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New theory, lovely crackpot!


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So as I was browsing the interwebs I came across an amazing essay that said that there is some truth to the rumors that Ned had a tryst with someone that was not Catelyn, one that did cause a pregnancy.

The amazing thing of it is that the boy known as fAegon is here supposed to not be a Targaryen, but a ...Stark!

Jon Snow was raised as the bastard son of Eddard Stark. Young Griff was raised as Aegon, the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen. Readers have long questioned both their lineages, and the belief that Jon is Rhaegar's trueborn son has achieved almost universal acceptance. ("L+R=J") I believe this to be only half the story - Jon and Aegon have their paternity precisely reversed. Aegon is not a Targaryen, but is Eddard Stark's bastard, fathered after a tryst with Ashara Dayne at the infamous tournament in the Year of the False Spring. This symmetry is not merely poetic, but follows readily from a group of other facts and inferences supported by textual evidence.

Kudos for MGonen over at Tower of the Hand for writing this. Read the entire story here.

I, for one am on board of this theory. It would finally connect the dots of where exactly Ashara and Wylla come in to the story. It would tie up the "testimony" (for want of a better word) of Edric Dayne about being milk brothers with Jon, as well. Thoughts?

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Ashara Dayne's hair: Black

Ned's hair: Brown

I don't think this theory is possible because of this.

That means nothing. Although it has a bearing on other families, such as the Baratheon look beating out almost everything and Tully blood winning out against Stark blood, it is unknown what the result would be of a Dayne-Stark coupling. Furthermore, check our own wiki:

Unlike the rest of the more Rhoynish-looking Dornishmen, they have pale skin with hair ranging from dark brown to pale blond and they often have violet eyes.

Ashara has the valyrian genes so it can be possible. However, I don't think it's true.

Why not? An explanation would be nice.

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Also, why are Illyrio and Varys trying to put Eddard Stark's kid on the throne?

Because, unlike Daenerys and Jon, this boy actually has been raised to be a king, regardless of his heritage.

And of course, since Varys and Illyrio saw their first attempt to make an impact on Westeros go completely awry.

That said, I don't think that they have completely written off Daenerys just yet.

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Why would Ashara fake the death of her baby at that time? If the baby was conceived at Harrenhal then it would have been born at least six months before the end of Roberts Rebellion. So why fake her babys death and also tell everyone it was a girl if it was a boy at that particular point in time when Elia and her kids were still on Dragonstone and Rhaegar was alive and they were somewhat safe? Faking the death of your own baby and therefore giving it up is a pretty major move to make without some sort of major motivation. So, my question is, why?

Also, Wylla being brought to the ToJ by Ser Arthur Dayne to be Lyanna's wetnurse/maid/helper etc and then continuing on in that capacity later on at Starfell explains Jon and Edric being milk brothers, because they were.

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Well, gee whiz, we already know that Ned was with another woman, that is documented (the fisherman's daughter and her bag of silver)...Now whether you believe Borell's tale or not is the $64 question.


Personally, I do, and whether Jon Snow Sisterton shows up in Sansa's story or in Davos/Rickon will make for some interesting POV's.


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Also, why are Illyrio and Varys trying to put Eddard Stark's kid on the throne?

We still don't know much about Varys or his motives. Varys seems to have fed Aerys's paranoia, and his arrival in Kings Landing probably hastened or may have even precipitated Aerys's demise. His loyalty to Targaryens is not a forgone conclusion.

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Why would Ashara fake the death of her baby at that time? If the baby was conceived at Harrenhal then it would have been born at least six months before the end of Roberts Rebellion. So why fake her babys death and also tell everyone it was a girl if it was a boy at that particular point in time when Elia and her kids were still on Dragonstone and Rhaegar was alive and they were somewhat safe? Faking the death of your own baby and therefore giving it up is a pretty major move to make without some sort of major motivation. So, my question is, why?

Also, Wylla being brought to the ToJ by Ser Arthur Dayne to be Lyanna's wetnurse/maid/helper etc and then continuing on in that capacity later on at Starfell explains Jon and Edric being milk brothers, because they were.

It might have been shame. It's a powerful motivator. I'm going to assume that there were already tensions during the tourney at Harrenhal, and as such a loyal house like Dayne would be at odds with a grumbling house like Stark.

Who is Septa Lemore in the "standard" R+L=J theory?

Nobody, I think. The only thing about her I could find in theories is:

Some reader of the series believe Lemore is the mother of Tyene Sand. Lemore is a Septa who has given birth before, as evidenced by the stretchmarks on her belly seen by Tyrion Lannister. She is also roughly in her mid 40's, and Tyene is in her early 20's, which would lend further support to the theory.

Evidence against

Tyene Sand has golden hair. Oberyn Martell and Lemore both have dark hair, making it unlikely that their daughter would have light hair. It is possible that Lemore dyes her hair to further conceal her identity, but that seems unnecessarily cautious. Further, if Lemore were Tyene's mother, it would be strange for her not to have communicated with her daughter or anyone else back in Dorne to give support to Aegon's legitimacy.

Ashara Dayne

Another possibility is that Lemore is actually Ashara Dayne, who did not in fact die after Robert’s Rebellion, but went to aid Aegon in Essos after giving birth to Jon Snow. However when observing Lemore on the Shy Maid Tyrion Lannister never makes note of her eye colour which, if she were Ashara, would be very striking, as Ashara's eyes were described as being a "haunting violet" colour.

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I personally love the theory. It gives Lemore a narrative purpose and adds intrigue to Rob's dying edict. Rob legitimizing Ned's bastard is completely useless if Ned didn't actually HAVE a bastard to legitimize.

Ned does though...on Sisterton

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Ned does though...on Sisterton

But that makes no narrative sense. Why would he go through all that trouble to keep people thinking Jon is his bastard when his real bastard is all the way over in Sisterton? And why doesn't he want to talk about it? Why does he get so angry? Why does he lie to Robert Baratheon about it, his BFF? That raises too many questions.

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Seeing as how Gibzit ruled this theory out in the first post, there is really nothing more to add. A black haired person and a brown haired person cannot have a silver haired baby, that is very simple and straight forward and you do not need an intimate knowledge of genetics to know that.


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But that makes no narrative sense. Why would he go through all that trouble to keep people thinking Jon is his bastard when his real bastard is all the way over in Sisterton? And why doesn't he want to talk about it? Why does he get so angry? Why does he lie to Robert Baratheon about it, his BFF? That raises too many questions.

His promise to Lyanna. re Jon Snow ToJ. John Snow ToJ is there in front of Catelyn reminding her daily of Ned's supposed daliance. Ned gets angry at others because he did dishonour himself. Telling Baratheon anything would lead too many other questions.

As far as Jon Snow Sisterton goes, he was a byeblow best left forgotten with a bag of silver, either that or else there is a whole back story to come....

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Seeing as how Gibzit ruled this theory out in the first post, there is really nothing more to add. A black haired person and a brown haired person cannot have a silver haired baby, that is very simple and straight forward and you do not need an intimate knowledge of genetics to know that.

I don't know. I've seen blonde haired kids born of two dark haired parents.

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Seeing as how Gibzit ruled this theory out in the first post, there is really nothing more to add. A black haired person and a brown haired person cannot have a silver haired baby, that is very simple and straight forward and you do not need an intimate knowledge of genetics to know that.

Two heterozygous dominant parents can have a child with a recessive trait. There's a 25% chance in Mendelian genetics, and there's no guarantee that GRRM's genetics follow Mendelian rules in the first place.

http://feistyhome.phpwebhosting.com/punnett4.gif

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I arrived at the same conclusion from a different route. Except that I accept the possibility that Jon is a third R+E child because the timings don't work otherwise.



Unlike other theories, this one explains more as you dig deeper rather than just coming up with obvious objections.



If Jon and fAegon are swapped at birth with some sort of spell to switch their appearances, Lyanna gives her life to make the spell permanent.



This allows for a very powerful reveal after the stabby-stabby. The smoke pouring from Jon's wounds, signs of some sort of magic surely? He isn't killed in the attack, his appearance changes completely making him look Targarean.



And of course he would not know why. Possibly R+L=J then becomes Jon's theory of his birth until there is a further reveal in the Winterfell crypt.



Jon has to be Aegon, not Lyanna's child because he is born in salt and smoke. The salt is dragonstone, the smoke pours from his wounds.



Note however that since the show does not have Aegon, it looks like we won't have the switched appearances reveal. Which probably has more to do with D&D not wanting to use too much magic on their audience.


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