AFFC Reread Project - Samwell (+Prologue)

[cteresa]

Thread to discuss Sam´s PoV chapters and the Prologue. Provisory schedule dates to start such discussion

28-Nov-05 Prologue page 1 to 17

12-Dez-05 Samwell 1 page 71 to 86

23-Jan-06 Samwell 2 page 215 to 225

6-Mar-06 Samwell 3 page 377 to 390

3-Abr-06 Samwell 4 page 519 to 528

8-Mai-06 Samwell 5 page 672

Will change above if there are any mistakes (please let me know!) or alterations.

[IshtarNZ]

Warning: long post ahead! I had far more to say about this Prologue than I thought!

Let the re-read begin!

I have the Australia (UK) edition trade paperback (the large-sized paperback).

First Impressions

First up, the title of the book. This book is primarily, I think, about the aftermath of war – the War of Five Kings is all but over, and the Seven Kingdoms have been badly scarred. So clearly that’s the main implication of the title.

Cover art – pretty innocuous on my edition – the cover is mainly a dark, burnt red with a stone-like texture, with a picture of a golden chalice or goblet on the front. I have no idea what chalice this is – Joffrey’s wedding chalice perhaps? So the cover doesn’t give away much at all.

Also, this is a fair-sized book. 684 pages. Not huge, but not small either. A good chunk of a book. Too big to lie in bed and read, I have to sit up ïŠ

Dedication

Stephen Boucher – presumably someone who helps GRRM with his computer problems. Anyone know who this is and how he’s significant to GRRM?

Maps

I have three maps – Iron Islands, The North, and The South. The maps are not as good as previous editions – hardly any detail at all and very disappointing, I have to say. It was good to get a close-up map of the Iron Islands but it doesn’t really tell you much. A more detailed map of Dorne would have been really nice. I’m quite big on maps, I like to be able to refer to them when a place is mentioned so I can see where things are in relation to each other, and I wasn’t very happy with these maps.

Prologue

New characters mentioned:

Mollander, Alleras the Sphinx, Roone, Rosey, Pate, Emma, Armen the Acolyte, Archmaester Ebrose, Lazy Leo, the alchemist, Archmaester Walgrave, Maester Gormon, Archmaester Benedict, Archmaester Vaellyn, Perestan, Mollos, the Mage (Archmaester Marwyn), Archmaester Perestan, Archmaester Ryam, Ser Moryn Tyrell

Known characters mentioned:

Renly, Balon Greyjoy, Viserys (“the Beggar Kingâ€), Rhaegar, Aegon, Daenerys, Varys (“the Spider’), Maester Cressen, Stannis, Tywin, Mace Tyrell, Lord Leyton Hightower

Setting:

The Inn the residents of the Citadel frequent in Oldtown.

“Dragons.†Clearly, as the first word of the book, dragons are important. But why? We know Dany isn’t in this book. These people are talking about Dragons, and that the last dragons in Westeros all a long time ago. They discuss sailor’s stories about Dragons – “Dragons in Asshai, dragons in Qarth, dragons in Meereen, Dothraki dragons, dragons freeing slaves…†All but the first are clearly Dany as she moves about, but Asshai? Dragons in Asshai have been mentioned before – by Bran in his dream after he was thrown. Hmm. A “beautiful young queen†is also mentioned – clearly Dany.

Straight away, I think there’s a significant clue that Alleras is important – all of the characters have nicknames given to them by Lazy Leo, but only Alleras is defined by their nickname. Almost every time Alleras is mentioned, we are reminded of his nickname, the Sphinx. Armen is of course mentioned as “the Acolyte†but this only illustrates that he is slightly more advanced than the others and doesn’t contribute anything to his character.

The Sphinx is an important and mysterious character in Greek mythology, and one that has worked its way into general knowledge. Most people know what a Sphinx is and what they represent. Significantly, a Sphinx is traditionally a *female* monster!

In hindsight, I feel like I’m being whacked over the head with this by GRRM, but I made no connection at all between the Alleras in the prologue and the Sarella in the first Dorne chapter until I read it on the board, and then I felt so stupid for missing it! I don’t think there’s any question that Alleras and Sarella are the same person. The description of Alleras, with his widow’s peak and curly black hair, is very similar to descriptions of Oberyn and his Sand Snakes. He is described as having a mother from the Summer Isles and a Dornish father. Leo speaks of Alleras as a “lord’s son†and Alleras says he is no lord’s son, but then only mentions who his mother was, and makes no mention of his father. At first I thought that perhaps Alleras and Sarella were twins. But now I know better!

It took me a while the first time to work out where this chapter was set and who these characters were. Because it was so unfamiliar, and we were plunged into it so quickly, I was a little disappointed we didn’t get more of a view of the Citadel and Oldtown. But hopefully we’ll get more in later books. Also, a lot of new characters and concepts are introduced in passing, so comments like “Ebrose might not think him worthy of the silver†confused me at first.

I didn’t like Mollander saying Alleras coring the apple with his arrow was “sweet†– it seemed anachronistic to me, and when he said it I immediately heard it in my mind in Cartman from South Park’s voice, so it grated on me. It seemed a contrived way to bring the narrative back around to Pate’s thoughts of Rosey.

It’s clear that Pate is the central voice of the prologue. It’s his thoughts we are given access to. Pate seems to resent his lowly station in life and wants to rise higher. He wants to be a maester so he can be above the common folk – both literally on a “fine white horse†but also metaphorically – a maester is respected and revered by all.

Pate’s had a bit of a hard time – he’s not particularly bright, so he’s struggling at the Citadel, and he thinks he has bad luck. He’s also not wealthy, and is common. He’s been accused of theft. He desperately wants Rosey. And he *has* stolen something – Archmaester Walgrave’s key, which opens all the doors in the citadel.

I’m intrigued by Rosey’s role. Pate thinks about Rosey bringing him and the alchemist together on more than one occasion. So clearly she knows Pate wants her. But why does she encourage him in particular? And how does she meet the alchemist?

Pate relates to the reader the stories about Spotted Pate, the Pig Boy, which shows that he is definitely only a peasant – no lord would name their child after a pig boy from legend. But the name pops up a few more times during the book on other lowborn characters, so clearly it’s a popular choice for that class.

Leo tells the other novices of a glass candle burning, and Armen explains the significance of these, to both the novices and the reader. It is clear that these candles are magical and are somehow linked to dragons – they are made of obsidian, or dragon glass, and one starts burning after Dany’s dragons are born. I felt that Armen’s explanation was a little preachy and patronising, kind of like a stuffy old professor explaining a simple concept to a student who isn’t very bright. But at least we got an explanation!

Leo is clearly hated by the others – he is highborn, a Tyrell, a cousin of Mace Tyrell, and he flagrantly abuses his high birth. He is basically a swaggering bully, but there’s more to him than that – he has an open mind and is on Marwyn’s side.

What happens to Pate at the end of the Prologue? This is how I interpreted it – he bit the coin, which was what he thought he should do to make sure it was genuine, but unfortunately for him it was coated in poison, and he dies. The alchemist is clearly Jaqen H’gar – his description matches almost word for word the description we get of Jaqen from Arya after he loses his red-and-white hair, when he gives her the coin. It was not a face Pate recognised, but clearly as readers it’s a face *we* should recognise. So, the alchemist is a faceless man, and he kills Pate so he can take his place and infiltrate the Citadel.

However, this raises a lot of questions. How did he know that Pate would bite the coin? Did he have a backup plan? If he’s going to take Pate’s place, why does he need Pate to steal the key? Can’t he steal it himself? How much does he know of Pate and his character, and how? Does he know enough to do a convincing impersonation of Pate? What *is* Rosey’s role in this anyway? Why does he want to infiltrate the Citadel? How long is he planning on staying? Is he there to assassinate someone or to gather intelligence? It’s a mystery!

Phew! That was a lot more involved than I thought! Takes me back to my Uni days…

On to the next chapter!

[Leah]

For reference, page numbers are from the US Hardcover Edition =)

[boy this became a lot longer than I expected it to -- guess I had a lot to say.]

A very good chapter overview has already been given so I figured I'd touch upon the little things we learn.

Since it's obvious we're in Oldtown and that it is a 'part' of House Hightower, I checked out the appendix. I love the appendix for all those little gems. House Hightower's pages are 715-717.

We get a nice little history of the House and how the Hightowers were instrumental in the founding of the Citadel and continue to protect it. We also get the information that: "Subtle and sophisticated, they have always been great patrons of learning and the Faith, and if is said that certain of them have also dabbled in alchemy, necromancy, and other sorcerous arts."

Taking a further look, I blinked because I had forgotten about Jorah Mormont's wife actually being alive but straight from the appendix we have "Lord Leyton's daughter, LYNESSE, m. Lord Jorah Mormont, presently chief concubine to Tregar Ormollen of Lys." Is it possible that we might eventually see Jorah deal with her? Oh wouldn't that be fun! heh.

Also from the appendix we learn that the holders of the ring, rod and mask of various portions of the Citadel are and what their craft and link metals are.

Seneschal for the waning year -- Electrum

Seneschal for the coming year -- Lead

Healer -- Silver

Mage -- Valyrian Steel

History -- Copper

Stargazing -- Bronze

Archmaester Ryam (mathmatics?) -- yellow gold

Ravencraft -- Black Iron

From Armen's links we learn there is also Pewter and Tin.

Anyway, going back to the Prologue.

Things I found interesting:

--The interaction between the novices and acolytes, they are just hanging out and discussing things that they are hearing and it's neat to hear what they think about what's going on in the world even if they believe some of it just to be sailor's tales.

--Time frame wise, this takes place before the knowledge of Tywin's death because at one point Pate thinks about Tywin being capable of putting Stannis' head on a spike.

--The description of dragonglass (obsidian) candles and what they are supposed to signify. "For even with knowledge some things are not possible." I really liked that line.

--Leo's line that starts with "Dragons and darker things." on page 10. Referring to the other maesters as grey sheep and the Mage as the mastiff. It just really (I think) not only got across Leo's attitude but it gave us a hint of the conversation Sam has with Marwyn in his last chapter.

--That Pate who has never seen Kings Landing compares them. Thoughts that Oldtown is made of all stone and all the streets are cobbled -- even the alleyways. Where as King's Landing is a daub and wattle city, a sprawl of mud streets, thatched roofs and wooden hovels.

--Getting the contents of Walgrave's box. It made me start wondering what they were for. Whose gauntlet was the key hiding inside? Whose hair is it tied in a ribbon? Is the painted miniature supposed to be one of Walgrave's relatives? Lots of questions but no real answers there huh?

--"Who are you?" "A stranger. No one. Truly." -- Rereading that gave me chills and I think that was because of the Arya chapters in Feast. I am very much looking forward to learning more about the Faceless Men (women)! I went back to ACoK and looked up where the description for what Jaqen turned into and I found it in the US Hardcover on page 519. Almost word for word the same description as given as a face Pate doesn't know. It gave me chills. =)

Things that became interesting later during reading:

-- The Sarella / Alleras connection. I'll be paying far more attention in the Dorne chapters this time around.

-- The pig boy story and how much Pate dislikes it.

Main question I was left wondering: Why does a Faceless Man want to infiltrate/get the key for the Citadel? Is it for easy access to the knowledge found there? Or is it to be at hand to help Marwyn? After all it stands to reason that during Marwyn's travels to learn about magic that he just might have spent some time learning about them, right? Of course that isn't something I really added to my question until the end of the book but still!

All in all the prologue just whet my appetite and made me happy to be back in Martin's wonderful rich world. =)

[ edited for the gold link ]

[A wilding]

Thought I would zoom in on the Pate/Rosey relationship.

Pate is seriously mixed up here. The toe stroking episode proves Rosey does not find him repulsive, but if she is willing to run off with him as he dreams, why does he need the gold coin? And if she is not willing to run off with him, what good does buying a night with her serve, is it really worth having to go on the run for?

OTOH as Ishtar has already pointed out, it was Rosey who introduced the Alchemist to Pate. If she knows that the Alchemist is offering Pate the gold, then that means that at the least she would rather her first time was with Pate than with a random stranger or someone like Lazy Leo. It might just even mean that she is hoping that a night with her would embolden him into suggesting that they run off together.

However, it does seem that everyone knows about Pate and Rosey, so it would not be difficult for the Alchemist to find out. Meeting Pate through Rosey could just be a smart way of ensuring he gets Pate's attention, and it would be easy enough to get a barmaid to carry out such an introduction. This seems more likely to me.

I found the whole relationship distinctly saddening. It felt almost a kindness that Pate was killed off, it at least got him out of the hole he was in.

[Lady of Leaves]

I HATE GRRM!!!!

No, of course not, but how can he make me feel so STOOOOOPID!?

I didn't catch the Sarella/Alleras clues until this board of course, where my betters pointed it out to me. And what do we read on page 2 of the Prologue: Alleras arrows are GOLDEN wood with RED fletching. Duh! And the clues just keep pouring after that.... I-m sure I still miss half of them in this re-read. Still, that's what makes it fun...

I might be going completely off the bend, overreading every sentence - but why does Alleras always miss the last shot? He/She knew it was the last arrow in the quiver, so it's not that he stops when he misses. And Roone says that's always the case. The arrow is over the river, so could it be aimed at something else? Could it contain information that needs to reach someone circumspectly? And would that mean Mollander is in on it? After all, he would have to throw in the right general direction, and the last apple he picks isn't a windfall, it's still on the branch. Why would a drunken youth go through so much trouble to give his friend something to aim at? I'm just stating this, so if it does turn out I spotted something I can get smug about it, and if not - noone will ever remember.

(I will continue to refer to Alleras as a he until ultimate proof is presented by Grand Archmaester George)

Rosie - yes. Is she in on it with the Alchemist, or was she just earning a few stags for herself? Too soon to tell, but my guess is we'll see more of her.

Good catch with the coin Ishtar!! I always thought Pate came to his untimely end in the Prologue, but I just assumed he got stabbed. But the racing heart and odd dialogue puts me in your camp - the coin was poisoned (literally as well as figuratively).

Another thing we know: Alleras earned the copper link which is history. Seems that was somthing he was prioritizing...

Leah - I think Gold is for mathemathics, calculus and the like. When Leo teases Roone about three being less than four but more than two, he states that he should not attempt the gold link yet.

Considering Mollander is prepared to drink to Dany he seems to be no friend of the reigning monarch. But we have no clue as yet to whether his father was on Renly's or Stannis' side? Do we? Does his grudge against the Tyrells go further than Leo?

I'll bet you anything Leo knows Alleras secret. He keeps taunting him and skipping around the subject. And naming him the Sphinx...

How did he learn though? Are there more highborns in Oldtown who knows?

Also, Alleras was inclined to believe Leo when he told the others about the burning glass candle in Marwyn's study. Armen dismisses it and Mollander laughs. But Alleras is considering. He clearly is prepared to believe in the unbelievable. My guess he is the leader of the Pack and the one that will have gotten the other's in with Marwyn when we meet up with them again.

The Red Priests obviously has a foot hold in Oldtown, which is interesting. Are they in communication with Mellisandre?

The Alchemist: "No one. Truly."

A faceless man if ever there was one...

[Wouter]

Mollander spoke of his father, a knight who died in the battle of the blackwater. And he clearly is a Targaryen loyalist. Do we have any idea who this knight might have been? If there is a hint in the appendix or the prologue, I missed it. Perhaps it was someone from the Dragonstone area, or Cracklaw point, places where one might find Targaryen supporters?

The Hightowers seem quite different from most other lords, wiser. They are lords over what is probably the most civilised place in westeros (perhaps comparable to the free cities in development, even), since they have a kind of university here and the streets are paved. And they keep out of most of the realm's wars - so they can apparently ignore the Tyrells and the crown to a certain degree. In fact, in the appendix we learn that one of the Florents, Alekyne, has currently found asylum - from KL and Highgarden - in Oldtown. No doubt this is because of Lord Hightowers' Florent wife. The whole family seems pretty mysterious, what with the lord never descending from the tower anymore and his oldest daughter being the "mad maid"?

I, too, liked the interaction between novices and Acolytes, and especially their views on the war, on lords and kings.

Leo and Alleras seem to be unfriendly with one another, allthough curiously both seem to be associated with Marwyn.

[rpthomps]

Excellent observation about Sellera, by the way and the Faceless man.

Couple of minor points and questions that I found myself in the Prologue.

Pg3- it seems Pate was previously accused of theft.

Pg 12. Talks about a donkey? And fantasizes about "leeching" from villagers. He seems a perfect candidate for this crime of stealing the key.

My only question so far is, Why does the faceless man want the Key? Do the Faceless men go on missions for clients? If so, who is there client? Who is the victim? Is it the mage?

[IshtarNZ]

Leah:

"I love the appendix for all those little gems. "

I always read the appendix *last*, because sometimes it has spoilers. But then I forget to look up people that I meant to look up! So its a bit of a catch-22 for me - do I read it first and get spoiled, or read it last and forget to look up stuff?

"Taking a further look, I blinked because I had forgotten about Jorah Mormont's wife actually being alive but straight from the appendix we have "Lord Leyton's daughter, LYNESSE, m. Lord Jorah Mormont, presently chief concubine to Tregar Ormollen of Lys." Is it possible that we might eventually see Jorah deal with her? Oh wouldn't that be fun! "

Right from when we first get Lynesse's story I was suspecting that she would pop up again at some point. It seems very important that Jorah knows exactly where she is and what she's doing. He could easily have lost track of her. I know that I've lost track of plenty of old flames, and we live in a much more communicative age. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if we see her again.

"Getting the contents of Walgrave's box."

I agree, why did we get so much detail here? We seem to get quite a bit of detail about Walgrave in general, for such a seemingly peripheral character. I know he is Pate's master, and that could explain it, but I have a feeling he's more important than he seems. Especially as it seems he was Maester Cressen's teacher (Cressen was Stannis' Maester who died trying to kill Melisandre, in case you've forgotten - I had and had to look him up!).

A wildling:

"I found the whole relationship distinctly saddening. It felt almost a kindness that Pate was killed off, it at least got him out of the hole he was in."

I agree. I'm still intrigued by what Rosey's role was in this and whether it was the alchemist who initially approached her - how their initial contact was made. There's so little detail about it except that they *were* somehow involved together, its frustrating!

Lady of Leaves:

"...how can he make me feel so STOOOOOPID!?"

Totally! I felt even more stupid because I didn't make the connection at all until someone pointed out the similarity, and then I suggested that perhaps they were twins! And Ran kindly pointed out that they were definitely the same person. I felt very stupid!

"I might be going completely off the bend, overreading every sentence - but why does Alleras always miss the last shot? ...Could it contain information that needs to reach someone circumspectly?"

Oooh, a fascinating theory! I never thought about that, I just took his (I also refer to Alleras as "he") word that he still needed improvement. But you could be on to something there!

"I'll bet you anything Leo knows Alleras secret. "

I agree. He refers to Alleras as a "lord's son". I'm quite certain he at least suspects that Alleras is more than what he seems.

rpthomps:

"My only question so far is, Why does the faceless man want the Key? Do the Faceless men go on missions for clients? If so, who is there client? Who is the victim? Is it the mage?"

I still think there's more to it than that. As he has killed Pate so he can take his place, why does he need to steal the key? Can't he just steal it himself? Is it a way to find out more about Pate's character? Is it a front - he needs something iron to turn it into gold, as he says he can do? And if so, why does it have to be the key in particular? I really hope we get more insight into this later.

[Waterdancer]

POINTS TO PONDER

It's joked that Pate will be a swineheard someday. He's already 18 years old and I don't think the Citadel will keep useless mouths around. If he doesn't earn a link eventually, Pate may flunk out.

Armen mentioned that the Spider had ears everywhere. That means Varys had connections at the Citadel and in Oldtown and it was common knowledge.

"Piss tasting" may refer to a practice I'd heard occured before modern laboratory tests. If someone were suspected of being diabetic, the taste of the urine would be sweeter than normal. Yuck.

Walgrave may be very, very old. Perhaps he mixes up Pate with Cressen because Cressen once tended to the ravens too. It seems like an unnecessary detail, although both managed to poison themselves.

There are an awful lot of septs in Oldtown. Is Oldtown the septons' seat of power also? I think it was mentioned in a previous book, but I just can't remember.

What are the Guildhalls? The only guild I immediately think of is the Alchemists. But they've fallen on hard times so they probably won't have mangificent buildings in Oldtown.

The key in Walgrave's strongbox must be rare or even unique. Maester Gormond learned the lock was broken, so other maesters must need access to that key sometime. Otherwise nobody but Pate would see this box. But this is a bit confusing because all the other archmaesters are supposed to have keys too. Maybe there's one super-secret place that Walgrave's key can be used for but none of the other keys would open it. The archmaesters may keep it in Walgrave's strongbox for safekeeping. If this key is so valuable, an archmaester carrying it on his person could get mugged for it.

Why was Lazy Leo confined to the Citadel and how was he sly enough to sneek out?

Marwyn is not approved of by some of the other Archmaesters. Of course the study of sorcery will always be frowned upon by logical academic types. Maester Luwin had told Bran as much.

Acoytes wear their links on a leather thong until they have enough to form a full chain around their necks, IMO. Perhaps when they have enough to make a chain, then they can be considered maesters. That way, one knows when someone has attained the rank even though courses of study vary depending on the talents and interests of the acoytes in question.

Edited to add:

It seems strange that dragons are being mentioned in Asshai. The other locations we can understand from previous books, but not that one. However Dany's eggs came from there and that area is where she's been told to go by a certain red masked woman. Marwyn gained special knowlege there and Jorah once told Dany that tall, pale ghost grass grows in the Shadowlands beyond there that will someday overwhelm the earth (sounding like Others to me). Maybe in the next book we'll see some of Asshai, but I highly doubt Dany is there just yet.

Edited again to add:

The faceless man was hired by Euron to get rid of Balon. Euon spent time in Asshai. Now the same faceless man is at the Citadel. Marwyn is at the Citadel, but had spent eight years in Asshai. Could the two have met? Are they plotting something together? Or is it the same faceless man because he's already on the scene in Westeros, so it's just convenient that way in terms of travel time / expenses?

A DESCRIPTION OF THE CHARACTERS

Mollander

aka Hopfrog

He's a novice with no links.

His father was a knight who died on the Blackwater. Family may have been Targaryen loyalists.

He's got strong arms, broad shoulders, and is clubfooted.

He drinks every night since his father died.

He listens to sailor stories and is very open-minded about the world's wonders.

He's bullheaded - worse when he's drunk.

He's not into reading

Alleras

aka the Sphynx

Attended the Citadel for 1 year and forged 3 links

An excellent archer who uses a goldenhear bow and golden arrows fletched with red feathers.

Attractive and slight build, but very strong to bend "his" bow, graceful

Can see very well - pointed out to Mollander an apple near his foot.

Witty, speaks with a slight Dornish accent.

Soft smiles, wicked looking, pointed chin, widow's peak, very short curly black hair.

Dornish father, Summer Islander mother who was a trader.

Drinks expensive sweet wine from the Summer Isles.

Has good finances - the bow and the wine are expensive.

Denies being a lord's son, but probably has the lord's son attitude.

Brown skin like a nut.

Stuck up for Pate when Lazy Leo was bashing him (hates Lazy Leo).

Knows Pate is in love with Rosey.

Roone

A young novice with no links

Chunky build, 14 years old(?) - two years until manhood

Ignorant of the glass candles.

Pate

A novice with no links forged, gets frightened at exam time.

Arrived at the Citadel 5 years ago from the westerlands.

18 years old.

Knows how to sew and made his own hidden pocket.

Rosey

Hazel eyes, budding breasts, dimpled, curly haired.

Sometimes walks barefoot.

At 15, she is newly flowered.

Her mother is Emma, an attractive and chunky 40 year old whore.

Her maidenhead is worth a golden stag.

Lazy Leo

Always has cutting remarks about the others.

Hazel eyes with ash blond hair covering one eye.

Dresses very gaudily (like a bravo), with a Tyrell rose.

Well supplied with money, for things like clothes, gambling, wine, and fine foods.

Hated by the others.

Hangs out with Marwyn.

Trained to fight like a bravo with a sword and dagger - is there a Braavosi connection?

Ser Moryn Tyrell is his father, the commander of the city watch of Oldtown.

Armen

An acoyte. Pewter, tin, lead, copper links have been forged.

Patronizing to novices.

Close-minded, doesn't care about sailors' stories.

Earned more than three links, each taking 1 year.

Doesn't like Marwyn.

Long, thin pointed nose.

[IshtarNZ]

Waterdancer:

"Why was Lazy Leo confined to the Citadel and how was he sly enough to sneek out?"

Good question, and one I completely overlooked in my re-read. I don't think we get any hint of this at all.

"It seems strange that dragons are being mentioned in Asshai."

Like I said, Bran mentioned dragons in Asshai too. So I think there have been dragons there for a while now.

"Patronizing to novices."

While I don't remember Pate specifically thinking of Armen as patronising, I agree. A number of things Armen talks of, particularly the glass candles, come over as patronising.

[Waterdancer]

While I don't remember Pate specifically thinking of Armen as patronising, I agree. A number of things Armen talks of, particularly the glass candles, come over as patronising.

"...like most acolytes he seemed to believe that novices had turnips growing from their shoulders in place of heads."

[IshtarNZ]

Ah, I overlooked that bit, thanks WD

[Elgernon]

First off . . . I can't believe I missed the Alleras/Sarella connection, even in my second read through. I thought something must be up but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Some thoughts I've had (mostly cause I don't think GRRM does anything coincidental)

-What is the meaning behind the mention of Cressen (other than just the failing mind of an old man and thanks Ishtar for reminding me where Cressen came from it was driving my crazy not being able to remember who he was)

-Is there some sort of metaphorical, figurative, or even literal connection between Walgrave/Pate and Aemon/Samwell? As both situations have a very old respected Maester (involved with Ravens) and a bumbling incompetent aide. Although Aemon/Samwell are obviously the more skilled and intelligent pairing.

Also I have to say that even in rereading for some reason Lazy Leo seemed more like a Lannister than a Tyrell, but that is probably just the "i'm better than you" attitude.

[Jon Targaryen]

First my comments then I'll respond to others later.

Alleras/Sarella is very good with the bow.

I wonder who Mollander’s father was.

Every sailor tells a different story but it is all part of Dany’s story.

They know some of Sarella’s history, that his father is Dornish. Could there be a Dornish accent?

Marwyn spent eight years in the East. This must be the time he instructed MMD.

Alleras says, “I’m no lord’s son.â€

The two big questions for me in this chapter are:

1. What does Alleras mean by the dragon has three heads? I’m trying to recall the times we have heard this before. The one I recall the easiest is what the Undying said in the House of the Undying. “Three heads has the dragon.†Does Alleras know of Doran’s plan to wed Quentyn to Dany? Even if she does, that does not take into account the other husband. Or does Alleras simply mean “the dragon has three heads†because the dragon owner is Dany, whose house’s sigil is a dragon with three heads?

2. What does Jaqen want with the Citadel key and Pate’s identity? I really have no clue as to this one.

[Ser Tyler]

In reguards to the appendix, here's something I came up with.

The handful of archmaesters named in the Prologue are referred to in the appendix as being of a certain specialty and having a ring, rod, and mask in the material that represents their specialty. The appendix lists more archmaesters than are mentioned though, a total of 21. While I could be offbase here, I suppose there could be many, many more that just aren't mentioned in the appendix or otherwise, it leads me to believe that 21 different disciplines are taught at the Citadel, and thus there are 21 different links than can be forged in a unique material.

[Ashara Stark]

I only have three comments to add to the ones all of you have already pointed out.

The fact that Leyton Hightower has not abandoned the High Tower for ten years made me think that he is actually dead.

I think that Faceless Man are only hired for murdering, not for stealing, so I assume that Jaqen needs the key to the Citadel either to kill somebody there or to have access to something he needs in order to kill somebody somewhere else. Pate thinks of old Valyrian scrolls hidden in the Citadel, so maybe Jaqen was hired to kill Dany's dragons and he needs information contained in those old scrolls (a spell?) to know how to deal with them.

Lazy Leo, with his ash-blonde hair, looks more like a Dayne than a Tyrrell

[koudoulis]

you people pretty mush covered the prologue and nothinn more i could add

just a thought ( more of a perception)

About the dragons in Asshai

I dont think we should take it seriously cause its propable that Asshai is too far away and people just want dragons to exist , they believe there should be a few over there - its kind of (false or exaggerated) sailor story

[Happy Ent]

What more can we say about the timeframe? We know the chapter is after the Blackwater, because Mollander's father died there. And we know that Tywin's death isn't known. That gives something like a four-month interval.

Jaquen is not much help. He left Harrenhal long before the Blackwater. If we assume that he is the one who killed Balon, that gives us slighly more, but not much: give him a few weeks to head from Pyke to Oldtown, then he arrives there a maybe a week or two after the Red Wedding. That narrows the timeframe to the two months surrounding Joff and Maerge's wedding. In that case, the Prologue happens long after Aeron Damphair's chapter.

Any other hints?

[Urri]

Some assortet thoughts and comments to previous posts:

Alleras/ Sarella:

I'm quite proud that I did at least strongly suspect Alleras to be the missing Sandsnake. But only because I actively looked for her in that Chapter ( the spoiler of "Captain of the Guard" has mentioned Sarella's love for Oldtown and allready caused some speculation on her "playing" at becoming a maester). And on the reread I saw how many hints I actually missed: the whole name backwards thing, the almost Eowyn-like "I am no lord's SON", etc.

The faceless man:

IshtarNZ allready mantioned it. but I think it is one of the most overlooked things in the prologue: the crucial point in the whole key stealing affair is not so much what the FM wants with the key, but why he need Pate to steal it for him. Considering that he has no problem to take on Pate's identity and seems to have at least a very good idea were to find the key it would have been much easier for him to first take over Pate's appearance and than take his time with getting the key himself. So far my best bet is that the theft itself was somehow important, e.g. that the FM can only take over the faces of "guilty" people.

The faith/ the guild:

Someone later in the book (can' t recall where; probably some Cersei chapter?) we get a good explanation for the strong presence of the faith and maybe the alchemists in the city. Oldtown seems to have acted as a sort of capital for Westeros prior to the conquest by housing the headquater of both the Measters and the faith. Only after the conquest and maybe even as late as the building of Baelor's Sept the high septon moved to King's Landing.

I don't recall that the alchemists are mentioned at that point, but it is most likely that they too head their headquater in Oldtown once, that should explain that there's still a large guildhall of them to be found.

[Leah]

Thank you IshtarNZ for reminding us where Cressen came from! I KNEW the name and I just reread the whole series before I read Feast the first time. Maybe I should have taken notes. I kind of agree with Elgernon, there has to be a reason that is mentioned other than to let us know he taught Cressen. Then again we could be wrong and it could just be one of those things that loosely connects the characters and means nothing. I just think Martin likes to know we're all using a fine toothed comb to find the needles in the haystack that each book is.

I meant to question the Rosey/alchemist connection in my original post but I forgot it while getting into writing up all the other thoughts I had in my notebook! heh It was mentioned too many times for it not to mean something. But it could be one of those pieces of hay disguised as a needle though.

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I really like seeing everyone's thoughts on these things because it's always good to see what others pick up that I miss! To me it's half the fun of a reread! Wish I had finished the reread through the series with the board the first time around. Wish I still had my notes. :/