Polygamy the solution?

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Im reminded of something Ned Stark said back in the first ASOIAF book " If the gods so disliked bastards, why did they give men such insatiable lust?"

I know a lot of "bastards" have a hard time of it in the series, since they were born out of wedlock. Wouldn't the solution to this be allowing polygamy?

Look at Robert Baratheon. He fooled around with a lot of women and left many of them heartbroken as well as pregnant. He left behind a child who he would not have a relationship with.

What if instead of dumping them, he was able to marry them? than not only would his misstresses not be heartbroken and caste aside, they would be queens! :cool4:

Cerise might become nicer, having sister queens to socialize with. IF she were not the only queen she might be acting less high and mighty than she is currently.

My solution isn't all that different from Dorne really. While polygamy isn't present there, apparently messing around and having out of wedlock kids is ok there.

Polygamy has been around in many cultures in our own world. The western one is fairly unique in it not being a presence. Could polygamy have a positive effect in Westeros, especially given people like Robert?

[Night's Princess]

You really think Cersei would want to share her crown with a bunch of women her husband slept around with and then married? Sure, polygamy would solve some issues, but it would also create many more, including:

Who is the heir, and what do they inherit? What do the various wives have rights to, and what do they inherit once the husband dies?

What if the original wife doesn't take kindly to her husband marrying again and possibly has one or both of them killed?

[TheSovereignGrave]

It would cause far more trouble than its worth. You don't just take an established tradition like monogamy and then disregard it (unless you're Aegon Targaryen and have dragons to be able to do what you want). I highly doubt anyone would actually accept the other wives (except maybe Dornishmen) and then you have the issue of the King marrying peasants. Could you imagine the backlash if there was a Queen who was literally a whore?

[Night's Princess]

Where did the 'Dornish are polygamists' thing come from? I thought they were just a bit more lax about sex in general.

[Lemonking]

You should read up on societies were polygamy, or concubinage, was common (eg. mongols, chinese or muslims). The wives(and their families) of the rulers were often very ruthless in ensuring their own son became the heir, which resulted in 'accidents', assasinations, defamations and sometimes outright civil wars.

Imagine the drama of the great bastards but in each generation.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

You should read up on societies were polygamy, or concubinage, was common (eg. mongols, chinese or muslims). The wives(and their families) of the rulers were often very ruthless in ensuring their own son became the heir, which resulted in 'accidents', assasinations, defamations and sometimes outright civil wars.

Imagine the drama of the great bastards but in each generation.

Hmm... and here i thought it was just one big happy..

At least better than Robert leaving a bunch of his kids and lady friends neglected

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Look, I just think it was bad the way Robert's lady friends were caste aside when he finished with them, and how Edric Storm, Gendry, didn't get to have much of a relationship with their father.

Wouldn't the honorable thing for Robert to do in such a situation, would be to make the mothers his wives and raise the sons as princes?

I think there would be less heartbreak all around. I mean why would Cersei mind, since she doesn't like her hubby much anyhow?

People refer to Polygamy as if it was this misogynistic thing. But at times it helped women escape poverty, such as Robert's mistresses

[Beautiful Balon]

If Robert wanted to support his kids he was perfectly capable of doing it. Edric Storm was only supported because he had to, Mya Stone was given a job by his foster father and Gendry probably set up with the blacksmithing by Varys. If Robert wanted to support his bastards he had the full resources of the crown to do it, but he didn't and so the dickless wonder was a better father than him. I don't see how marrying the women would have helped.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

You should read up on societies were polygamy, or concubinage, was common (eg. mongols, chinese or muslims). The wives(and their families) of the rulers were often very ruthless in ensuring their own son became the heir, which resulted in 'accidents', assasinations, defamations and sometimes outright civil wars.

Imagine the drama of the great bastards but in each generation.

THIS!

If Robert wanted to support his kids he was perfectly capable of doing it. Edric Storm was only supported because he had to, Mya Stone was given a job by his foster father and Gendry probably set up with the blacksmithing by Varys. If Robert wanted to support his bastards he had the full resources of the crown to do it, but he didn't and so the dickless wonder was a better father than him.

This too, except for the dickless wonder part. I don't even know who is being referenced. Varys?

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Look, I just think it was bad the way Robert's lady friends were caste aside when he finished with them, and how Edric Storm, Gendry, didn't get to have much of a relationship with their father.

Wouldn't the honorable thing for Robert to do in such a situation, would be to make the mothers his wives and raise the sons as princes?

I think there would be less heartbreak all around. I mean why would Cersei mind, since she doesn't like her hubby much anyhow?

People refer to Polygamy as if it was this misogynistic thing. But at times it helped women escape poverty, such as Robert's mistresses

It is misogynistic. How many people are contemplating harems of men? Women using sex or being sold to a rich man isn't feminist. A world where women can get by without resorting to their privates is. Its a system that puts men in power over these women. Don't like what husband does, don't worry, he has 5 other wives, you don't matter.

There is no way the barmaid that was Gendry's mother or the prostitute who was Barra's mother are getting married. No way at all. Robert could have legitimised the kids anyway but he didn't for two reasons, he feared for their safety (Mya in particular), he didn't care enough to push.

[Beautiful Balon]

It is misogynistic. How many people are contemplating harems of men?

Jorah said Dany could take multiple husbands, so at least one dude is down for it.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

It is misogynistic. How many people are contemplating harems of men? Women using sex or being sold to a rich man isn't feminist. A world where women can get by without resorting to their privates is. Its a system that puts men in power over these women.

Polygamy is not inherently misogynistic. All these things you have brought up take place in monogamy as well as polygamy. So it's not the number of spouses that a man can have that makes it misogynistic, but the power structure and laws that make women the subjects of men.

[WSmith84]

Polygamy in a monarchy is just bound to cause trouble. Monarchs (and Lords) often have enough trouble preventing succession squabbles amongst their children without the complication of children from different mothers. Even bastards can be problematic, so trueborn children of various mothers sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[Lord of Moat Cailin]

Even if this was a thing, the only one Robert would marry would be Delena Florent, the rest are too low born

Hmm... and here i thought it was just one big happy..

At least better than Robert leaving a bunch of his kids and lady friends neglected

No, it's not, 15 women and 15 kids being neglected is not worse than 14 women and 14 kids dying, or wven thousands dying in a war over succession

Also, in this society i dont think people caref about being mysoginistic

[Lord of Moat Cailin]

I mean why would Cersei mind, since she doesn't like her hubby much anyhow?

She would mind because it would threaten her power and her children's power

[Beautiful Balon]

This too, except for the dickless wonder part. I don't even know who is being referenced. Varys?

Yeah, he probably set gendry up for his aprenticeship and sent presents to Edric.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

Yeah, he probably set gendry up for his aprenticeship and sent presents to Edric.

I was under the impression that it was more likely Jon Arryn that did this. Why would Varys take care of the bastard offspring of a King he is undermining by secretly training a Targ heir to eventually depose him?

[Beautiful Balon]

I was under the impression that it was more likely Jon Arryn that did this. Why would Varys take care of the bastard offspring of a King he is undermining by secretly training a Targ heir to eventually depose him?

I don't think it was Jon Arryn, he would have been recognized and the description sorta fits Varys. As to why he would do it, I have no idea. Varys is a weird dude.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

She would mind because it would threaten her power and her children's power

What if her kids were named the heirs, and she got to be the "head wife"?

I mean Robert is kind of an overgrown frat boy. If he had a bunch more women and children in his wife perhaps it would foster on him the responsibilities he had, and make him not so neglectful.

I do wish polygamy were an option, given the society the Westerosi live in, and the unbridled lust of many of the lords. That way, "hitting and quitting" won't be as prevalent. Instead of a regrettable moment of lust, it can be a moment of happiness and responsibility.

I mean look at China and the Ottoman empire. There were men with many wives and those societies were fine, as well as quite cultured and powerful

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I mean look at China and the Ottoman empire. There were men with many wives and those societies were fine, as well as quite cultured and powerful

Sorry, but you are wrong there.

For example: Cordoba, emirate and khalifate. 300 years. Only two times the throne changed hands without (half-)brothers, (half-)uncles and whatever murdering each other or outright civil war. Which of course continued through most of their reigns and what the wifes/mothers did behind the walls of the harem was no better, just better hidden.

Similar for the Ottoman Empire. Hell, Mehmed II made it a law that the new Sultan could/had to kill each and every male offspring of his father. Well, many a father actually had his sons killed himself to spare the remaining one the political trouble to assert himself.

Don't know enough about China.