The alliances in the North make no sense?

[Getright]

I don't understand the alliances that are made up in the North.

The events of the Red Wedding led to the massacre of members throughout most of Northern Houses under the orders of Roose Bolton, yet these Houses that had family members massacred still hold fealty towards him?

It makes no sense, such as the Cerwyns, Umbers, Ryswells, Tallharts... The soldiers in these armies probably had brothers, Farthers and sons killed due to the Boltons, and even if they didn't their true King in the North was taken away because of him yet these Houses can still muster men to fight under his banner and not the other way round? These Houses held so much loyalty to the Starks and traditions, I highly doubt Ryswell soldiers would take up arms against Stark men just because their lady wed a Dustin.

Why is it that the Mormonts and Mountain Clans are the only Houses that declare on the Boltons right away? Even Stannis had to retake Deepwood Motte to encourage not even a quarter of Glover forces to retake Winterfell. Wtf is wrong with Northerners.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Because the Red Wedding didn't just kill people, but it also involved taking high born Northern hostages.

Also it helps that the 3,500 soldiers who returned as well as the 2,000 Freys and however many the Dustins and Ryswells can contribute give Roose a numerical advantage over the remaining rest of the North.

Hostages and numbers means that many Houses have sworn fealty to the new Warden of the North.

[Getright]

Because the Red Wedding didn't just kill people, but it also involved taking high born Northern hostages.

Also it helps that the 3,500 soldiers who returned as well as the 2,000 Freys and however many the Dustins and Ryswells can contribute give Roose a numerical advantage over the remaining rest of the North.

Hostages and numbers means that many Houses have sworn fealty to the new Warden of the North.

I understand that many houses must force fealty, but even if they give fealty how do they raise the men to fight for a cause they do not believe in? The soldiers don't have their low born family taken hostage so why should they care to fight? They would fight for Stannis.

[ilikethesebooks]

I think they fear the crown to some degree and are planning revenge based on what I've read.

[Getright]

I think they fear the crown to some degree and are planning revenge based on what I've read.

The Boltons made an alliance with Tywin alone, Tywin is dead so they have no southern or Crown support so I can't see why they would be scared.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

I understand that many houses must force fealty, but even if they give fealty how do they raise the men to fight for a cause they do not believe in? The soldiers don't have their low born family taken hostage so why should they care to fight?

Do you think that soldiers only get involved for causes they believe in?

I imagine many of the 20k raised by Robb didn't really care if Ned was arrested or not, but they went because their Lords cared or were scared of the consequences of not obeying their liege lords the Starks.

The remaining Houses who have sworn fealty to Roose have done so out of worry over family members who are still hostage or the threat that Roose will attack them with his superior numbers.

They would fight for Stannis.

I think you are vastly overrating the Northern peoples feelings towards Stannis. He is just another southern lord to them.

[Getright]

Do you think that soldiers only get involved for causes they believe in?

I imagine many of the 20k raised by Robb didn't really care if Ned was arrested or not, but they went because their Lords cared or were scared of the consequences of not obeying their liege lords the Starks.

The remaining Houses who have sworn fealty to Roose have done so out of worry over family members who are still hostage or the threat that Roose will attack them with his superior numbers.

I think you are vastly overrating the Northern peoples feelings towards Stannis. He is just another southern lord to them.

I think the Boltons slaughtering family members would be a rather good cause to fight for Stannis, the only hope of retaking the North from the ones that wronged them, yes. I know I would. Like you said, they are just their lords that are arrested so they don't care, I'm sure the common soldiers of the Ryswell, Tallharts, Manderlys so on, would fight for vengeance of their own families so they would fight under another banner and abandon their current House that holds fealty to the Boltons.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

I think the Boltons slaughtering family members would be a rather good cause to fight for Stannis, the only hope of retaking the North from the ones that wronged them

Because Stannis doesnt just want to retake the North from the Boltons, he wants to install his own ruler in Winterfell and take the remaining Northern soldiers and wealth and fight another war in the South.

The Northern people have been in a state of constant war, and losses at home for almost two years. Supporting Stannis means more of the same, accepting Roose means peace and preparing for Winter.

Your average person wants peace over war. Especially in the case of Stannis, an unwinnable war which does not benefit the north at all.

[Getright]

Because Stannis doesnt just want to retake the North from the Boltons, he wants to install his own ruler in Winterfell and take the remaining Northern soldiers and wealth and fight another war in the South.

The Northern people have been in a state of constant war, and losses at home for almost two years. Supporting Stannis means more of the same, accepting Roose means peace and preparing for Winter.

Your average person wants peace over war. Especially in the case of Stannis, an unwinnable war which does not benefit the north at all.

Now you're starting to make sense!

But if Stannis really wants the support of Northern soldiers the only way to do that would be putting the Starks back as Wardens of the North. Not installing his own leader. The reason the Mormonts are fighting by Stannis is because they want the 'true Warden of the North' back in power.

The fight that's currently going on, March on Winterfell and what not, for example: if I was a Cerwyn soldier I would much rather be fighting by Stannis rather than the men that slaughtered my family. I just find it hard to believe some of the Houses; Hother Umber for example can raise soldiers to fight these battles, some of his soldiers are older men that probably had sons taken from them due to the same guy they are fighting under. They would join the Mormonts army or go hiding or something.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ."

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ." And the Bolton has the numbers and united with Dustin,Ryswell and Hornwood and Freys by marriage .

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ." And the Bolton has the numbers and united with Dustin,Ryswell and Hornwood and Freys by marriage .

[Getright]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ."

The noble lords of the houses may fear the Boltons, but the men fighting under these houses will not, that's what I'm trying to get at. The houses still may hold fealty but it's strange they can still raise an army without full on mutiny and migration to rebelling houses.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ." And the Bolton has the numbers and united with Dustin,Ryswell and Hornwood and Freys by marriage .

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ." And the Bolton has the numbers and united with Dustin,Ryswell and Hornwood and Freys by marriage .

[Getright]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ."

The Noble Lords of the Houses may fear the Boltons, but the men fighting under these Houses will not, that's what I'm trying to get at. The Houses still hold fealty but it's strange they can still raise an army without full on mutiny and migration to rebelling houses.

If I was a Lord of a House which a family member was taken hostage by the Boltons I would be telling my men in secrecy to fight for another House.

[Ramsay Gimp]

The common soldiers do what their lords tell them to 99% of the time. Plus what makes you think the common soldier (who doesn't receive ravens and can't read anyway) is even aware that the Boltons were involved in the Red Wedding? The Freys got all the public blame

[Nihlus]

The common soldiers do what their lords tell them to 99% of the time. Plus what makes you think the common soldier, who doesn't receive ravens and can't read anyway, knows the Boltons were involved in the Red Wedding? The Freys got all the public blame

There is the rather obvious fact that, while all other Northern lords at the Twins died, Roose Bolton came back with a Frey wife. That, and he's currently allied with the Freys, and allowing Frey soldiers in Winterfell. Everybody knows Roose did it, but since no one wants to be the one to say anything, they settle for just insulting the Freys. It's weird that Barbrey never brings it up, though...

[kimim]

The Noble Lords of the Houses may fear the Boltons, but the men fighting under these Houses will not, that's what I'm trying to get at. The Houses still hold fealty but it's strange they can still raise an army without full on mutiny and migration to rebelling houses.

If I was a Lord of a House which a family member was taken hostage by the Boltons I would be telling my men in secrecy to fight for another House.

The North lost a lord (Ned) then fought and lost a war (Robb). Its most powerful family got wiped out. Freys and Lannisters are holding people hostage. Stannis is heading south, accompanied by mountain clans and a priestess who keeps spitting on northern gods. Jon and Stannis are trying to settle wildlings in the Gift. The Greyjoys are active again. There are weird rumors from beyond the Wall. Winter is coming, and it's going to be a long one.

It's not at all surprising that northerners aren't jumping with joy at another war. Their world is, to put it mildly, at a tricky place right now.

[Ramsay Gimp]

There is the rather obvious fact that, while all other Northern lords at the Twins died, Roose Bolton came back with a Frey wife. That, and he's currently allied with the Freys, and allowing Frey soldiers in Winterfell. Everybody knows Roose did it, but since no one wants to be the one to say anything, they settle for just insulting the Freys.

This would apply to the Northern lords but not to the common soldiers. I really doubt they are that well-informed or even care enough about the RW to piece all that info together

It's weird that Barbrey never brings it up, though...

Well she does say "He'll remove Stannis, like he removed the Young Wolf" when talking to Theon/Reek