Wavey Sauce Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 It really was not that long ago when he knew they were still alive. Also with when Hodor killed Locke when they were fighting at the village. But Jon must still know there is a chance they are still alive and out there. So now especially with help, how would he forget to bring that up? To Stannis or to anyone? Especially when Stannis wants to make him a Stark and go to WF etc. He should have brought up that they could still be alive and then Stannis could have put a big search out. Makes way more sense. Was it just a plot hole or something? They realized they made a past mistake, because Jon just not bringing them up again just makes no sense at all. How would he just forget about that possible scenario? I just cant see him forgetting something like that and not bringing them up ever again........ Also one other plot hole...........How would Brienne not bring up to Sansa that she just saw Arya not to long ago, and bring up that she was with the hound etc? Actually even going back to Arya, she might have got her trust if she mentioned hot pie and showed her the dire wolf bread that hot pie made for her that they were saving.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Bran is beyond the Wall and his location there is unknown to anyone. Even Sam. I don't think Stannis can afford the time to send out a search party to look for him with the Boltons south of the Wall and the remaining wildlings north who could ambush his men. Rickon - I don't think Sam knows that Rickon is near Last Hearth. If he did, he would have told Jon and D&D are not dumb (enough) to have Jon forget to mention that to Stannis. The Starks would be able to regain Winterfell again through Eddard's line even with Rickon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefln Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 He doesn’t know if they are still alive, he doesn't know where they are, finding them might be next to impossible. What it comes down to is the claim to the Stark name. Everyone knows who Jon is, his life is traceable, as is Sansa's. But anyone could claim that they have found Bran, or Rickon, and it could be months/years before it was proven to be true or false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 You're right OP, he should have mentioned Bran in his conversation with Stan as another reason why he couldn't take him up on his offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Season 5 is not over and Stannis hasn't left the wall yet, so if he thinks he can trust Stannis with the information, it just might pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think the Brienne not mentioning Arya is more of a mistake than Jon not mentioning his brothers. With Brienne she was trying to convince Sansa to trust her, Jon isn't in the same position. His reason for not taking the offer isn't because of his brothers, it's because of his own perception of honor and his oath. And I think he knows that knowledge like that might not be beneficial to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think the Brienne not mentioning Arya is more of a mistake than Jon not mentioning his brothers. With Brienne she was trying to convince Sansa to trust her, Jon isn't in the same position. His reason for not taking the offer isn't because of his brothers, it's because of his own perception of honor and his oath. And I think he knows that knowledge like that might not be beneficial to share. Brienne was in a similar situation with regards to Arya in that conversation. Although it might well have helped her case in convincing Sansa, with LF standing right there, its a plausible explanation that she didn't feel she could risk it. If LF were to send his men to search for Arya and were to find her, then he'd have both Arya and Sansa under his control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think it's legit for Jon to not reveal to anyone, including Stannis, that Bran and Rickon are still probably alive. But it would have been nice for the Jon and Sam conversation to have included an observation on the part of Jon that he would be dishonouring and usurping his blood half brothers as well as the Nights Watch if he took Stannis up on his offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 It really was not that long ago when he knew they were still alive. Also with when Hodor killed Locke when they were fighting at the village. But Jon must still know there is a chance they are still alive and out there. So now especially with help, how would he forget to bring that up? To Stannis or to anyone? Especially when Stannis wants to make him a Stark and go to WF etc. He should have brought up that they could still be alive and then Stannis could have put a big search out. Makes way more sense. Was it just a plot hole or something? They realized they made a past mistake, because Jon just not bringing them up again just makes no sense at all. How would he just forget about that possible scenario? I just cant see him forgetting something like that and not bringing them up ever again........ Also one other plot hole...........How would Brienne not bring up to Sansa that she just saw Arya not to long ago, and bring up that she was with the hound etc? Actually even going back to Arya, she might have got her trust if she mentioned hot pie and showed her the dire wolf bread that hot pie made for her that they were saving.......... What episode does Sam tell Jon they are alive? I'm having trouble finding the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoracchius Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Season 5 is not over and Stannis hasn't left the wall yet, so if he thinks he can trust Stannis with the information, it just might pop up. Yeah, ever since the show had Jon learn that Bran and Rickon are alive, I figured it was to set-up Davos' search for Rickon without having to introduce the Manderlys and all the extra stuff about the Sisters and White Harbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Yeah, ever since the show had Jon learn that Bran and Rickon are alive, I figured it was to set-up Davos' search for Rickon without having to introduce the Manderlys and all the extra stuff about the Sisters and White Harbor. Do you know what episode Jon learned Bran and Rickon were alive was? I'm having trouble finding that scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFP Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 If Jon were to be legitimized [is that the term?] then I suppose he'd be next in line regardless of the whereabouts of his younger siblings. And it's not totally clear what Stannis wants from Jon. Is it 'The North' [i.e. any Stark would do... and in the books at least Jon's looks have been said to typify the North more than his siblings with the possible exception of Arya]? Is it a Stark who's combat trained & proven in battle [i.e. adult, male, able-bodied]? Is it a Stark who'd come complete with [a very small number of] Black Brothers & possibly Wildlings? A Stark with a direwolf? But I tend to agree that it was probably a small plothole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoracchius Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Do you know what episode Jon learned Bran and Rickon were alive was? I'm having trouble finding that scene. S4, either episode 3 or 4. After Locke makes his way to the Wall, there's a scene where Jon and Sam discuss Bran and Rickon, then look at a map of Beyond the Wall to try to surmise where Bran and company may have gone. At the end of the scene, we see that Locke was listening in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Bran is beyond the Wall and his location there is unknown to anyone. Even Sam. I don't think Stannis can afford the time to send out a search party to look for him with the Boltons south of the Wall and the remaining wildlings north who could ambush his men. Rickon - I don't think Sam knows that Rickon is near Last Hearth. If he did, he would have told Jon and D&D are not dumb (enough) to have Jon forget to mention that to Stannis. The Starks would be able to regain Winterfell again through Eddard's line even with Rickon Stannis is at the point he really really wants and needs a Stark to back and get the North. Especially with Jon Snow refusing his offer, he would spare what he needed to find a Stark male Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 He doesn’t know if they are still alive, he doesn't know where they are, finding them might be next to impossible. What it comes down to is the claim to the Stark name. Everyone knows who Jon is, his life is traceable, as is Sansa's. But anyone could claim that they have found Bran, or Rickon, and it could be months/years before it was proven to be true or false. Regardless, he wouldnt just forget about them and never bring it up again. Mainly when Stannis and him were talking, about making him a legit Stark that he needed a Stark etc. Snow should have brought that up and he also would have loved the fact that other people have a chance of going to find him, which would make him feel a lot better with him staying at the wall, knowing that someone is at least looking for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think the Brienne not mentioning Arya is more of a mistake than Jon not mentioning his brothers. With Brienne she was trying to convince Sansa to trust her, Jon isn't in the same position. His reason for not taking the offer isn't because of his brothers, it's because of his own perception of honor and his oath. And I think he knows that knowledge like that might not be beneficial to share. Ugh sorry on the triple post it wasnt letting me multi quote. I agree, the Brienne thing was poorly done. When seeing Arya she should have brought up her friend hot pie, and showed her the dire wolf bread that he baked for her. That he asked them to give to Arya if they found her. That would have had her not as skeptical and possibly trusting them. But then to speak with Sansa and Little Finger and not even bring up the fact that she just ran into Arya, and fought off the Hound etc. Like how would she not bring that up, if anything it would have maybe given her more help and people to locate her. But to just not even bring it up to Sansa at all............makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayven Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Ugh sorry on the triple post it wasnt letting me multi quote. I agree, the Brienne thing was poorly done. When seeing Arya she should have brought up her friend hot pie, and showed her the dire wolf bread that he baked for her. That he asked them to give to Arya if they found her. That would have had her not as skeptical and possibly trusting them. But then to speak with Sansa and Little Finger and not even bring up the fact that she just ran into Arya, and fought off the Hound etc. Like how would she not bring that up, if anything it would have maybe given her more help and people to locate her. But to just not even bring it up to Sansa at all............makes no sense "Yeah, Brienne, you may be wearing a Lannister sword given to you by Jaime, and you failed to protect my mother despite swearing to do so, but you've got bread shaped like a wolf!" "Well, I met Arya, but lost her immediately because she trusted the Hound more than me. That should prove how safe you'll be in my company." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggle Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Jon doesn't know Bran is alive in the books, Sam kept that secret when he ran into him at the Night Fort. The show loves doing these weird "near misses". I.E Jon at Crasters, Bran at Crasters. Which neither happened. For the show to follow the rest of Jon's arc the show has to forget Jon knows about Bran. The show is full of tiny issues like this just because they wanted to do some sort of WoW factor, like near misses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 "Yeah, Brienne, you may be wearing a Lannister sword given to you by Jaime, and you failed to protect my mother despite swearing to do so, but you've got bread shaped like a wolf!" "Well, I met Arya, but lost her immediately because she trusted the Hound more than me. That should prove how safe you'll be in my company." Brienne was not at the RW. Showing the Dire wolf would show her that Hot Pie trusted her who is a good friend and would go off of thinking he wouldnt send someone to screw her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Jon doesn't know Bran is alive in the books, Sam kept that secret when he ran into him at the Night Fort. The show loves doing these weird "near misses". I.E Jon at Crasters, Bran at Crasters. Which neither happened. For the show to follow the rest of Jon's arc the show has to forget Jon knows about Bran. The show is full of tiny issues like this just because they wanted to do some sort of WoW factor, like near misses And they just leave tons of plot holes cause they dont think ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.