Australia and Aboriginal people

[King Gendry Baratheon]

This is news from a while ago, but I just heard about it. I have always thought that Australia does not threat Aborigines good, but this sounds just like something that Soviet Union would have done during 20 century,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/indigenous-communities-closures-will-have-severe-consequences/5886840

[Arkhangel]

That is from quite a while ago, yes. Unfortunately the decision hasn't (yet) been overturned, but there is an ongoing protest movement big enough to shut down the CBD of one of our biggest cities. Hopefully with enough public pressure applied it won't happen.

[Egalitarianism Always]

This is news from a while ago, but I just heard about it. I have always thought that Australia does not threat Aborigines good, but this sounds just like something that Soviet Union would have done during 20 century,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/indigenous-communities-closures-will-have-severe-consequences/5886840

Or something SEGMENTS within the USA or the Swedish or the Norwegian or the British or the Irish or the Spanish or the Chinese or the Indians or the Native Americans cultures etc etc etc would do. Let's not leave it at nationalism, segments within any gender sexual identity as well.

Some people are scum.

I can GUARANTEE they'd be elements within the Australian Aborigine culture who have and do the same to others.

They've called it Darwinian natural selection, I'd call it the worst type of evolution, the consequences of which lead to destruction.

Tech level reaches the point where the hyper-rich have no need for government anymore, privatized army of drones like the terminators or the squidies from the matrix et al.

Segments within every 'group' see groups in an concrete non changing sense, so they will degrade others they don't see within their group.

The hyper-rich don't see groups at all, no commonality, they see only themselves, they don't even see it as greed.

[TerraPrime]

I think we all can accept that bad people behaving badly occurs all around the world across all social boundaries while still condemn specific actors in specific acts of horribleness. Yes?

[The Reckoner]

Do the Aborigines chose to live in isolation, cut off from modern society for cultural reasons, or was it forced on them?

[TerraPrime]

Do the Aborigines chose to live in isolation, cut off from modern society for cultural reasons, or was it forced on them?

That is a very difficult question to answer. Self-determination and advocacy are hard to assess for a group of people who have been marginalized and stripped of said capacities systematically. I think you will need to ask the question in a way that is a lot more nuanced to get a chance at a reasonable answer.

[Arkhangel]

Do the Aborigines chose to live in isolation, cut off from modern society for cultural reasons, or was it forced on them?

Like a lot of questions about where and how people live, it's complicated. If your question is, 'why are they there' - culture is part of it, but so are family ties, language (many people in remote indigenous communities do not speak Standard Australian English), education, employment opportunities, discrimination and racism.

If your question is 'do they have viable alternatives' - the most salient point is probably that we know what happens when communities like this are closed down, because it's happened before - people become homeless or move in with relatives, move to town camps outside places like Katherine or Alice Springs, substance abuse spikes, suicide spikes, kids are pulled out or just drop out of school.

(Anti-essentialising disclaimer: this of course certainly doesn't apply to all or even most indigenous people).

[King Gendry Baratheon]

Do the Aborigines chose to live in isolation, cut off from modern society for cultural reasons, or was it forced on them?

In Finland we have large areas with very little population, but that does not mean that we don't have electricity, schools, shops there.

[Davrum]

I think we all can accept that bad people behaving badly occurs all around the world across all social boundaries while still condemning specific actors in specific acts of horribleness. Yes?

Oh yes.

[Arkhangel]

In Finland we have large areas with very little population, but that does not mean that we don't have electricity, schools, shops there.

Have you looked at a map lately? Australia's a bit bigger than Finland. That in no way justifies closing communities, of course, but there are undeniably real challenges with servicing very remote areas.

[Summah]

It's really disgusting that a politician would close communities and force people to move. I can't help but think this would not be happening if they were white. It's especially disgusting considering the history of stealing the continent and massive discrimination and crimes against the Aborigines, like stealing children.

[brook]

Arkhangel gave a good summary of some of the reasons that people can find themselves trapped in these communities (and why just closing them fixes nothing) but it's worth pointing out just how culturally and spiritually important connection to the land is to many Indigenous Australians. Closing down these communities won't just destroy lives (although it will do that) but it has the potential to destroy cultures

Have you looked at a map lately? Australia's a bit bigger than Finland. That in no way justifies closing communities, of course, but there are undeniably real challenges with servicing very remote areas.

Yeah I'm not sure it's possible to even explain what 'remote' means in an Australian context. We're not talking rural small towns

It's really disgusting that a politician would close communities and force people to move. I can't help but think this would not be happening if they were white. It's especially disgusting considering the history of stealing the continent and massive discrimination and crimes against the Aborigines, like stealing children.

It's not even up for debate - this would not happen if they were white communities. The ongoing and systemic discrimination against the Indigenous population is the only thing that rivals our treatment of those seeking Asylum in the list of things every Australian should be ashamed of.

[Angalin]

Arkhangel gave a good summary of some of the reasons that people can find themselves trapped in these communities (and why just closing them fixes nothing) but it's worth pointing out just how culturally and spiritually important connection to the land is to many Indigenous Australians. Closing down these communities won't just destroy lives (although it will do that) but it has the potential to destroy cultures

Yeah I'm not sure it's possible to even explain what 'remote' means in an Australian context. We're not talking rural small towns

It's not even up for debate - this would not happen if they were white communities. The ongoing and systemic discrimination against the Indigenous population is the only thing that rivals our treatment of those seeking Asylum in the list of things every Australian should be ashamed of.

Transplanting human communities isn't like moving plants around in a garden. Come sit in the corner with Canada. :(

[BloodRider]

This is news from a while ago, but I just heard about it. I have always thought that Australia does not threat Aborigines good, but this sounds just like something that Soviet Union would have done during 20 century,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/indigenous-communities-closures-will-have-severe-consequences/5886840

If this makes your head spin I reccommend not googling "The stolen Generations"

[Darzin]

How can the government close a community? Do they mean stop providing services to it? Presumably the people own the the land so how can the government force them to move?

[Arkhangel]

The people don't own the land in a legal sense (I don't think... are these native title areas, anyone?) but the government has claimed it won't force people to leave. They'll just cut all the services which are essential for survival :rolleyes:

I do think there is a reasonable conversation to be had with the full participation of the residents about what could be done to improve these communities, because it sounds like some of them are in a pretty parlous state. Just shutting them down will only throw people from the frying pan into the fire, though.