh-THE-on" instead of "Ba-RATH-i-en".  Makes my skin crawl every time I hear it.

[Born by Fire]

Maester Hodor, on 26 January 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Selyse, anyone???

Going with Suh-LEASE.

[aryja]

So glad for this topic!

When I watched the show from Finnish TV, 'Tyroshi' was translated as 'Swasheroshi'     
pretty hilarious!