Why is Cersei's descent into madness omitted?

[A Highborn Maid]

In the books, Cersei was basically Macbeth, a self-important monarch driven mad by self-aggrandizing paranoia and a nebulous prophecy. In the TV show, she's, in her own words, "a smirking whore."

Also, the writers of the show seem to be projecting some of book Cersei's flaws on to TV Margaery. Marge shouting "I AM the Queen" repeatedly was clearly an echo of book Cersei.

Carol actually seems kind of nice on the show. They need to write an episode where she feed multiple people to Qyburn. Actually, Carol is hardly getting any screen time this season, which is odd, seeing as Cersei was basically the protagonist of Feast.

[dsug]

When people talk about this topic, they tend to embellish Cersei's madness. Cersei is not a renowned psychopath, running around giggling and stabbing people with a shiv. At this point in the books, Cersei still attempts to carry herself with grace and respect, save for the occasional outburst.

Most of her madness is internal. We see it in her thoughts and her schemes, not really her actions. She thinks some truly vile things. But since the show doesn't have internal monologues (thank god) they can't really comminucate that so much.

As for the aforementioned outburst, Cersei has had plenty throughout the show (screaming at the small council, smashing shit and shoving Tyrion, pretty much all of season 4, "I will burn their cities to the ground...", "I'll skin him and his bastard...", etc). These freak outs mirror her fragile mental state, lashing out when things don't go her way then trying to pick up the pieces.

Also, Cersei's waaay less of a slut on the show, so your smirking whore comment confuses me. I believe the costume designer for the show once said "the last thing Cersei wants to do is attract a man" or something to that effect. Unless all of her affairs happen off screen and unmentioned, she has really been boning anyone for like three years.

[juniperstone]

I also wish we could have seen cersei's measured descent into paranoia and alcoholism. In the show she was a wine-o from the start :cheers:

[Zordrath]

I think it's too early to say it's been omitted entirely, but I guess it is more difficult to show without interal monologues. However, I still think that the viewer can judge her recent actions (arming the faith, alienating the Tyrells) as driven by paranoia instead of reason. So I don't think her "madness" is lost entirely.

[RedRonnet]

I think that it would be completely unnecessary at this point in the show. It would be quite illogical.

For us Book readers, we have the luxury of getting some insight into the Faith Militant before we actually get to see the High Sparrow, or before the Faith Militant is reformed. We see snippets of people thinking back to the days when the FM were outlawed, and show Cersei has no counsel on the matter. She seems to be coordinating this with the HS secretly, and not bringing up the subject in council, like in the books.

Nobody on the show even mentions Joffrey's name. Not one word. Personally I think that this is a silent metaphor on how great kings are remembered, but that's a whole other thread. So anyway, nobody even mentions Joffrey so it would confuse people if she just started cracking up. Sure, Tywin died, but both she and Jamie took it remarkably well, plus they had sex by dead Joffrey's body, so I don't take her for the sensitive, compassionate type.

As for everything else crumbling to bits around her, we have had no burning of the tower of The Hand, and as far as she's concerned, all is going well with her new pal, HS, even though any fool can see what he's up to, and he can't help but make subtle references to his plans any chance he gets, so I think it's safe to say that Cersei is definitely not thinking straight. Her mind is on other things: Myrcella in Dorne surrounded by Snakes and those who are angry about her father killing Elia and her kids. ; Her losing grip on power. Kevin Lannister just said "fuck off, Im going to Casterly Rock and shit"; Tommen getting seduced by Marg and he asked her to go back to Casterly Rock, Tyrion killed her father, but yet he's out sailing and catching the breeze, it goes on and on. She's distracted, depressed, and she can't stand the grip on power that the Tyrell's have on the throne. But descending into madness? Just wouldn't make sense at this point.

Okay, maybe there is room for it when HS decides to pull the ol' one-two and throws her in prison. Confined and locked away, she starts to go crazy in the isolation.

BUT

How could you realistically get two stellar performances back-to-back like that? That is major production focus right there, and for two scenes requiring such concentration, with a zillion other characters to take care of, I think it's pushing it. I would rather see a sober WOS than a descent into madness/surpriseroo imprisonment/WOS ultra light combo pack.

[Drogonthedread]

because you know there can be only one mad queen and to be a mad queen your father has to be mad king and your last name has to be targaryen ....pathetic

[Primalsplit]

because you know there can be only one mad queen and to be a mad queen your father has to be mad king and your last name has to be targaryen ....pathetic

D&D knows no mad queen, but the mad queen whose name is TARGARYEN!

[jet199]

I don't get what you think constitutes madness in Cersei's story. All her delusions come from ignorance rather than illness, she is right to be paranoid but she aims it in the wrong direction, etc. More stupidity than madness.

[HousePotterz]

In the books, Cersei was basically Macbeth, a self-important monarch driven mad by self-aggrandizing paranoia and a nebulous prophecy. In the TV show, she's, in her own words, "a smirking whore."

Also, the writers of the show seem to be projecting some of book Cersei's flaws on to TV Margaery. Marge shouting "I AM the Queen" repeatedly was clearly an echo of book Cersei.

Carol actually seems kind of nice on the show. They need to write an episode where she feed multiple people to Qyburn. Actually, Carol is hardly getting any screen time this season, which is odd, seeing as Cersei was basically the protagonist of Feast.

As with so many differences between book and show, it really comes down to the mediums themselves and what they allow the author/showrunners. D&D can't depict to TV viewers what's going on in her head through the use of the internal monologue she has in AFFC or ADWD. Book readers clearly see her paranoia grow through the course of her POV chapters, which lead her into more and more foolish actions. Of all the POV characters that GRRM has introduced to readers, Cersei is easily the one that lives the most in her own thoughts.

D&D, wisely, are instead clearly giving Cersei more agency in their depiction of her AFFC material. She is more the master of her fate on the show than she is in the books, and that will make it all the more satisfying when she gets her inevitable comeuppance. The major flaw in their interpretation, so far, is Lancel's role in it all. If he's become such a die-hard zealot, why is he keeping the secret of his repeated sexual interactions with her and his role in Robert's death by boar? They haven't explained that well enough yet.

Also, the "smirking whore" comment is clearly in reference to Margaery, it's not what she calls herself. "My son is married to that smirking whore from Highgarden."

[Lady Darry]

I don't get what you think constitutes madness in Cersei's story. All her delusions come from ignorance rather than illness, she is right to be paranoid but she aims it in the wrong direction, etc. More stupidity than madness.

Cersei has some sort of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But yeah, mental illnesses in asoiaf are written in a bad way (we could also say in a offensive way).

[A Highborn Maid]

When people talk about this topic, they tend to embellish Cersei's madness. Cersei is not a renowned psychopath, running around giggling and stabbing people with a shiv. At this point in the books, Cersei still attempts to carry herself with grace and respect, save for the occasional outburst.

Most of her madness is internal. We see it in her thoughts and her schemes, not really her actions. She thinks some truly vile things. But since the show doesn't have internal monologues (thank god) they can't really comminucate that so much.

As for the aforementioned outburst, Cersei has had plenty throughout the show (screaming at the small council, smashing shit and shoving Tyrion, pretty much all of season 4, "I will burn their cities to the ground...", "I'll skin him and his bastard...", etc). These freak outs mirror her fragile mental state, lashing out when things don't go her way then trying to pick up the pieces.

Also, Cersei's waaay less of a slut on the show, so your smirking whore comment confuses me. I believe the costume designer for the show once said "the last thing Cersei wants to do is attract a man" or something to that effect. Unless all of her affairs happen off screen and unmentioned, she has really been boning anyone for like three years.

The 'smirking whore' comment was actually something Cersei said about Marge, and it had a nice ring to it so i re-used it, though obviously I only meant it in re the 'constant smirking'. Smirk, smirk, smirk. That's all Cersei has been doing this season.

I think we can all agree her role has been diminished greatly this season in comparison to Feast.

Danaerys, on the other hand, is being depicted as a psychopathic monster, the inheritor of Joffrey's cruel sadism.

[jet199]

Cersei has some sort of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But yeah, mental illnesses in asoiaf are written in a bad way (we could also say in a offensive way).

I think GRRM said that she has an almost psychopath attitude which I think means that he doesn't consider her to be a full blown psycho but she adopts that attitude to get what she wants. Even if she is a psychopath psychos aren't mad they are just arseholes.

[Lord Godric]

There's no good way for them to do Cersei's descent into madness without letting us see into her head. Also, man book fans have criticized the valonquar prophecy and that being behind Cersei's motivations so I can see why the writers of the show decided it probably wouldn't work for TV either. It's too much of an about-face.

[Lady Darry]

I think GRRM said that she has an almost psychopath attitude which I think means that he doesn't consider her to be a full blown psycho but she adopts that attitude to get what she wants. Even if she is a psychopath psychos aren't mad they are just arseholes.

GRRM said she is narcissistic. Antisocial personality disorder (i guess this is what some people would associate with 'psychopath psychos') is a legit disorder. Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial personality disorder belong to the same cluster of personality disorders, so there are actually some similarities between the two.

[jet199]

Personality disorders are not madness. That is my point.

A personality disorder would not give you leave to plead insanity in a court of law because you would not be considered either insane or to have diminished responsibility.

[Lady Darry]

To the topic, i think they are whitewashing Cersei, because they are planning to turn Dany into a 'mad queen'. They can't have two full fledged villains as queens.

[Drogonthedread]

My bad, I misunderstand you.

But yeah, mental illnesses in ASOIAF are not realistic, so probably the whole discussion about it is pointless.

To the topic, i think they are whitewashing Cersei, because they are planning to turn Dany into a 'mad queen'. They can't have two full fledged villains as queens.

Yeah because you see we need to whitewash a character who provide humans for experiment as lab rats simply because she doesnt like them

but we have to turn a character mad because his father was one and ordered questioning of people that were suspects of killing her people (which every ruler in westeros will dop by the way )

if you are going to whitewash characters then do that to everyone ,,..why only stop with Saint tyrion and his sweet sister cersei

[dsug]

Well Cersei is kind of a cartoon character in the books, so I think the shows trying to make her a little bit more of an actual person.

[TFP]

It's hard to do subtly.

Margaery's reference to drinking wine in the morning was supposed to be a nod in this direction, I suppose.

As, probably, was cersei's claim that 'house lannister has no rivals' or whatever at the same time as she admitted to being powerless to intervene in the north.

But I agree that it's been a bit thin.

[A Highborn Maid]

Well Cersei is kind of a cartoon character in the books, so I think the shows trying to make her a little bit more of an actual person.

I don't see her as a cartoon character even in the books. Just brimming with anger and resentment, the bulk of which is expressed internally.

I think it's very telling that book Cersei is demonized more for her thoughts than for her deeds.