Growing meat in vast vats (methane gas no longer put into the atmosphere.)

[Egalitarianism Always]

My post here inspired iO9 to write this article about how barbaric we as a species still are, (iO9 used my reference to the film 2001, and points 4 and 1).

That's not the issue what is of concern is climate change, point 8 in the iO9 article about growing meat instead of farming it, at present farming livestock produces methane gas which is a massive contributor climate change gas. Growing meat in vast vats would allow us the option of pumping the methane and CO2 deep underground.

If I inspired the iO9 staff I wish they'd contacted me I've known about what should happen concerning meat production and how that would impact climate change by changing over to growing meat in vast vats.

[Wise Fool]

I would gladly eat vat-grown meat.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Obligatory...

http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Lumpy67/media/soylentGreen5_zps4oo9exmv.jpg.html

[Larry of the Lawn]

My post here inspired iO9 to write this article about how barbaric we as a species still are, (iO9 used my reference to the film 2001, and points 4 and 1).

That's not the issue what is of concern is climate change, point 8 in the iO9 article about growing meat instead of farming it, at present farming livestock produces methane gas which is a massive contributor climate change gas. Growing meat in vast vats would allow us the option of pumping the methane and CO2 deep underground.

If I inspired the iO9 staff I wish they'd contacted me I've known about what should happen concerning meat production and how that would impact climate change by changing over to growing meat in vast vats.

Wasteful, man. Pump the CO2 back into greenhouses.

Of course there are other ways we can reduce greenhouse gases and conserve energy and land. I think there should be some kind of tax incentive to not have kids children. Not sure how it would work exactly, just a feeling.

[Theda Baratheon]

Or just dont eat meat lolol

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

If humanity suddenly decided to stop eating meat altogether what do y'all think would happen to the billions of domesticated food animals on the planet?

[Theda Baratheon]

They would eventually die but not be in captivity/tortured/abused anymore but I don't wanna get into that here; i'm in the minority on this board when it comes to not eating meat i think.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Theda,

Isn't that part of the moral question of complete vegetarianism? Do we not have an obligation to the species we created that can no longer fend for themselves in the wild?

[Gears of the Beast]

They would eventually die but not be in captivity/tortured/abused anymore but I don't wanna get into that here; i'm in the minority on this board when it comes to not eating meat i think.

If they're not in captivity seems like they'll completely fuck up ecosystems, continue to breed and then begin to starve to death in mass numbers. Doesn't sound like the optimal solution...

[Theda Baratheon]

Why?? we bred cows, pigs, chickens at an abnormal rate for their meat and their milk and their eggs, if everyone were to just go vegetarian or vegan then those animals might eventually die off but that would be much more natural than forcefully breeding them to eat them. Also, if we didnt have to feed all those animals there would actually be lower demand for feed grains, corn, soy etc - thus less pollution and deforestation. More food to feed starving ppl more land for natural wildlife to thrive.

Im conflicted about ppl keeping chickens bcus if ppl are caring for them and looking after them well then not a lot of abuse is going on but factory farms are EVIL and MUST be stopped. There might be plenty of farmers out there who are great to their animals and care for them but i cant feel v positively about any farms until factory farming is ended or reduced. I try not to preach too much but its fckin ridiculous to hear people go on about not knowing what to eat for a meal if it doesnt have meat in, saying they couldnt even go one or two days without meat it just shows at the v least ppl could just eat slightly LESS meat and the world would be a better place not just for animals but for people too, that is often forgotten, how bad for the environment and human beings in general that factory farms are

[Theda Baratheon]

If they're not in captivity seems like they'll completely fuck up ecosystems, continue to breed and then begin to starve to death in mass numbers. Doesn't sound like the optimal solution...

not everyone is instantly going to become veggie and all farms arent going to instantly disappear all at once so this is a fucking stupid as shit anti-veggie argument anyway

[Gears of the Beast]

not everyone is instantly going to become veggie and all farms arent going to instantly disappear all at once so this is a fucking stupid as shit anti-veggie argument anyway

it's not an anti-veggie argument, I'm just pointing out the problems that would arise in that hypothetical scenario. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to these ideas, I'm not attacking vegetarianism.

[Theda Baratheon]

But it was a ridiculous question to begin with, the world will NEVER instantly go vegan, but if you're genuinely interested in an answer (which is great) then this YouTuber answers it clearer, and more eloquently than I do.

I don't want to guilt anyone for their food habits; but if you ask me a stupid question or initiate one of the countless BS arguments that vegans and vegetarians hear all the time then of course i'm gonna be frustrated. Would genuinely be interested in discussing with with people who actually care though. BTW I'm not vegan, I'm vegetarian and am slowly working towards being a vegan.

At the very least, I just wish everyone realized how awful factory farms were for both animals and people and reduced their meat intake.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Theda,

I'm not hostile to vegetatianism either. I'm simply not sure it would work on a species wide scale. Human's are omnivore. We evolved as omnivores. Can we all survive if we all become vegitarians?

Additionally, again, I believe we do have an obligation to the species we domesticated that cannot survive in the wild, or, as GotB pointed out, would do serious ecological damage if released into the wild. Look at rabbits and cats in Australia, and they're not even domesticated.

I completely agree with you on CAFOs.

[Sci-2]

Theda,

Isn't that part of the moral question of complete vegetarianism? Do we not have an obligation to the species we created that can no longer fend for themselves in the wild?

Sorry Ser Scott this doesn't seem like a valid argument to me, unless you're going to make an effort to preserve other species facing extinction that aren't used in food consumption? And you could still take care of the animals until they naturally expired.

This isn't an anti-meat argument though - I still eat meat though I've tried to shift to some of the meatless substitutes. I honestly don't know where I stand on this issue beyond reducing the amount of meat I eat, honestly it's just one more among all the other issues - sweatshops, workers' rights in the porn industry, breeding pets while recuses are overfilled - where one can critique the inaction/inertia of the consumer.

[Theda Baratheon]

I believe we do have an obligation to the species we domesticated that cannot survive in the wild

but that is kind of sick when you think about it, what are you actually saying here Scott? Think about it. Are you saying we should continue to slaughter, unnaturally breed and hunt animals because if we didn't they'd die anyway and that's bad is ridiculous. The scenario of remaining animals being slaughtered (if the world was vegan and there was no demand for them) might be a horrible initial image but its a lot better than the reality of perpetuating a disgusting industry where these animals are abused, slaughtered and fed a huuuuuge population of the worlds feed grains that could otherwise just go to feed humans.

I'm not sure you've really thought about what you're asking here, or genuinely thought about this topic in any great length because this is just one of the knee-jerk reactions people often have when confronted with a vegetarian or vegan.

Actually we could be completely healthy on a vegan diet it's just a lot of people have awful food knowledge, me included, I'm not unhealthy because I'm vegetarian, I'm unhealthy because of MY vegetarian diet which is awful because my food knowledge sucks (but is getting better) my flatmate is vegan, eats a lot, is very healthy, is always making yummy meals and desserts and is not deficient in anything because she takes good care of herself and knows how her body works and what foods to eat.

So I'm not going to say that everyone would work with a vegan diet, because there are tons of people that are unhealthy who aren't veggie or vegan because a lot of people just do not know how to eat well. Also, the whole ''a vegan diet is much more expensive'' is pretty ridiculous lol.

At the very least like I have repeatedly said, I just wish people realized they could easily eat less meat. You don't need to eat three meals a day all with meat in there somewhere, you can be perfectly healthy and happy eating less meat than that, surely.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Theda,

I'm not hostile to vegetatianism either. I'm simply not sure it would work on a species wide scale. Human's are omnivore. We evolved as omnivores. Can we all survive if we all become vegitarians?

Additionally, again, I believe we do have an obligation to the species we domesticated that cannot survive in the wild, or, as GotB pointed out, would do serious ecological damage if released into the wild. Look at rabbits and cats in Australia, and they're not even domesticated.

I completely agree with you on CAFOs.

short answer, yes. Some people might have nutrition issues, but from a production standpoint, it uses far less land and resources to produce a vegetarian diet than a diet than includes meat. A few of my veggie friends have recently started eating local meats because they figure it's more sustainable than eating exotic fruits shipped in from all over the world, but that's smaller issue.

Yes, releasing all the meat animals would be environmentally damaging. But so is factory farming. We could just eat them all in one big last feast before everyone goes veggie.

[Gears of the Beast]

But it was a ridiculous question to begin with, the world will NEVER instantly go vegan, but if you're genuinely interested in an answer (which is great) then this YouTuber answers it clearer, and more eloquently than I do.

I don't want to guilt anyone for their food habits; but if you ask me a stupid question or initiate one of the countless BS arguments that vegans and vegetarians hear all the time then of course i'm gonna be frustrated. Would genuinely be interested in discussing with with people who actually care though. BTW I'm not vegan, I'm vegetarian and am slowly working towards being a vegan.

At the very least, I just wish everyone realized how awful factory farms were for both animals and people and reduced their meat intake.

I think it prompts interesting questions. Personally, I put less emphasis on the suffering of individual members of a species and greater emphasis on the species as whole so I'm very concerned by fishing because of the prospect of completely wiping out many species of sea animals. Seeing those fucking trawlers that just drive for miles with those enormous nets makes me pretty unconformable, much more so than those farm to fridge videos.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

LtI,

short answer, yes. Some people might have nutrition issues, but from a production standpoint, it uses far less land and resources to produce a vegetarian diet than a diet than includes meat. A few of my veggie friends have recently started eating local meats because they figure it's more sustainable than eating exotic fruits shipped in from all over the world, but that's smaller issue.

Yes, releasing all the meat animals would be environmentally damaging. But so is factory farming. We could just eat them all in one big last feast before everyone goes veggie.

What percentage of the Earth's land area is actually suitable for growing crops? How can more be brought into cultivation without damging the species that live in uncultuvated land and requiring fossil fuels to make artificial fertilizer to allow cultuvation?

[Larry of the Lawn]

LtI,

What percentage of the Earth's land area is actually suitable for growing crops? How can more be brought into cultivation without damging the species that live in uncultuvated land and requiring fossil fuels to make artificial fertilizer to allow cultuvation?

Not sure I understand the point of the question unless you're advocating that everyone go veggie. If everyone went vegetarian, we grow on less land than we do know. We don't need giant corn fields to feed cattle and chickens. Meat uses up more land than veggies. And I don't think you can make any fertilizers from fossil fuels, but yeah, making them requires energy from somewhere. So really, those are questions you should be answering if you want to argue for how we eventually accommodate 10 billion omnivores.

I'm not even advocating everyone become a vegetarian (I'm not) but from a sustainability point it's not even a question that it's superior to a diet that includes meat.

eta: think my first post was confusing because of the bit about my vegetarian friends that started eating local chicken- the point there was that they are in their 60s and were starting to have health concerns, and wanted to try adding some meat to their diet. and figured shipping veggies from across the country uses fuel and kills animals (road kill, combines, etc) anyway, so why not get some protein from a local source that raises the animals humanely? I see how it was confusing, and not really related to my the rest of my post.

But overall, even considering the shipping, a plant based diet uses fewer resources and less land than one that includes meat.