Daeron the Good: Bastard

[Ratmancampidori]

Does anyone belive the theory the Daeron the Good, was a bastard? Making the Blackfyres the legitimate Kings of Westeros.

[Ser Pounce's Mum]

Daeron not being legitimate doesn't make Daemon king. The crown would go to the eldest, and since Aegon gave a carte blanche legitimation to ALL his bastards, chances are that would be some servant's kid.

But either way, even if Daeron was illegitimate, he'd be Aemon's kid, hence still close enough to succession for me to not give a wee about his exact parentage. He was the right guy for the job.

[Balerion the kitten]

Naerys was a pious women. Aemon was an honourable guy.

Adultery and Incest are a big no to the seven. Why would she do both.

Aemon clearly took vows seriously. As seen when he died for a brother and a king he didn't like.

Them having an affair would both go against what they thought and believed.

Can't Targaryen brothers and sisters have a platonic reletionship.

[XSarellaX]

I don't think Naerys cheated on Aegon with Aemon, but I certainly wish she had.

[XSarellaX]

I don't think Naerys cheated on Aegon with Aemon, but I certainly wish she had.

[Lord Varys]

Nope, Daeron isn't a bastard. But Aenys I very well might not be the Conqueror's son.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Does anyone belive the theory the Daeron the Good, was a bastard? Making the Blackfyres the legitimate Kings of Westeros.

I believe Daeron II was the son of the Dragonknight. In Samwell I, Feast 5, we learned that Daeron II was rumored to have been fathered by Aemon Targaryen of the Kingsguard called the Dragonknight, and not by Aegon IV the Unworthy. And we recalled that even Maester Aemon leant credibility to the rumor when he told Jon Snow of his own heritage way back in Game. Sansa had told us back in Storm that Naerys was Aegon's sister and queen, and that he never harmed her, perhaps out of fear for their brother the Dragonknight. And the very attentive reader would have recalled way back in Game, when Sansa was about to go riding with Joffrey near the Trident, she told us that Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championed Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders. A little later, when the Ned told Sansa that her engagement with Joffrey would soon be over, she suggested that Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. In Clash, she suggested that Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon. A song was sung about the romance during the Battle of the Blackwater. As Meera was telling Bran about the Tourney at Harrenhal, Bran was telling us that the Dragonknight once won a tourney as the Knight of Tears, so he could name his sister the queen of love and beauty in place of the king's mistress. A few chapters later in Feast, Arys Oakheart suggested that the tale of Prince Aemon's treason with Queen Naerys was only that, a tale, a lie his brother told when he wished to set his trueborn son aside in favor of his bastard. However, it was clear that Arys was fighting his lust for Arianne, and losing miserably, so his denial lacked at least some credibility.

However, I don't necessarily believe Daemon was the "rightful" heir.

[Gibzit]

I think that the Dragonknight and Naerys loved eachother, but never had a child.

[Anath]

If Daeron was a bastard, that would put Westeros in a tight spot: finding Aegon's oldest real son. It might not have been even the child of the Black Pearl. And if he was, that would make Baelor-Who-Looked-Too-Martell-ish a pure Targaryen, purer than all the purity in the world in comparison.

Luckily, Daeron wasn't a bastard, with Naerys and Aemon being the stickers for religion and honour that they were.

[Balerion the kitten]

If Daeron was a bastard, that would put Westeros in a tight spot: finding Aegon's oldest real son. It might not have been even the child of the Black Pearl. And if he was, that would make Baelor-Who-Looked-Too-Martell-ish a pure Targaryen, purer than all the purity in the world in comparison.

It said in the world book the black pearl and Aegons son, balerion, had a doubtful paternity.

[Anath]

It said in the world book the black pearl and Aegons son, balerion, had a doubtful paternity.

What about Aegon wasn't doubtful? Frankly, how was he to know that Daemon was even his? Daena wasn't mentioned among the women he loved, wasn't mentioned to have held any influence at his court and it looks like it was a brief thing. I imagine she was attracted to him because he was as different from Baelor as humanly possible. She could have had affairs with half the men at King's Landing during her escapades and still have a child who looked like her. After all, Daeron and Mariah did have children who took entirely after one parent.

In fact, I think Daena might have looked at what Aegon became (provided that she lived this long) and thought, "Damn it, all this time in the bloody Vault must have addled my wits for a while. Why else would I choose THIS?"

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Adultery and Incest are a big no to the seven. Why would she do both.

She was already incesting.

In any case Daena should had come before Viserys so the Throne would be hers.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Daeron not being legitimate doesn't make Daemon king. The crown would go to the eldest, and since Aegon gave a carte blanche legitimation to ALL his bastards, chances are that would be some servant's kid.

But either way, even if Daeron was illegitimate, he'd be Aemon's kid, hence still close enough to succession for me to not give a wee about his exact parentage. He was the right guy for the job.

Reading through the world book, it looks as if the only other possible older male would have been Balerion with the Black Pearl, but we're not given a date, just a range of about a decade. So if Daeron II was a bastard, the succession would look something like this: Balerion (?), Daemon, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, all the females who don't necessarily matter

Doubtful paternity aside, Daemon would likely be the most popular candidate and most likely successor for many reasons. He wields Blackfyre. He's immensely influential in non-Dornish circles. He's Targaryen on both sides. Then you get to the great warrior, charismatic, et al. If a Great Council were held with Daeron either attainted or just not an option, I don't think anyone else would be chosen.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It really doesn't matter much in universe. Aegon will claim the throne as Rhaegar's son. Daenerys will claim it as the last trueborn Targaryen heir if she opposes Aegon for being a Blackfyre (and I don't see how she opposes him legitimately otherwise--unless maybe Aerys attainted Rhaegar and his heirs before his back ran into the Kingslayer's sword). But readers have been given enough to know that Aegon descends from the Unworthy while Daenerys and Jon descend from the Dragonknight.

[Bael's Bastard]

Does anyone belive the theory the Daeron the Good, was a bastard? Making the Blackfyres the legitimate Kings of Westeros.

No I don't believe it, and even if it were true, nothing was ever done to officially delegitimize him and his descendants, so it is irrelevant at this point.

[NorthGirl]

Hopefully he is. Nothing would make me happier to see this confirmed. Also, as far as lineage goes, that would still make him equal to Daemon since he would still have two Targaryen parents. If anything that would just make him a Blackfyre as well and their status would still be the same, illegitimate claimants to the thrones.

[LordStoneheart]

Naerys was a pious women. Aemon was an honourable guy.

Adultery and Incest are a big no to the seven. Why would she do both.

Aemon clearly took vows seriously. As seen when he died for a brother and a king he didn't like.

Them having an affair would both go against what they thought and believed.

Can't Targaryen brothers and sisters have a platonic reletionship.

[Ser Pounce's Mum]

Reading through the world book, it looks as if the only other possible older male would have been Balerion with the Black Pearl, but we're not given a date, just a range of about a decade. So if Daeron II was a bastard, the succession would look something like this: Balerion (?), Daemon, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, all the females who don't necessarily matter

Doubtful paternity aside, Daemon would likely be the most popular candidate and most likely successor for many reasons. He wields Blackfyre. He's immensely influential in non-Dornish circles. He's Targaryen on both sides. Then you get to the great warrior, charismatic, et al. If a Great Council were held with Daeron either attainted or just not an option, I don't think anyone else would be chosen.

The World-book only lists the Great Bastards, though. It also says that on his deathbed "he legitimised all of his natural children, from the most baseborn to the Great Bastards". (p. 97) And seeing how Aegon is said to have had sex every night of his life from age 14 on some of those baseborn bastards MUST be males born in the 21 years between their dad's deflowering and Daemon's birth.

Sure, his official mistresses only gave birth to daughters and Balerion (questionable paternity) until then, but he said himself that he had had sex with over 900 women (and I sort of doubt his respective mistress was available EVERY night as well. Journeys, periods, pregnancies, quarrels,...), so he didn't exactly stay faithful to his mistresses.

Long story short, as long as the Aegon-experience didn't come with a compulsory dose of moon tea for every girl before 170AC, Daemon just can't be the oldest boy. Statistically speaking.

Yes, obviously Daemon would be the most popular candidate, given his dad's lobbying - but the thread didn't ask for popularity but for "the legitimate king" ;) The legitimate/rightful one would be the oldest, even though he wouldn't stand a chance in 'reality'. Stannis says hi.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, if Daeron II was not Aegon's son, then some other legitimized baseborn son of his would have a better claim than Daemon Blackfyre and his ilk. But then, Aegon actually recognized and treated Daeron as his son throughout his whole life. I imagine he could (and would) have proclaimed him a bastard on his deathbed, no? If kings can make bastards legitimate then they should also be able to make legitimate children illegitimate I imagine.

[Cat of the Rivers]

Yeah, if Daeron II was not Aegon's son, then some other legitimized baseborn son of his would have a better claim than Daemon Blackfyre and his ilk. But then, Aegon actually recognized and treated Daeron as his son throughout his whole life. I imagine he could (and would) have proclaimed him a bastard on his deathbed, no? If kings can make bastards legitimate then they should also be able to make legitimate children illegitimate I imagine.

That would cause political shitstorms; particularly with kings that have the same revolting personality as Aegon IV. Don't like that lord but his younger half brother pleases you? Simply declare the lord a bastard and have his titles, lands and incomes go to his half brother! Want to troll that little brother that you hate or remove him from the line of succession? Declare him a bastard!

Also what would even be the benefits of such an act? Legitimizing bastards is what you do when you're incredibly desperate for an heir. A la Robb's will. That would simply cause problems all around and would give the king way too much authority. You could prove that the children are bastards like Cersei's children, though but in a world without DNA tests that's near impossible.