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What motivates the Others?


Coxy

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Although I've been reading posts on this forum for a while, I've only just decided to actually contribute - so please don't be too harsh!

GRRM has made it clear that he didn't want to include an indiscriminately evil enemy in his stories. It therefore stands to reason that he must have planned to give the Others justifiable motivation for their actions.

Religion, wealth, and power are the central motivations in the world he depicts as far as my interpretation. So which is it for the Others? I lean towards religion. I don't have much in the way of evidence to offer. Just seems to me that the Others may be converting people in a theological and literal way.

With that in mind I wonder why they're moving forward now. They've been largely quiet for thousands of years and are disconnected from the politics of Westeros so can't see them simply seizing an opportunity to strike. So what might they know about? I don't think it is the re-emergence of dragons in the world because there were dragons in the world when the Others were silent. Also they started to make a play before Dany hatched her eggs. I think it's Jon Snow and I think for them he might be considered something of a saviour figure. His death and subsequent rebirth would tie in with a religious motivation. Again I don't have any evidence to back this up.

Why do the Others kill men and turn them into Wights? I wonder if it could be that men fight for their own reasons and to come to an agreement with them is harder than just bending them to the will of the Others through force.

I know this is all as full of holes as a collander. I really just want to know what other peoples thoughts are on why the Others are doing what they're doing?

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I assume the Others were always around up north and as humans pushed north we started taking their land like we did everyone/thing elses and they responded the only way they could. Bran thinks to himself that if men were treated the way men treated the cotf they would not just die off meekly, they would swear and curse and kill and fight to the last. I figure that is what is happening.


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I have this idea that the Others create wights to use as expendable infantry because they are badly outnumbered by the humans.



There is a theory that the War for the Dawn ended with a peace treaty and that somehow men broke the treaty unknowingly, thus bringing the wrath of the Others back down upon themselves.



Then there's one of my favorite crackpots of my own: the Others in general are still where they've been for the last several thousand years and it's a rogue group led by Night's King who are out for revenge on both sides after the death of NK's beloved queen. Thus the King/President of the Others, and the leaders of men will have to work together to eliminate the threat that would wipe them all out.



And there's a possibility that the Others are cursed and need to gather some items associated with the curse and then use the blood of a male Stark to fix the whole thing a la The Curse of the Black Pearl. They can't get to Bran, may not be able to reach Rickon, and Robb is dead. So Jon, the hidden Turner, I mean Stark, will have to do. Though now that I consider it, an ice curse seems more like the work of fire people. Maybe they need Targ blood, which also puts Jon in as the curse-lifting candidate. POTC stuff aside, a curse on the Others seems like a real possibility. I've long thought that the Heart of Winter being destroyed would fix a lot of things. If there's someone in Westeros who can do that, it may be that the Others are searching for him/her.


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They were wronged. Their name was dragged through the depths, and the world perceives them are emotionless, mindless genocidal beings. Savages.



Yet, they have the ability to compromise, think. Even come to agreements and peace to a certain extent, as seen through Wildling blood tribute and Craster's blood tributes (all male)



We've never necessarily seen an Other create a Wight, though it's heavily implied. One doesn't justify and validate the other necessarily.



As is Valyrian blood (not JUST, Targaryen blood) to be able to harness blood magic and manipulate dragons, so to is First Men blood to harness the old magics and receive the "Ice Gift" (i.e., turn Other, through transference of the power from a legti Other to a human being). Targaryens dominate dragons more than other Valyrian houses did, and Craster's male progenies clearly accept the Ice Gift rather easily. I summize it's because of the incest to potenize the purity of the blood. Craster wasn't just being a pig, even though he is, but he was also protectinghis bloodline against contamination from other outside houses (i.e., The Night's Watch). This may have been known to him, or advised to him by the Others, but he was very strict on not touching his daughters, perhaps he was also protecting himself from said consequences.



All theory, all speculation, but it makes sense.



As far as the Others motivation, they seem to have a system, a pattern. Notice, and ill mention this here, too as it might lead to discussion: Others take Craster's children, they father none. They takeonly the males, so there are no females to wive/marry. Lastly, they appear nomadic, always on the move, in undesignated lands beyond the wall, so they technically hold/carry no lands. Sound at all familiar?



I would also bring to everyone's attentiont he biggest red herring in the entire series: The Wall itself, is made up of the very core element the Others can manipulate/control/form into objects. Dont try to debate that the bottom eighth of it is construct, the majority of it is ice. It's there, there's no debate.


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I have this idea that the Others create wights to use as expendable infantry because they are badly outnumbered by the humans.

There is a theory that the War for the Dawn ended with a peace treaty and that somehow men broke the treaty unknowingly, thus bringing the wrath of the Others back down upon themselves.

Then there's one of my favorite crackpots of my own: the Others in general are still where they've been for the last several thousand years and it's a rogue group led by Night's King who are out for revenge on both sides after the death of NK's beloved queen. Thus the King/President of the Others, and the leaders of men will have to work together to eliminate the threat that would wipe them all out.

And there's a possibility that the Others are cursed and need to gather some items associated with the curse and then use the blood of a male Stark to fix the whole thing a la The Curse of the Black Pearl. They can't get to Bran, may not be able to reach Rickon, and Robb is dead. So Jon, the hidden Turner, I mean Stark, will have to do. Though now that I consider it, an ice curse seems more like the work of fire people. Maybe they need Targ blood, which also puts Jon in as the curse-lifting candidate. POTC stuff aside, a curse on the Others seems like a real possibility. I've long thought that the Heart of Winter being destroyed would fix a lot of things. If there's someone in Westeros who can do that, it may be that the Others are searching for him/her.

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Lady Blizzardborn, havent seen you in awhile, hope youve been well :) I think you dbe interested in my Origins of the Night's King link in my signature, a lot of it complies witht he romeo and juliet theory you had :)


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They were wronged. Their name was dragged through the depths, and the world perceives them are emotionless, mindless genocidal beings. Savages.

Yet, they have the ability to compromise, think. Even come to agreements and peace to a certain extent, as seen through Wildling blood tribute and Craster's blood tributes (all male)

We've never necessarily seen an Other create a Wight, though it's heavily implied. One doesn't justify and validate the other necessarily.

As is Valyrian blood (not JUST, Targaryen blood) to be able to harness blood magic and manipulate dragons, so to is First Men blood to harness the old magics and receive the "Ice Gift" (i.e., turn Other, through transference of the power from a legti Other to a human being). Targaryens dominate dragons more than other Valyrian houses did, and Craster's male progenies clearly accept the Ice Gift rather easily. I summize it's because of the incest to potenize the purity of the blood. Craster wasn't just being a pig, even though he is, but he was also protectinghis bloodline against contamination from other outside houses (i.e., The Night's Watch). This may have been known to him, or advised to him by the Others, but he was very strict on not touching his daughters, perhaps he was also protecting himself from said consequences.

All theory, all speculation, but it makes sense.

As far as the Others motivation, they seem to have a system, a pattern. Notice, and ill mention this here, too as it might lead to discussion: Others take Craster's children, they father none. They takeonly the males, so there are no females to wive/marry. Lastly, they appear nomadic, always on the move, in undesignated lands beyond the wall, so they technically hold/carry no lands. Sound at all familiar?

I would also bring to everyone's attentiont he biggest red herring in the entire series: The Wall itself, is made up of the very core element the Others can manipulate/control/form into objects. Dont try to debate that the bottom eighth of it is construct, the majority of it is ice. It's there, there's no debate.

Thank you for your very interesting thoughts. If only First Men can be given the ice gift, what would the Others have done before their arrival?
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They were wronged. Their name was dragged through the depths, and the world perceives them are emotionless, mindless genocidal beings. Savages.

Yet, they have the ability to compromise, think. Even come to agreements and peace to a certain extent, as seen through Wildling blood tribute and Craster's blood tributes (all male)

We've never necessarily seen an Other create a Wight, though it's heavily implied. One doesn't justify and validate the other necessarily.

As is Valyrian blood (not JUST, Targaryen blood) to be able to harness blood magic and manipulate dragons, so to is First Men blood to harness the old magics and receive the "Ice Gift" (i.e., turn Other, through transference of the power from a legti Other to a human being). Targaryens dominate dragons more than other Valyrian houses did, and Craster's male progenies clearly accept the Ice Gift rather easily. I summize it's because of the incest to potenize the purity of the blood. Craster wasn't just being a pig, even though he is, but he was also protectinghis bloodline against contamination from other outside houses (i.e., The Night's Watch). This may have been known to him, or advised to him by the Others, but he was very strict on not touching his daughters, perhaps he was also protecting himself from said consequences.

All theory, all speculation, but it makes sense.

As far as the Others motivation, they seem to have a system, a pattern. Notice, and ill mention this here, too as it might lead to discussion: Others take Craster's children, they father none. They takeonly the males, so there are no females to wive/marry. Lastly, they appear nomadic, always on the move, in undesignated lands beyond the wall, so they technically hold/carry no lands. Sound at all familiar?

I would also bring to everyone's attentiont he biggest red herring in the entire series: The Wall itself, is made up of the very core element the Others can manipulate/control/form into objects. Dont try to debate that the bottom eighth of it is construct, the majority of it is ice. It's there, there's no debate.

Hey Blaz! Good to see you, buddy!

We don't really know that the Others don't father children of their own. They may take Craster's sons in order to study and thus better understand humans, so as to have a better chance of beating men this time around.

Dude, if you're building up that far north, you use a material available in abundance, and one that is not likely to be easily deconstructed...ice. They have sea water (the wall weeps salt tears), they have lakes, and no one is going to burn down a wall that's not wooden. Nor will anyone try to melt the Wall as it would only flood them out if they tried.

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Lady Blizzardborn, havent seen you in awhile, hope youve been well :) I think you dbe interested in my Origins of the Night's King link in my signature, a lot of it complies witht he romeo and juliet theory you had :)

Eh, life's been...eventful. I'm mostly okay though. I'll be sure and check that out!

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Thank you for your very interesting thoughts. If only First Men can be given the ice gift, what would the Others have done before their arrival?

Thrive, as they did. And I think that's a big point. I'm a big fan of Fomas' interpretation of Others, that the first Others were nothing more than a group of First Men, that travelled north, and north, into the Heart of Winter. Youve seen (on the show, admittedly) the gift get transferred, transferred, from one being to another. Theyre never bred, theyre turned.

Yet it's also confirmed the Others are to be a separate, elf-like perfect beautiful race. This separates the north into the three familiar factions: Ancient (Trve Kvlt) Others, the ones wearing the irridescent armor, wielding crystal blades and speaking in alien ancient tongue, the Neverborn, as GRRM named them (the way i perceive it, the Turned, ie. those that were never born as that perfect race, Craster's/Wildling males), and the Wights.

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Or are you saying that there were no Others before the First Men? Was the Night's King the first of their type? I've heard a theory that the Night's Queen was similar to Melissandra and became the way she was after a period of time so I guess that makes sense.

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Or are you saying that there were no Others before the First Men? Was the Night's King the first of their type? I've heard a theory that the Night's Queen was similar to Melissandra and became the way she was after a period of time so I guess that makes sense.

Noooo, no. The Night's King came waaaaay after the Long Night, chronologically. It's a separate scenario, a lot of people think The Night's King started it all, this isnt true. The Night's King was a Lord Commander, that Old Nan (and myself) is sure was a Stark. When he fell in battle (at Winterfell, thus the name of where winter fell), he was exiled forever. This is where I speculate the original Ice was lost (never lost, just exiled, with him to the north).

You too, should check out the link in my signature. All based on confirmed fact, with the holes that we simply dont have as fact, plugged with theory. It also suggests that perhaps every single Stark since that time, may have been, descended from The Night's King himself.

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Noooo, no. The Night's King came waaaaay after the Long Night, chronologically. It's a separate scenario, a lot of people think The Night's King started it all, this isnt true. The Night's King was a Lord Commander, that Old Nan (and myself) is sure was a Stark. When he fell in battle (at Winterfell, thus the name of where winter fell), he was exiled forever. This is where I speculate the original Ice was lost (never lost, just exiled, with him to the north).

You too, should check out the link in my signature. All based on confirmed fact, with the holes that we simply dont have as fact, plugged with theory. It also suggests that perhaps every single Stark since that time, may have been, descended from The Night's King himself.

I will check out your link. And yes you're right I'm confusing my timeline.
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They were wronged. Their name was dragged through the depths, and the world perceives them are emotionless, mindless genocidal beings. Savages.

Yet, they have the ability to compromise, think. Even come to agreements and peace to a certain extent, as seen through Wildling blood tribute and Craster's blood tributes (all male)

We've never necessarily seen an Other create a Wight, though it's heavily implied. One doesn't justify and validate the other necessarily.

As is Valyrian blood (not JUST, Targaryen blood) to be able to harness blood magic and manipulate dragons, so to is First Men blood to harness the old magics and receive the "Ice Gift" (i.e., turn Other, through transference of the power from a legti Other to a human being). Targaryens dominate dragons more than other Valyrian houses did, and Craster's male progenies clearly accept the Ice Gift rather easily. I summize it's because of the incest to potenize the purity of the blood. Craster wasn't just being a pig, even though he is, but he was also protectinghis bloodline against contamination from other outside houses (i.e., The Night's Watch). This may have been known to him, or advised to him by the Others, but he was very strict on not touching his daughters, perhaps he was also protecting himself from said consequences.

All theory, all speculation, but it makes sense.

As far as the Others motivation, they seem to have a system, a pattern. Notice, and ill mention this here, too as it might lead to discussion: Others take Craster's children, they father none. They takeonly the males, so there are no females to wive/marry. Lastly, they appear nomadic, always on the move, in undesignated lands beyond the wall, so they technically hold/carry no lands. Sound at all familiar?

I would also bring to everyone's attentiont he biggest red herring in the entire series: The Wall itself, is made up of the very core element the Others can manipulate/control/form into objects. Dont try to debate that the bottom eighth of it is construct, the majority of it is ice. It's there, there's no debate.

Why do you think they're making a move now? Is it because they come with winter or do they bring winter with them? I think it's more likely the latter. If that's the case they would still need a purpose for acting now. Whatever that is intrigues me.
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I subscribe to the theory that humans somehow violated a pact that was made between the White Walkers and the First Men/CoTF after the Battle for the Dawn and that's why they're coming back. I don't really know what that violation might be though.

Yes this seems reasonable. What do you think has changed that could be a catalyst? The Starks were still at Winterfell when the Others came back on the radar so I don't think it's that.
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ummmmmmmm, I hesitate.



[falls back on his cheerleader roots]: "Ready? Okay!" Let's do this:



You see.....



well, the reason why we have trouble answering this question is .....



they're the Others.



So their motivations will be other than ours. Which means we can't know the Others' motivations. Which is why we don't.



They don't seem to use sex to sell products. And it's tough to tell whether they agree with Whitney Houston's assertion that the children are the future. It's difficult to get a good read on them. Because there's been almost nothing to read about them thus far.


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