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Stannis' Reaction to (F?)Aegon and Dany?


Ivan Campo

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Relatively new here, so I'm not sure if this has already been discussed, but even after re-reading the series, I can't recall any scene/chapter where the Mannis learns of Dany's claim, or Aegon's for that matter - please correct me if I'm wrong however.



Since he's a stickler for honour and law, and his attempt on the Iron Throne "is not a question of wanting" what do you think he'd make of their individual claims? I personally can't see him stepping aside for a Targaryen, but fighting them would bring about a conflict of his morals, since he genuinely believes the line of succession should be followed with no exception.



IMO his response to (F?)Aegon would simply be to reject Varys' claims (with good reason) about his heritage until proven otherwise.



With Dany, since there's no question about her lineage I think the only way Stannis could really challenge her in terms of rights is by pointing to the primogeniture introduced after the Dance of the Dragons.


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The throne is mine by right... (sobs in the bath whilst Mel strokes his hair)

It won't bother Stan's morals, they're not Baratheons. Robert Baratheon was the annointed king of the Seven Kingdoms and Stannis is his legitimate heir. I think the lady doth protest too much when it comes to duty and not wanting the throne anyway.

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Stannis, considering daenerys claim. Stannis, the sexist.

No way.

Targarien dynasty heir is Stannis. Dany and Aegoen do not have claim since they've lost it with death of the mad king.

Targaryen/Baratheon succession can be argued about forever, but it's just wrong to say dany/aegon have no claim. You may not like them but they do have a claim. Not aegon, but daenerys does.

Baratheon claim comes from conquest. Targaryen claim comes from conquest.

Both have lost the throne. So saying Targaryens have no claim, stannis therefore has no claim.

By your logic, the lannisters are rightful rulers.

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Stannis, considering daenerys claim. Stannis, the sexist.

No way.

Targaryen/Baratheon succession can be argued about forever, but it's just wrong to say dany/aegon have no claim. You may not like them but they do have a claim. Not aegon, but daenerys does.

Baratheon claim comes from conquest. Targaryen claim comes from conquest.

Both have lost the throne. So saying Targaryens have no claim, stannis therefore has no claim.

By your logic, the lannisters are rightful rulers.

It is not that simple.

Baratheon claim comes from them being Targaryen. Stannis is Targaryen ruler and successor. Robert didn't usurp the throne. He brought Aerys to justice for his crimes. With Aerys all of his linage lost their rights. Thus Robert, as guy which has the biggest amount of targ blood is chosen to rule.

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It is not that simple.

Baratheon claim comes from them being Targaryen. Stannis is Targaryen ruler and successor. Robert didn't usurp the throne. He brought Aerys to justice for his crimes. With Aerys all of his linage lost their rights. Thus Robert, as guy which has the biggest amount of targ blood is chosen to rule.

Viserys had the biggest amount of targ blood, rhaella as well.

He was chosen as king because he destroyed the Targaryen dynasty. The fact that his grandmother was a targaryen helped his claim.

Both houses have a right to the throne. And that can't be denied. Saying Targaryens have no claim is no different from baratheon having no claim

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This has been argued to death countless times.



The Targs took Westeros by conquest. They lost it by conquest. The Baratheons have not lost the throne by conquest - a fake Baratheon sits the IT while using the claim that he is Robert's heir - Stannis is fighting for the legaliy of his claim over the Twincest trio.



Stannis has been aware of Dany the whole time. He sat on the Small Council where reports of her location were given countless times. She, and Aegon, are not before Stannis in the line, and there is no reason to assume that Stannis suddenly pulls a 180 and changes his mind because he sticks to the law. Sticking to the law is why he pressed his claim, it's why despite being outnumbered he fights - He is king and nothing changes that.



Stannis' reaction to Aegon and Dany would most likely be "take a number". With all due respect, they are not his top priority. The one has 10,000 sellswords, Dorne and some lords who may take the chance. the other has 3 feral dragons and a mish-mash horde that is on the brink of destruction from war and plague and the sheer scale of the logistics to get them to the other side of Essos. The Lannisters and the Tyrells outnumber both combined and are already in Westeros with a strong hold over motst of the continent. On top of that Stannis kind of has to deal with the snowpocalypse, a couple other rebellions, Wildlings, etc. He is booked for the near future.


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Let me summarize the future of this thread for you.



StanStans will argue, until their threat go sore, that Stannis is The King and the throne is His By Rights. Others will say that king's sons, and daughters, and grandsons, and great-grandsons, still have a claim, even if their family lost the possession of the disputed thing.



No consensus will ever be reached.



/thread


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I don't think Stannis would be too bothered by her claim. His is still the strongest, as he would be the heir of the most recent king widely recognized by the lords of Westeros as legitimate.



As daughter of a deposed king, Daenerys still has a claim, but its considerably weaker than the one Stannis has.


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I don't think Stannis would be too bothered by her claim. His is still the strongest, as he would be the heir of the most recent king widely recognized by the lords of Westeros as legitimate.

As daughter of a deposed king, Daenerys still has a claim, but its considerably weaker than the one Stannis has.

1) Using hair as proof of parentage is awful evidence. Baratheon genes might have gotten weaker over the years. Until Cersei or Jaime comes out and says "these kids are bastards" he has the weaker baratheon claim.

2) The most recent king had put the realm into debt and left a mad heir on the throne which caused the realm countless deaths.

Baratheons have ruled for a short period and it's been quite disastrous.

That would leave many lords considering "are they the rightful rulers?".

In the end it comes down to who can hold it. Legit Baratheons couldn't. Stannis hasn't even been able to touch kings landing, and I doubt he ever will.

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1) Using hair as proof of parentage is awful evidence. Baratheon genes might have gotten weaker over the years. Until Cersei or Jaime comes out and says "these kids are bastards" he has the weaker baratheon claim.

2) The most recent king had put the realm into debt and left a mad heir on the throne which caused the realm countless deaths.

Baratheons have ruled for a short period and it's been quite disastrous.

That would leave many lords considering "are they the rightful rulers?".

In the end it comes down to who can hold it. Legit Baratheons couldn't. Stannis hasn't even been able to touch kings landing, and I doubt he ever will.

Stannis hater detected.

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Stannis knows that Daenerys is still alive, but he never considered her or Viserys as the legal heirs. From Baratheon point of view the Targs are out and Robert is the start of the new dynasty. So Stannis will see Dany and Aegon still as false claimants. Especially Aegon will have to prove he's real, since he is considered dead.



For most in Westeros the rightful king is Roberts legal heir, which is either Stannis or Tommen. Stannis can't properly proof that Tommen is a basterd. But he has seeded plenty of doubt with his letter and many believe Stannis is the true heir. Even Varys mentions Stannis as the true heir, while pretending to serve Tommen and while really serving Aegon. The Lannisters know Stannis has the best claim to be the Baratheon heir as well. They know it better than anyone else. Yet Tommen is the one with the most support, mostly because those who play the power games know they will lose influence, Their positions at court or even their lives if Stannis would be king. Stannis is winning support again (Northeners, Iron Bank), but far removed from KL and with battles against Boltons and The Others ahead of him he's in great risk of dying before he can ever win his throne.



This all shows a claim doesn't get you anywhere. Support is what you need and that was Stannis weakest point from the beginning. On the other hand, Renly showed that the only claim you need is a strong army and enough support. Aegon the conqueror showed it even better, he had no claim to anything besides Dragonstone and ended up ruling 7 kingdoms.



Aegon and Dany have claims too, but based on the former ruling dynasty that has been discarded. What they need to do is to make sure Westeros wants them back. Robert's fear for Viserys with a Dothraki army or for Dany giving birth to a son shows that a Targaryen claimant would still find support in Westeros (see Dorne). But they will have to win the throne by force (just like Stannis needs to do). Nobody will give it to them just because they are Targs. A Dany/Aegon/Dorne alliance would be strong enough to take the Iron throne, just like A Stannis/Renly/Tyrell alliance could have done. Can they make the alliance or will they fail like the Baratheons did?. It already seems to be crumbling.



I think the next to take the throne will be Aegon, supported by Dorne and the Faith and with Arianne as his Queen. Then we get a lot of chaos with invasions of The Others and Winter finally coming. Then Dany invaded to either get the throne or fight the Others. Add some famine and maybe Greyscale or the Pale Mare to that and three fire breathing dragons to that. Whoever survives all that and manages to take the throne and reunite the realm is welcome to it, IMO.


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It won't bother Stan's morals, they're not Baratheons. Robert Baratheon was the annointed king of the Seven Kingdoms and Stannis is his legitimate heir. I think the lady doth protest too much when it comes to duty and not wanting the throne anyway.

This. Everyone knows that Dany is alive and I think that FAegon will not be a matter for him, Dany will care about FAegon.

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The Targs took Westeros by conquest. They lost it by conquest. The Baratheons have not lost the throne by conquest - a fake Baratheon sits the IT while using the claim that he is Robert's heir - Stannis is fighting for the legaliy of his claim over the Twincest trio.

If the "Baratheons" lost the throne such as fAegon taking the throne from Tommen would you consider Dany having a better claim than Stannis then? Or other way aroundI think that fAegon has a good change of taking the throne considering that GRRM has said multiple people will take the throne and all the trouble in King´s Landing. I have never seen this point argued which seem strange since I though many think fAegon will get the throne in Winds of Winter and many think Dany is younger more beautiful Queen

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If the "Baratheons" lost the throne such as fAegon taking the throne from Tommen would you consider Dany having a better claim than Stannis then? Or other way aroundI think that fAegon has a good change of taking the throne considering that GRRM has said multiple people will take the throne and all the trouble in King´s Landing. I have never seen this point argued which seem strange since I though many think fAegon will get the throne in Winds of Winter and many think Dany is younger more beautiful Queen

I think if he wins the throne by congquest and has the support to keep it, he will be the rightful ruler. That's what made Aegon I and Robert the rightful kings too. And a new Targ dynasty starts with him. Dany is his closest relative (not counting the possibility of Jon being a Targ). So i presume that makes her first in line until Aegon produces a heir. Stannis would be second then, Shireen third. After them probably the Martells?

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If the "Baratheons" lost the throne such as fAegon taking the throne from Tommen would you consider Dany having a better claim than Stannis then?

On the contrary, it would arguably weaken her claim. Her claim derives from her father. For Stannis, through his brother who deposed her father. If she modifies her claim, basing it on being fAegon's aunt, then not only does Stannis have the advantage of being the brother of the most recently, widely accepted king in Westeros by the lords and nobles of the realm, but he also has the advantage of being a closer familial relation to his claim.

It also forces her to recognize fAegon as a legitimate king, which puts yet another king between her and her original claim.

And finally, it makes her look arbitrary and unstable to the same Westerosi lords and nobles who need to recognize her own claim. If she's constantly modifying it, that's not going to go over well.

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