Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D: To Kill a Mockingbird

[Corvinus85]

Crap! did some shit happen in the final seconds of the episode to Simmons? I missed the last few seconds after Fitz started walking out.

The door of the box was slightly open thanks to Fitz. Gemma tried to close it when that thing burst out, swallowed her up, and went back into a solid state.

[The Anti-Targ]

The door of the box was slightly open thanks to Fitz. Gemma tried to close it when that thing burst out, swallowed her up, and went back into a solid state.

Well I knew something was gonna happen to one of them after Simmons went all lovey dovey on Fitz. I just thought it would happen to Fitz.

If that thing is deadly to Inhumans then maybe it's opposite to the mist and doesn't really harm non-inhumans. Or maybe Simmons is an inhuman

I wondered when the quinet full of crystals went into the sea if we would get some inFishies or InSharkens. But I guess we've finally discovered how to get the impurities out to make it non-harmful to ordinary people.

I liked that they wiped Cal's memory and gave him a new life. But I wonder if perhaps, like Coulson, things will eventually come back to him.

[Jon AS]

The finale was a good example of the show simplifying conflicts to dodge difficult questions. SHIELD doesn't have to do any soul-searching about their methods and attitudes because the Inhuman leadership is so clearly evil and needs to be stopped.

Ward is evil anyway, but apparently the writers felt it necessary to drive that point home some more. The character has added absolutely nothing to the second half of the season (and his value in the first half was at least questionable), so they could have avoided that issue and gained a whole lot of screentime to focus on more central plots if they had just killed him off. Though using him as a true antagonist next season could be a smart move, keeping the actor around on his original series regular contract might be cheaper than hiring a special guest star for the job.

Some of the action in the episode was pretty good, but what was with the random slo-mo effects when Skye took on Multiple Woman? Similarly, Cal hulking out either needed less or much more elaborate effects work, the cheapskate middle ground option they went for just looked pretty stupid. It's been MacLachlan's performance that sold the character all along, if they didn't have the money they should have just trusted him to do it till the end.

Uh, and speaking of his end: I guess assisted suicide is uncontroversial enough these days to not make it a big deal?

Setup for next season involves the (so far) useless macguffin killing/subsuming Simmons and people possibly developing superpowers through food supplements. Kind of underwhelming, I was hoping we'd get some hints at other Inhuman communities or some such. I get that the show is partly meant to portray the intersection of the ordinary and extraordinary sides of the MCU, but I couldn't help but laugh at the fish oil montage.

[The BlackBear]

I liked the Ward stuff :dunno:

Seriously disappointed with Mr Hyde though.

Generally enjoyed the finale.

HYDRA really seem to follow the Bald of Evil rule.

What's the betting Coulson gets a shiny robot hand?

Morse should not have been able to stop that bullet though, Ward said it was at head height (blow brains out) so how did Morse in a chair manage to get shot in the shoulder? Was Ward expecting a midget? Also how did she get free from those cuffs?

[RumHam]

The finale was a good example of the show simplifying conflicts to dodge difficult questions. SHIELD doesn't have to do any soul-searching about their methods and attitudes because the Inhuman leadership is so clearly evil and needs to be stopped.

Ward is evil anyway, but apparently the writers felt it necessary to drive that point home some more. The character has added absolutely nothing to the second half of the season (and his value in the first half was at least questionable), so they could have avoided that issue and gained a whole lot of screentime to focus on more central plots if they had just killed him off. Though using him as a true antagonist next season could be a smart move, keeping the actor around on his original series regular contract might be cheaper than hiring a special guest star for the job.

Some of the action in the episode was pretty good, but what was with the random slo-mo effects when Skye took on Multiple Woman? Similarly, Cal hulking out either needed less or much more elaborate effects work, the cheapskate middle ground option they went for just looked pretty stupid. It's been MacLachlan's performance that sold the character all along, if they didn't have the money they should have just trusted him to do it till the end.

I agree with all of this.

Uh, and speaking of his end: I guess assisted suicide is uncontroversial enough these days to not make it a big deal?

Assisted suicide? It seems like they just wiped parts of his memory and let him go back to leading a normal life.

They could have been clearer on the fate of the Inhumans. It seems like Skye is not going to leave Shield and become their leader, but I don't think we have any idea what happened to all the other people in Afterlife. Or how Shield is going to deal with them in the future.

Edit: The Kree rock/liquid thing that ate Simmons was supposed to be some kinda anti-Inhumans measure, right? Maybe Simmons will be spit back out as some kinda Inhuman-killing machine?

[Leofric]

I agree with all of this.

They could have been clearer on the fate of the Inhumans. It seems like Skye is not going to leave Shield and become their leader, but I don't think we have any idea what happened to all the other people in Afterlife. Or how Shield is going to deal with them in the future.

The noncombatants from Afterlife were moved by Gordon to an unknown location after he destroyed the tracking device. Of the ones who attacked the ship, seems most are dead, including Jiaying, Gordon, and the guy in the quinjet that Skye tossed overboard. Only ones left alive seem to be Luke, who switched sides, and the ginger ninja, who Luke zapped.

[Jon AS]

Assisted suicide? It seems like they just wiped parts of his memory and let him go back to leading a normal life.

They wiped away his whole identity, his memory, name, personality and even turned him from an MD into a vet. All that was left of Cal at the end was the physical body, he didn't even have a hint of recognition when faced with the daughter he put above everything in his original life. Cal is dead, SHIELD killed him, and considering that he wasn't a threat any more he must have requested the procedure. Ergo SHIELD helped him commit suicide.

[Kindly Old Man]

Uh, and speaking of his end: I guess assisted suicide is uncontroversial enough these days to not make it a big deal?

Assisted suicide? It seems like they just wiped parts of his memory and let him go back to leading a normal life.

I'm glad you guys brought this up, because some review I was reading said that he got off light, whereas I was thinking that they basically just executed him. Whatever memories they wiped, it seems like they erased at least the entire last 27 years of his life, which to me means that the person he was is essentially dead and there is someone else using his body now. That's just my opinion on it and obviously many feel differently.

Edit: ha, got ninja'd by Jon with the same explanation

[RumHam]

Given the choice between being executed or spending the rest of my life in a cell I'd take the mind wipe no question. Considering how deranged he was and the guilt he must have had over all the people he killed, his wife most of all, I think the mind wipe was doing him a favor. If anything Daisy is the one who suffers from it. Cal isn't even aware of what he's lost and seemed pretty happy.

[Jon AS]

Given the choice between being executed or spending the rest of my life in a cell I'd take the mind wipe no question. Considering how deranged he was and the guilt he must have had over all the people he killed, his wife most of all, I think the mind wipe was doing him a favor. If anything Daisy is the one who suffers from it. Cal isn't even aware of what he's lost and seemed pretty happy.

I'm not trying to argue the pros and cons of suicide or that choosing to die isn't a fitting end for the character, I'm just saying the show is (once again) trying to have its cake and eat it, too, by pretending that this means they have found some clever third option and Cal isn't really dead. It's not clever, it's not new and he is very much deceased.

[Kindly Old Man]

Given the choice between being executed or spending the rest of my life in a cell I'd take the mind wipe no question. Considering how deranged he was and the guilt he must have had over all the people he killed, his wife most of all, I think the mind wipe was doing him a favor. If anything Daisy is the one who suffers from it. Cal isn't even aware of what he's lost and seemed pretty happy.

Yeah this is where I don't agree. Given the choice between being executed (painlessly, shot to the back of the head or something) and having my mind wiped, I'd be indifferent - I'm still gone either way. If Cal were executed, his guilt would be gone, and he wouldn't be aware of what he'd lost. Is it supposed to be a consolation that something is still walking around in his flesh?

[felice]

Cal is dead, SHIELD killed him, and considering that he wasn't a threat any more he must have requested the procedure. Ergo SHIELD helped him commit suicide.

I didn't spot any indication that he was given a choice in the matter, I don't believe SHIELD would have any compunction about doing it without consent, and I don't believe Cal would ever willingly let anyone erase Daisy from his memory. Their last conversation certainly gave the impression he was hoping to be visited in prison, not for her to visit someone who wouldn't have any idea who she was. Definitely an execution.

[SpaceChampion]

I don't think Simmons was at all lovey-dovey with Fitz. I think she thought pretending to be interested in Fitz romantically was the only way he'd give her a chance to restore their friendship. Assuming she's not dead and not fundamentally altered by whatever happened there, her attempts with Fitz is going to backfire on her once he realises she's not serious. She's probably hoping that he comes to see they work out only as friends, not romantic partners. The awkward interactions are going to be wince-inducing.

[The Anti-Targ]

They wiped away his whole identity, his memory, name, personality and even turned him from an MD into a vet. All that was left of Cal at the end was the physical body, he didn't even have a hint of recognition when faced with the daughter he put above everything in his original life. Cal is dead, SHIELD killed him, and considering that he wasn't a threat any more he must have requested the procedure. Ergo SHIELD helped him commit suicide.

Well it's a philosophical debate that will have advocates on both sides. Personally I kind of prefer having Cal pay his debt to society by becoming a highly productive citizen than spending the rest of his life rotting in prison. Or considering his crimes were probably federal he was probably up for the death penalty. Maybe he was sentenced to death and this is how Coulsen and S.H.I.E.L.D chose to carry out the death sentence, because it is best not to piss off someone with earthquake powers.

[The Anti-Targ]

I don't think Simmons was at all lovey-dovey with Fitz. I think she thought pretending to be interested in Fitz romantically was the only way he'd give her a chance to restore their friendship. Assuming she's not dead and not fundamentally altered by whatever happened there, her attempts with Fitz is going to backfire on her once he realises she's not serious. She's probably hoping that he comes to see they work out only as friends, not romantic partners. The awkward interactions are going to be wince-inducing.

Considering her emotional reaction after Fitz walked out of the room, in that moment I think Simmons had genuinely romantic feelings. I don;t think Simmons is that good at faking. Perhaps in the cold light of day, Fitz now having survived a risky mission, Simmons is rethinking her level of affection for Fitz.

[Jon AS]

I didn't spot any indication that he was given a choice in the matter, I don't believe SHIELD would have any compunction about doing it without consent, and I don't believe Cal would ever willingly let anyone erase Daisy from his memory. Their last conversation certainly gave the impression he was hoping to be visited in prison, not for her to visit someone who wouldn't have any idea who she was. Definitely an execution.

While I agree that it's hard to believe he would have them erase his memories of Skye, if he sees it as dying it makes sense to me. Their last conversation had a very final feel to it.

If SHIELD did this to him without his consent, the only credible consequence once Skye finds out is to completely break with Coulson's gang, and as the Skye-Coulson relationship is clearly the showrunners' favourite, I don't see that happening. So from a meta perspective it has to have been voluntarily.

Well it's a philosophical debate that will have advocates on both sides. Personally I kind of prefer having Cal pay his debt to society by becoming a highly productive citizen than spending the rest of his life rotting in prison. Or considering his crimes were probably federal he was probably up for the death penalty. Maybe he was sentenced to death and this is how Coulsen and S.H.I.E.L.D chose to carry out the death sentence, because it is best not to piss off someone with earthquake powers.

Cal isn't doing anything, his artificial replacement that was created in his body is. That argument also ignores the fact that SHIELD has no legal authority, and probably even before it was officially disbanded didn't have the right to do something this drastic to a person. It's one thing to empower your intelligence organisations to hold people prsoner in secret locations in violation of human rights, it's another to allow them to casually execute/mindwipe people without a lengthy legal process. And well, there was neither the time for this nor, again, any legal standing for SHIELD's actions. This is actually horrifying on several levels, the arrogance on display staggering, but the show will never deal with it.

[voodooqueen126]

It is interesting how pro-authority (the debate about Cal's fate is an interesting example I think) the show is. Sort of like the opposite of X-Men.

[dog-days]

I don't think Cal is 100% gone. His personality and mannerisms seem similar to what they were in his more lucid moments from the show; he retains a positive association with the name Daisy; on top of that, he's in a caring profession that seems to offer him fulfillment, and builds on what was presumably the dominant part of his nature before he ran into Hydra.

I'd like to know exactly how it was decided on that Cal should undergo Project Tahiti - when I watched Cal's last two scenes, my guess was that Cal had been offered a choice between being handed over to the Muggle normal authorities, which would result in execution or life-time imprisonment, and being wiped.

If that's right, than Cal perhaps chose Tahiti since it would allow NewCal to use his abilities to help people. Or help labradors, anyway. Which I'm sure their owners very much appreciate. He was presumably not rebooted into a medical doctor, since the possible frequent exposure to situations similar to those he'd encountered in his former life could undo Tahiti's effects.

[felice]

While I agree that it's hard to believe he would have them erase his memories of Skye, if he sees it as dying it makes sense to me. Their last conversation had a very final feel to it.

If SHIELD did this to him without his consent, the only credible consequence once Skye finds out is to completely break with Coulson's gang, and as the Skye-Coulson relationship is clearly the showrunners' favourite, I don't see that happening.

The conversation had a final feel because Skye knew what was going to happen to him; it was a lot like her playing along with the plan to exile him from Afterlife. The showrunners don't see mindwiping as a bad thing, so Skye doesn't see it as a bad thing.

[Jon AS]

It is interesting how pro-authority (the debate about Cal's fate is an interesting example I think) the show is. Sort of like the opposite of X-Men.

It's the complete lack of oversight and accountability in this whole thing that gets me. I mean, some of it is clearly just shitty worldbuilding, but Coulson has acted as if he has the right to play with people's life in any way he wants to since the beginning of season 1, and he was just the leader of a lowly field team then, with a command structure above him and presumably bound to follow certain guidelines.

The conversation had a final feel because Skye knew what was going to happen to him; it was a lot like her playing along with the plan to exile him from Afterlife. The showrunners don't see mindwiping as a bad thing, so Skye doesn't see it as a bad thing.

Well that's a disgusting thought. Why are we supposed to root for Team Coulson again?