The alliances in the North make no sense?

[Nihlus]

This would apply to the Northern lords but not to the common soldiers. I really doubt they are that well-informed or even care enough about the RW to piece all that info together

Well she does say "He'll remove Stannis, like he removed the Young Wolf" when talking to Theon/Reek

I think you're underestimating the common soldiers (who would be in the upper levels of society, btw). They should know extremely basic facts about where they're going and who's in the same army that they're in. They should all know that Roose is alive, with Frey soldiers, after an event where every other Northern lord died. They might not care (or at least not enough to override their bystander syndrome), but they definitely know.

Well yeah, but I meant she should have said something about Roose leading the slaughter of the Northmen, not just personally killing Robert Jr. She seemed pissed at the Freys for the Dustin men killed at the Twins.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Yeah theres the fact boltons were joint 2nd or 3rd strongest house and have frey ,ryswell,dustin backing as well as lannister

The other major houses are shellshocked ,remainimg men scattered and hostages at the twins

Mix in the ironborn attacks taking some houses out of it and karstarks being embrolled in their own schemes

manderly seemingly knucking under as well

Overall its understandable the resistance takes time to mustee among lords ie,manderly

[Getright]

Yeah theres the fact boltons were joint 2nd or 3rd strongest house and have frey ,ryswell,dustin backing as well as lannister

The other major houses are shellshocked ,remainimg men scattered and hostages at the twins

Mix in the ironborn attacks taking some houses out of it and karstarks being embrolled in their own schemes

manderly seemingly knucking under as well

Overall its understandable the resistance takes time to mustee among lords ie,manderly

The Ryswells backing the Boltons makes no sense at all to me. I still don't understand how such a loyal House to the Starks can raise men to fight for the man that murdered family members of soldiers within it's ranks just because it's lady wed a Dustin. I mean wtf. You would have thought the Lady would have persuaded the Dustin soldiers to support the Starks, not the other way around.

[BalerionTheCat]

I suppose they don't know how much the Boltons betrayed the Starks. Some are following because the Boltons are representing the alliance with the Lannisters and the 7K. And are afraid of going against that. And Stannis doesn't look good. But should a Stark reappear, many will desert the Boltons.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

If you have a lot of time, or just a little, this should explain it.

[LOTRTheoryOfLakerThrones]

The lovely Barbrey Dustin said it ,"They fear the Boltons ."

I think the Starks put it better, "Winter is Coming". The Northeners are tired of war. They defienently don't want to be fighting one in a harsh winter.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

The Ryswells backing the Boltons makes no sense at all to me. I still don't understand how such a loyal House to the Starks can raise men to fight for the man that murdered family members of soldiers within it's ranks just because it's lady wed a Dustin. I mean wtf. You would have thought the Lady would have persuaded the Dustin soldiers to support the Starks, not the other way around.

What evidence do you have that the Ryswells are particularly loyal to the Starks?

The Starks are the rulers of the North, just like the Lannisters in the West, the Tyrells in the Reach or even the Targs when they ruled the Kingdom not every vassal is going to be 100% loyal. Some have no choice but to be loyal.

[Getright]

What evidence do you have that the Ryswells are particularly loyal to the Starks?

The Starks are the rulers of the North, just like the Lannisters in the West, the Tyrells in the Reach or even the Targs when they ruled the Kingdom not every vassal is going to be 100% loyal. Some have no choice but to be loyal.

Rodrik Ryswell is extremely hostile towards the Freys, several of his men were slaughtered at the Red Wedding, the fact that the family goes back generations of loyalty to the house, one of the members volunteered and died at the Tower of Joy for Ned. Even tradition to them is more important than family, I recall that a Ryswell deserter of the nights watch tried to hide but his own farther sent him back to the wall for execution.

Him being hostile towards the Freys will technically mean he's hostile towards the Boltons as they were obviously in on it too. Yet some how his men stand by Rooses side?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Rodrik Ryswell is extremely hostile towards the Freys, several of his men were slaughtered at the Red Wedding, the fact that the family goes back generations of loyalty to the house, one of the members volunteered and died at the Tower of Joy for Ned. Even tradition to them is more important than family, I recall that a Ryswell deserter of the nights watch tried to hide but his own farther sent him back to the wall for execution.

Him being hostile towards the Freys will technically mean he's hostile towards the Boltons as they were obviously in on it too. Yet some how his men stand by Rooses side?

Being hostile towards the Freys is not the same as being hostile towards the Boltons. You are jumping to conclusions there.

Roose Boltons first wife was a Ryswell. Lord Rodrik named his youngest son after Roose. They clearly have good relations, much closer to the Boltons than they were the Starks.

[Getright]

Being hostile towards the Freys is not the same as being hostile towards the Boltons. You are jumping to conclusions there.

Roose Boltons first wife was a Ryswell. Lord Rodrik named his youngest son after Roose. They clearly have good relations, much closer to the Boltons than they were the Starks.

That was for a small period. Roose Ryswell is a grown man now, Roose Boltons first wife died of a fever and it's pretty obvious that Ramsay, Rooses son murdered Domeric Bolton a healthy boy of Ryswell blood that spontaneously died out of nothing. Good relations, sure. Pretty odd two of their family members died under a Bolton roof.

And yes, if several of my men died due to the Freys and I knew the Boltons were in on it (which they know they were) you would never be so stupid to carry on happy relations with them, a normal man would want to hack every living Boltons head off and piss on their corpse.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

That was for a small period. Roose Ryswell is a grown man now, Roose Boltons first wife died of a fever and it's pretty obvious that Ramsay, Rooses son murdered Domeric Bolton a healthy boy of Ryswell blood that spontaneously died out of nothing. Good relations, sure. Pretty odd two of their family members died under a Bolton roof.

People die, its the middle ages. You might find it odd, The Ryswells have accepted it.

What we have seen is that the Ryswells and Dustins are supporting Roose, they may hate Ramsay but seem to respect Roose.

[Getright]

People die, its the middle ages. You might find it odd, The Ryswells have accepted it.

What we have seen is that the Ryswells and Dustins are supporting Roose, they may hate Ramsay but seem to respect Roose.

It's a pretty Large flaw if they respect the man that ordered the slaughter of their men.

Fair enough if it was a well kept secret that Roose was involved, but it's well know.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

Well, they took hostages and Roose avoided a total defeat from the crown, coz Robb had no chance to win. Also Tywin was at the side of Roose and made him Warden of the North, not someone to fight against. Plus Roose's first wife was a Ryswell, who was the sister of Barbrey Ryswell who is now Lady Dustin, so there's some kind of link between the Boltons, Ryswells and Dustins. Robb executed Lord Karstark, so no wonder they are with Roose. The Umbers wants to be on the winner's side since Mors and Hother support different guys. The Flints of Widow's Watch, the Lockes, the Cerwyns and the Hornwoods are not strong enough to go against Roose, so they obey him. So it's logical that they stay with Roose.

And the others? Wyman Manderly follows Roose but as we know he has his own plans. The Mormonts live on Bear Island, even if they don't obey Roose, it's not likely that Roose will ship there to fight them. Nearly the same goes for the Mountain Clans, they live in the barren mountains, aren't a big deal against Roose. Also Winter is coming, so he probably ignores that the Mormonts and Mountain Clans are against him.

[Knight Of Winter]

What alliances? Half of Northern lords is in open rebellion against Boltons, while some of the others who seemingly support them are actually secretly plotting their downfall. In fact, the only ones Roose can count on are his own troops, Freys and maybe (and a big maybe here) Ryswells and Dustins.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

It's a pretty Large flaw if they respect the man that ordered the slaughter of their men.

Fair enough if it was a well kept secret that Roose wasn't involved, but it's well know.

It depends how many men they lost. Robb only really had the cavalry with him so the Rysewell and Dustin horse would have most certainly been slaughtered at the Red Wedding.

It could well be that many of the Dustin and Ryswell infantry were kept alive and part of the returning 4,000 with Roose.

Sure, some would have died but that is what happens in war. Lord Rodrik would have been prepared for the fact that many of his men who left with Robb would never return. Roose has offered a chance to end the war, that would be pretty tempting for some, though not all, Lords.

[Getright]

Well, they took hostages and Roose avoided a total defeat from the crown, coz Robb had no chance to win. Also Tywin was at the side of Roose and made him Warden of the North, not someone to fight against. Plus Roose's first wife was a Ryswell, who was the sister of Barbrey Ryswell who is now Lady Dustin, so there's some kind of link between the Boltons, Ryswells and Dustins. Robb executed Lord Karstark, so no wonder they are with Roose. The Umbers wants to be on the winner's side since Mors and Hother support different guys. The Flints of Widow's Watch, the Lockes, the Cerwyns and the Hornwoods are not strong enough to go against Roose, so they obey him. So it's logical that they stay with Roose.

And the others? Wyman Manderly follows Roose but as we know he has his own plans. The Mormonts live on Bear Island, even if they don't obey Roose, it's not likely that Roose will ship there to fight them. Nearly the same goes for the Mountain Clans, they live in the barren mountains, aren't a big deal against Roose. Also Winter is coming, so he probably ignores that the Mormonts and Mountain Clans are against him.

Well wrote, but Rob did stand a chance against the crown, not all was lost, he hardly lost a battle but Roose truly ended it and betrayed him.

I do hope in the coming books all the houses rise against him excluding the Dustins, that will be when things truly start becoming logical. No matter how much people try to deny it Ryswell-Bolton relations are edgy and if you look at it you can see there is no way Rodrik would have a true alliance with them.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

What alliances? Half of Northern lords is in open rebellion against Boltons, while some of the others who seemingly support them are actually secretly plotting their downfall. In fact, the only ones Roose can count on are his own troops, Freys and maybe (and a big maybe here) Ryswells and Dustins.

No they are not, unless there is another meaning for 'open rebellion'.

[Getright]

What alliances? Half of Northern lords is in open rebellion against Boltons, while some of the others who seemingly support them are actually secretly plotting their downfall. In fact, the only ones Roose can count on are his own troops, Freys and maybe (and a big maybe here) Ryswells and Dustins.

I can see the Dustin's remaining loyal, but Ryswells, no. Not a chance.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I can see the Dustin's remaining loyal, but Ryswells, no. Not a chance.

So you've made up your mind, what's the point of this thread?

[hodorisfaclessman]

The Ryswells backing the Boltons makes no sense at all to me. I still don't understand how such a loyal House to the Starks can raise men to fight for the man that murdered family members of soldiers within it's ranks just because it's lady wed a Dustin. I mean wtf. You would have thought the Lady would have persuaded the Dustin soldiers to support the Starks, not the other way around.

Remember cat said something to robb about them being bannermen not friends , they kneel to strengh its not a popularity contest.

The ryswells seem to be looking to lady barbrey for their lead and she seems to hate the starks ...but may also be seeking revenge , for now they knuckle under.