Stark - the Antagonist?

[The Dames do Moan]

As we have read throughout the first five books of the series, the five remaining Stark children have mostly been protagonists. Though we may not always like their storylines, or really even heard from all of them (Rickon?!?!). Now I know one of the common themes throughout the books is a lack of good versus evil. But there are certainly characters we root for and characters we tend to root against.

With that being said, throughout the books I cannot see all of the Stark children remaining protagonists throughout the entire arc. GRRM has certainly made a point to include redemption arcs throughout the series. Why would he not include the opposite? And who better to do that with than the Stark children the majority of readers have come to root for?

Certainly he will not do it with all of them, and I do not claim to know which one he may choose, if any. Below are my thoughts on how he might accomplish this with each of the remaining children.

Jon - The last we see of him, he is apparently dying at the end of ADWD. He could be brought back, ala Lady Stoneheart, but with a little more "ice." His story continues, but we see his transformation into the Nights King or a similar figure. Obviously this would be with the assumption that the others aren't really more than they appear.

Bran - similar situation to Jon, his work with BR leads him down a path of darkness. Again this would need to be with the assumption that the others don't turn out to be protagonists because if they did then Bran doesn't really turn into the antagonist at all.

Sansa - her political mentoring from LF sets her up on opposite sides than one of our current Starks, or maybe even Dany (though a lot of the fandom may be cheering for her if the latter is the case).

Arya - she continues with the faceless man, and they are set at odds with magic. Maybe she is sent to kill Alayne, or continues down a path of murder no longer caring who the victims are.

Rickon - though a little bit harder to predict, certainly we can give it a try. He comes back from Skaggos, with the cannibals at his back. Grows up to be more of the wild wolf we saw at the beginning of AGoT.

Any thoughts or insight you may have is appreciated. Do you think he will go this route with one, take a different route, or not go down this way at all

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Jon - The last we see of him, he is apparently dying at the end of ADWD. He could be brought back, ala Lady Stoneheart, but with a little more "ice." His story continues, but we see his transformation into the Nights King or a similar figure. Obviously this would be with the assumption that the others aren't really more than they appear.

Apparently dying? Just like Arya apparently died when Sandor hit her at the head with the axe?

[The Dames do Moan]

Apparently dying? Just like Arya apparently died when Sandor hit her at the head with the axe?

It's very likely he is dying, IMO probably like 90%, but we don't know for 100% a certainty.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Protagonist merely means that the main focus is on them, it's not the new "good" to the antagonist's new "evil".

So no, I do not expect a shift of focus in the series. Starks will continue to be protagonists, even if they become notably darker than their respective antagonists (which is unlikely, really, but nevertheless).

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I don't think one of the Starks would choose to be antagonistic to their siblings but they could easily be manipulated to do so. I think it is very possible to see a dance of wolves but again, because other people are pulling their strings. I also don't see it be successful because the kids will eventually understand the situation and move against the mentor. They will side with one another, if given the choice, or not side with anyone (mentor or sibling) something I could see Sansa doing.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Original title for the final book was A TIME FOR WOLVES.

With all of Ned's talk about the pack surviving, if any of the Stark children become antagonists, it will be temporary.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Original title for the final book was A TIME FOR WOLVES.

With all of Ned's talk about the pack surviving, if any of the Stark children become antagonists, it will be temporary.

While I agree that the Starks could only be antagonists temporarily, the title doesn't prove that. In fact, considering how all the other houses have had their opportunity to do anything to get what they want, A Time for Wolves could be the time for the Starks to do the same.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

While I agree that the Starks could only be antagonists temporarily, the title doesn't prove that. In fact, considering how all the other houses have had their opportunity to do anything to get what they want, A Time for Wolves could be the time for the Starks to do the same.

Possible, but I doubt it.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Possible, but I doubt it.

Right now, each Stark is with a mentor that has questionable and unknown plans. We have LF telling Sansa he will give her the North. We have Davos looking for Rickon so he can bring him to Stannis so Stannis can control the North. If there's a struggle, it would probably be with those two. Bran and Arya are also in situations with shady mentors but their mentors don't seem interested in ruling the North. And it's hard to say what to expect from Jon once he's back in his body. It is very possible that there could a power struggle for a short time.

[kimim]

Right now, each Stark is with a mentor that has questionable and known plans. We have LF telling Sansa he will give her the North. We have Davos looking for Rickon so he can bring him to Stannis so Stannis can control the North. If there's a struggle, it would probably be with those two. Bran and Arya are also in situations with shady mentors but their mentors don't seem interested in ruling the North. And it's hard to say what to expect from Jon once he's back in his body. It is very possible that there could a power struggle for a short time.

Starks might decide to play the game or go dark, but it can't last. Sooner than later, the white walkers and the wights will make an appearance, which should put an end to Stark political ambitions.

[Lady of Butterflies]

Many people think that Bran will turn on the dark side and Rickon will be the hero that will own Winterfell. I think the roles will be reversed.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Starks might decide to play the game or go dark, but it can't last. Sooner than later, the white walkers and the wights will make an appearance, which should put an end to Stark political ambitions.

I think they'd stop way before they were forced to. Ultimately they aren't that type, even with the influence of their mentors.

Many people think that Bran will turn on the dark side and Rickon will be the hero that will own Winterfell. I think the roles will be reversed.

I can see Bran being "very grey" because I think BR is but I don't know if I'd say the dark side. I think Rickon will be wild, ferocious and definitely "grey" because he had the least amount of influence from Ned but I don't think it will be so cut and dry as hero or villain.

[John Doe]

Original title for the final book was A TIME FOR WOLVES.

And it ISN'T ANYMORE

[TerrorVoid]

GRRM is very strict about everyone being different shade of grey, not black and white.

[bb1180]

I guess its possible, but I don't see the motivation for it. They don't seem to have personal ambition or a deep sense of entitlement, aside from a desire to see their lands restored. Their animosities are generally directed at those who have genuinely harmed them or their close family. If one of the Stark children were to regain Winterfell and the North, I don't believe any of the others would contest their own better claim at this point. There's not much room left for them to stir problems for others outside those bounds, except as a response to further provocation.

Rickon might be an exception, but his personality and motivations are speculation at this point. LS might also take exception to Jon holding the Stark titles and lands, but I don't think Jon will ever hold those directly.

[TeethGrinder]

They have a good variation already. Arya is a complete anti-hero, becoming a ruthless killer, but her motives are pure and will remain that way.

Sansa the only one I could see getting manipulated. LF is as bad an influence as they come. But she's still well intentioned and I can't see that changing.

They've already given the hugely dark turn for Cat, who was technically a Stark so nothing is due in that regard.

[Lord Foreshadow]

I imagine that Bloodraven has been guiding Bran to this point so that he can eventually take over Bran's body, basically giving himself a second life in Bran's body without losing his skinchanging ability like Varamyr did. If Bran's mind survives Bloodraven's attempt to possess his body, then he'll remain good. If Bran's mind does not survive, Bloodraven could commit some evil acts while possessing Bran's body.

I think Jon is basically playing out the role of Efnisien from the Mabinogian tales of Welsh mythology. Efnisien was the half-brother of Bran the Blessed, and together they fought the Irish king Matholwch. Matholwch had a magic cauldron that could raise fallen soldiers into an undead army, and Efnisien disguised himself among the dead so that he could destroy the cauldron from within, sacrificing himself in the process. I imagine Jon will become undead and appear to become a villain, but he will be crucial in stopping the Others in the end.

Sansa will become a villain of sorts, committing acts against her family somehow, though it will be for some reason with which we can sympathize. We know that George intended for Sansa to be the Stark family member with dubious loyalty, and I think that part of her story arc will fully manifest itself somehow before the end.

Arya is pretty dark already, but I wouldn't have her any other way. She won't become a villain, but she makes a great anti-hero.

Rickon is a tough call. I don't think George originally intended to ever seriously revisit Rickon's story. I figured the original plan was to just have him fulfill the literary trope of a Shaggy Dog story - hence his direwolf's name. His eventual fate and overall disposition probably won't be determined before the series ends. Maybe that plan has changed though, since George said he liked the show's version of Osha so much that he decided to bring her back to the story in upcoming novels.

Cat is already a villain. I get the feeling that she'll become one of the worst ones around.

[Mithras]

If any Stark is to be an undead infiltrator and give us information about the Others, it will be Benjen.

It is clear that his party was attacked by the wights and/or Others. Bran told (or as a god made it happen) that the children help him. Maybe the children didnot save him from death but did something magical so that Benjen could retain his true self and resist the Others.

[TheLightning Lord]

Cat is already a villain. I get the feeling that she'll become one of the worst ones around.

How does getting revenge on Freys and Lannisters make Cat a villain ? :huh:

[HexMachina]

GRRM is very strict about everyone being different shade of grey, not black and white.

In a world with Gregor, Ramsay and the Bloody Mummers, this is clearly BS