Margaery the Younger, More Beautiful Queen: Or another Cersei Theory

[Kynan]

Basically, I think that Margaery will be the younger, more beautiful queen and the trail will be how Cersei Lannister is 'thrown down'. I think that instead of being killed or anything, she will lose her rights as a 'queen', therefore throwing down Cersei. That will enrage here and she will set Frankenstein Mountain out on the Tyrells, which accidentally kills Margaery and Tommen. She then offers, under the suggestion of someone with more smarts, to marry Myrcella once the betrothal to the Dorne boy is ended to a Tyrell boy, without success. Mrcella, meanwhile, will be brought down with the Martells to meet Aegon, who will treat her well. Cersei will have her crowned without her being there and Myrcella will a somehow die, perhaps by greyscale unknowingly brought by Tyrion. Now without her children, Cersei will burn down King's Landing and this shall be Tyrion killing her, as he destroyed her last hope and drove her to this. What do you think?

[Balerion the kitten]

The way the text for the prophecy goes it seems fairly likely the valonqar is the younger sibling to the other queen.

Cersei has cast herself down. She also has successfully managed to push people she cares about away from her.

As for the valonqar, that's jaime. There's so many parallels between Cersei and Aerys that I find it hard to NOT believe she'll burn kings landing and that jaime will kill her.

As someone else said, no one would be able to get close enough to Cersei to strangle her other than jaime. And that it would be a nice fit if he did kill her.

Tyrion killed his dad and lover. Jaime killed his dad and lover.

Cause I personally believe A+J=C+J.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

the trail will be how Cersei Lannister is 'thrown down'. I think that instead of being killed or anything, she will lose her rights as a 'queen', therefore throwing down Cersei.

I don't understand what you mean here. Could you elaborate on your theory?

[TerrorVoid]

I don't understand what you mean here. Could you elaborate on your theory?

Basically Kevan's words from DWD epilogue.

[kimim]

The way the text for the prophecy goes it seems fairly likely the valonqar is the younger sibling to the other queen.

Cersei has cast herself down. She also has successfully managed to push people she cares about away from her.

As for the valonqar, that's jaime. There's so many parallels between Cersei and Aerys that I find it hard to NOT believe she'll burn kings landing and that jaime will kill her.

As someone else said, no one would be able to get close enough to Cersei to strangle her other than jaime. And that it would be a nice fit if he did kill her.

Tyrion killed his dad and lover. Jaime killed his dad and lover.

Cause I personally believe A+J=C+J.

ita, Cersei casts herself down.

This is so obvious, that I wonder if the "younger, more beautiful" person is Cersei herself, as a young woman. Had she turned away, she would probably be in a better position as queen. She wanted to listen, and began her own downfall.

[Byfort of Corfe]

I think that a problem with Margaery being the younger more beautiful Queen is that she isn't and has never actually been Queen. Since neither Tommen or Joff is the legitimate King she isn't legitimately a Queen.

[Balerion the kitten]

I think that a problem with Margaery being the younger more beautiful Queen is that she isn't and has never actually been Queen. Since neither Tommen or Joff is the legitimate King she isn't legitimately a Queen.

He's not a legit baratheon. But he's the legitimate king.

He sits the throne, he rules westeros (well not really but you know what I mean) and that makes him a king in his own right. Therefore Margaery is his queen.

[evren]

younger and more beautiful queen? hmmm...let me think. daenerys maybe?

[The Snark of Winterfell]

Margery is absolutely a Queen, but I don't think that she is the younger more beautiful Queen, I tend to think it's Dany or Sansa, because Cersei expects it to be Margery because she is in front of her at the moment and Cersei is always wrong. Same reason I think the valonqar is Jamie. Cersei has always suspected Tyrion, but Jamie is the younger twin. I agree with Balerion, Cersei burns this down city, Jamie strangles her, the parallels to Aerys are perfect. (I am starting to believe that there is a shot the valonqar might be Tommen, probably out of sheer restlessness in waiting for the next book, but I don't think the shroud comment has to mean her children have to die before the valonqar takes Cerise's life).

I don't get the Cersei as the younger more beautiful Queen thing. I completely understand herself casting herself down as she is going batshit crazy, but I don't understand her being the younger more beautiful queen. Is this because her actions when she was considered the great beauty and Queen caused bald crazy Cersei to fall?

[Balerion the kitten]

I don't get the Cersei as the younger more beautiful Queen thing. I completely understand herself casting herself down as she is going batshit crazy, but I don't understand her being the younger more beautiful queen. Is this because her actions when she was considered the great beauty and Queen caused bald crazy Cersei to fall?

It can be argued that the YMBQ is a representation of all the mistakes she made when she was younger and more beautiful. Or another version were (not to sure the grammar works here) it's not another queen but another her.

Cersei: When will I wed the prince?

Maggy: Never. You will wed the king.

Cersei: I will be queen, though?

Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.

Definition of another- used to refer to an additional person or thing of the same type as one already mentioned or known about; one more.

The idea being the prophecy isn't about a queen but instead another version of Cersei where she was younger and more beautiful. "Queen you shall be... until another". Another you, not another queen.

And that other cersei was the one who walked into the tent, where maggy the frog probably placed a curse on her. Even if it wasn't Cersei sealed her fate when she walked into the tent. So you could say the child Cersei cast the future one down and took all she held dear by not walking away.

[KINGpanther]

younger and more beautiful queen? hmmm...let me think. daenerys maybe?

Yep, to me the you+bea Queen won't be Margaery. While Marg fits the prophecy I think the Queen will be someone Cercei underestimates. Dany, the Queen who Cercei ignores or my pick, Sansa.

[Dolorous22]

I think Maggy knew exactly what to say to Cersei to royally screw her over and it's worked like a dream. Once it's all done and dusted it will be a case of insert name here. There is no evidence in the text that can make a persuasive argument for anyone in particular but, just for the hell of it I pick,

YMBQ: Sansa. I like the idea that LF want's to scheme his way into KL and Queen Sansa is the key to it.
Valonqar: Jaime. I think he'll do 'em both. Their relationship is ultimately a tragic one so it'd be a fitting end.

[Night's Princess]

IMO the YMBQ is Sansa (heir to Winterfell, the Eyrie someday, and if Tyrion dies she'll be the heir to Casterly Rock, won't she?)

Valonqar I hadn't even thought about Jamie for this but yeah, especially when Cersei burns the Hand's Tower? Parallels everywhere.

[Archmaester_Aemma]

It can be argued that the YMBQ is a representation of all the mistakes she made when she was younger and more beautiful. Or another version were (not to sure the grammar works here) it's not another queen but another her.

Cersei: When will I wed the prince?

Maggy: Never. You will wed the king.

Cersei: I will be queen, though?

Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.

Definition of another- used to refer to an additional person or thing of the same type as one already mentioned or known about; one more.

The idea being the prophecy isn't about a queen but instead another version of Cersei where she was younger and more beautiful. "Queen you shall be... until another". Another you, not another queen.

And that other cersei was the one who walked into the tent, where maggy the frog probably placed a curse on her. Even if it wasn't Cersei sealed her fate when she walked into the tent. So you could say the child Cersei cast the future one down and took all she held dear by not walking away.

The problem here is that, grammatically, that doesn't make sense. In much the same way that Rhaegar states "There must be another" about the heads of the dragon - it has to be another dragon, that's what you're referring to, that the only solution that makes grammatical sense. I don't believe that even GRRM is convoluted enough to try and reword things like that.

[Balerion the kitten]

The problem here is that, grammatically, that doesn't make sense. In much the same way that Rhaegar states "There must be another" about the heads of the dragon - it has to be another dragon, that's what you're referring to, that the only solution that makes grammatical sense. I don't believe that even GRRM is convoluted enough to try and reword things like that.

That's what I said, I'm not sure if that was grammatically correct.

I was answering a post that asked how Cersei was the younger more beautiful queen. I simply answered with theories I heard. If you look at my post I said it was another version.

[Byfort of Corfe]

If merely being Tommen of Joffrey entitled them to be the legitimate king then Cersei has nothing to fear in people finding out that they are Jaime's children. She can scream it from the rooftops, but no, what gave their claims legitimacy is the belief that they were sired by Robert. They weren't, their claims to the throne are illegitimate. They are Lannisters, through and through, they don't have either Targaryen or Baratheon blood. Neither of them has any more claim to the throne than Varys or LF does. Stannis, Dany, and perhaps Aegon are the legitimate heirs to the throne. Margery is the widow of one pretender and the wife of another.

[Lady of Lys]

It seems to me that prophecies has a way of fulfilling themselves, or rather, they get fulfilled by the ones who act on them. So, in a way, it does not really matter who is truly the younger queen. What matters is who Cersei thinks is the younger queen and then she will act on that, creating her own downfall. (In the way that Voldemort chose his enemy by marking Harry instead of Neville. )

At this point Cersei believes that Margaery is her enemy and she is acting on that. It can end in two ways 1, Cersei is taken down by Margaery making her the younger queen. 2. Cersei wins. In that case I believe Cersei to be paranoid enough to find a new enemy, and so on, until she has found the one who brings her down.

IMO Cersei will be the one who creates her own enemy and in doing so, she creates her own downfall. Her only way of staying in power is to forget the prophesy.

So, my first post on this forum. Go easy on my english, its not my native language. :-)

[Sparklehorse]

Makes no sense. Cersei can't lose her rights as Queen, because Maggy's prophecy says 'gold shall be their crowns'. Myrcella needs to be crowned first for that to happen. She'll win her trial.

Margaery being the YMBQ is a massive red herring, the chances of her dying in the next book are quite high (as her death would ensure chaos in King's Landing- if GRRM really wants the world to go to shit, he'd kill her off, plus shes not a POV).

[The Snark of Winterfell]

Makes no sense. Cersei can't lose her rights as Queen, because Maggy's prophecy says 'gold shall be their crowns'. Myrcella needs to be crowned first for that to happen. She'll win her trial.

Margaery being the YMBQ is a massive red herring, the chances of her dying in the next book are quite high (as her death would ensure chaos in King's Landing- if GRRM really wants the world to go to shit, he'd kill her off, plus shes not a POV).

Myrcella was declared rightful queen by Dorne, no crown yet, but she is queen the way some of the Kings in the Wot5K. If the crown part isn't fulfilled yet, it's pretty close.

[SevasTra82]

I don't know who the "younger queen" is, but I can almost bet it's not Margaery, mainly because it's too obvious, and the fact that Cersei herself believes it's her. She is dead set on Margaery and Tyrion being the ones mentioned in the prophecy that it's going to end up NOT being them.