Who truly was the best warrior of all time?

[mystickristoff]

Sure, Barristan Selmy seems to be the best one of this age, but considering those already dead, who truly was the best one of them all? Arthur Dayne is dead and was considered Selmy's equal. But who else?

By best, I do mean in single combat. This is limited to only humans... so no dragons or giants.

[Lykos]

Ser Galadon of Morne was the best in every sense ( but especially the qualities that define The Warrior of The Seven).

[TheSmallOther]

Sure, Barristan Selmy seems to be the best one of this age, but considering those already dead, who truly was the best one of them all? Arthur Dayne is dead and was considered Selmy's equal. But who else?

By best, I do mean in single combat. This is limited to only humans... so no dragons or giants.

Arthur Dayne was considered to be a finest knight ever. I.e., better than Barristan.

Still, if I remember correctly, it was Barristan himself, who pointed out that sometimes it's one slip on the grass which distinguishes winner from loser. I.e., sometimes even luck matters a lot.

[Priscilla]

I mean, yeah, Barristan's point is that while you might be able to compare skill, you can't say for sure one person will beat another at any given point in time. I think it can be generalised to 'it depends on the criteria', because the fighting styles are so diverse across Planetos that it's difficult to compare them let alone order them, and while speed and cunning are generally shown to trump raw strength, there are issues like reach and weapon to consider and weigh.

Like, the better the fighter the more skill and/or luck and/or other advantage required to win, but there's still going to be some subset that can pull it off at least circumstantially, and probably a few with ambiguous odds.

It's a boringly relativist stance, but there probably is no objective best without an objective set of criteria, especially factoring in the history and legends that likely exist in other places. They probably had divine heroes, legendary weapons, storied mercenaries, and peerless warriors too.

I think it's probably better to restrict attention to comparisons between similar types of fighters, e.g. knights vs. knights, or a particular era, like 'people alive during ASOIAF'. Either way I nominate Daemon Blackfyre, who was said to fight like the Warrior himself, since Arthur Dayne was already mentioned.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

The top of the top is always 50/50 with their weapon of choice... George gave a small edge to Dayne with dawn but with equal steel 50/50 in a ssm long ago, but in later years people asked who's the best and he said the greats can go either way (the margin of Selmy)

IMO the current generation is better than the old ones much like football players are better than the ones 80 years ago (despite the fact we don´t judge it that way), but that's a personal opinion

And this top by feats or words of the author are Selmy, Prime Robert, Dayne and Jaime... closely followed by the Clegane/Tyrell brothers and Oberyn

Warrior can mean a lot of things, for example, bare handed the Mountain, Robert and Greatjon would kill anyone pretty fast... and war spirit also counts

If you're asking for all that composes a warrior mind, then... Prime Robert no doubt

Battle away folks...

[Mikkel]

Whoever you want it to be. The "greats" rarely faced each other in anger (practice and tourney fights don't really count), even if they lived during the same era and were in their relative prime at the same time, so there's simply no way to know. And that's before you add in the random factor that would let almost anyone beat anyone if the circumstances were right (for an example off the top of my head, see Podrick Payne vs Mandon Moore).

Nor is Westerosi history particularly reliable (much like our own history), so really... just pick your favorite and give them the crown. Or you can go with the "funny" option and pick Hot Pie, Hodor and Moon Boy, for all I know.

[The Fallen]

I don't think there can be one right answer.

The best could be chosen from among these:

Aemon "The Dragonknight" Targaeryon

Daemon Blackfyre

Arthur "Sword of the Morning" Dayne

Barristan "The Bold" Selmy

Honorable mention to Cregan Stark and Jaime Lannister.

[Daendrew]

The Night's King defeated more people than any of them ;)

[Free Northman Reborn]

Jaime is stated by Martin to be one of the greatest swordsmen in the history of Westeros. So that is fact, from the horse's mouth.

And yet, he is generally ranked just below Arthur Dayne in-universe. And then Martin came and ranked Barristan equal to Arthur Dayne himself, in another direct quote.

So now we know of two warriors who are better than "one of the greatest swordsmen in the history of Westeros". That places both Dayne and Selmy pretty close to the top of the all time fighter list. They might be equaled by some of the legendary knights of old, but very, very few will exceed them, I reckon.

[Mikkel]

Jaime is stated by Martin to be one of the greatest swordsmen in the history of Westeros. So that is fact, from the horse's mouth.

And yet, he is generally ranked just below Arthur Dayne in-universe. And then Martin came and ranked Barristan equal to Arthur Dayne himself, in another direct quote.

So now we know of two warriors who are better than "one of the greatest swordsmen in the history of Westeros". That places both Dayne and Selmy pretty close to the top of the all time fighter list. They might be equaled by some of the legendary knights of old, but very, very few will exceed them, I reckon.

True enough. Key word being "one of", with (afaik) no mention of just how large a pool we're talking - considering the number of swordsmen present in Westeros at any given time, let alone throughout its history, being "one of the greatest in history" could easily mean just being in top-100 or even top-1000. While I doubt that's what GRRM meant, there's no way to tell just what he did mean.

Edit: And in any case, the best we can end up with is a collection of warriors all of whom are legendary (sometimes literally), with no way of knowing just who's the best, and any one of which could beat any of the others on a good day, or lose on a bad one.

[LindsayLohan]

King Bobby B. Better equipped for armored combat, physically larger and stronger than his opponents, and at his core, simply loved to fight. There's a reason he died King Robert Baratheon, not Lord Robert, or Ser Robert.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

It can't be answered. Theres just know way to find out who could win in a duel between the Dragonknight and Daemon Blackfyre. In terms of who was the most decorated warrior however, it's Barristan Selmy by far.

[Nictarion]

Daemon Blackfyre was described as fighting like the Warrior himself, so I'm going with him.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Arthur was only better than Barristan when he was using Dawn.

To truly decide this, we have to ditch the magic swords and just let them fight it out.

The list would definitely include several KG, including Barry and Art, and several Targs as well (Aemon, Daemon, Rhaegar, Aegon I maybe).

Cregan Stark is supposed to have been a really great swordsman.

Jaime possibly.

[mdw4950]

its really tough to judge. martin himself had a quote something along the lines of 'between the elite fighters, what they ate for breakfast could be the determining factor.' after that theres some fighters who are simply better suited against others. for example, oberyns strategy against the mountain (running, taunting, tiring him out and getting him off his mental game) wouldnt work against a lot of other elite fighters. king robert relied almost completely on brute force with his size and strength advantage; how would he fare against a guy like the hound whos slightly bigger and generally regarded as a quick fighter, not just quick for his size. we know jaime is one of the best before he loses his hand, but we never really see him fight anyone. a lot of how hes judged comes from his own perspectives. not saying hes overrated but of course someone with his attitude is going to think hes better than everyone. things like that. its a fun debate though.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

its really tough to judge. martin himself had a quote something along the lines of 'between the elite fighters, what they ate for breakfast could be the determining factor.' after that theres some fighters who are simply better suited against others. for example, oberyns strategy against the mountain (running, taunting, tiring him out and getting him off his mental game) wouldnt work against a lot of other elite fighters. king robert relied almost completely on brute force with his size and strength advantage; how would he fare against a guy like the hound whos slightly bigger and generally regarded as a quick fighter, not just quick for his size. we know jaime is one of the best before he loses his hand, but we never really see him fight anyone. a lot of how hes judged comes from his own perspectives. not saying hes overrated but of course someone with his attitude is going to think hes better than everyone. things like that. its a fun debate though.

There's absolutely no proof he relied on just his brute strength. That's just a part of the fandom thinking "Robert strength+warhammer=dumb slow smaller mountain".

[Nihlus]

Gregor Clegane. He wore plate armor three times thicker than a regular man's, wielded a two handed weapon with one hand, was nearly superhumanly strong, and was quite skilled on top of it all. Good luck surviving one hit from him. And forget hurting him without dying yourself. Under his SUPER MEGA PLATE, he wears THREE additional suits of armor. Chainmail, thick boiled leather, and a gambeson. Even a warhammer wielded by a strong man would struggle to do any damage to him in a real fight.

Fights between plate armored men usually devolve into grappling, where strength and weight count for a LOT. Fights between a plate armored man and a non-plate armored man usually end with the more lightly armored man in a puddle of giblets. Gregor's advantages are simply too huge. Like the rest of him.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Gregor Clegane. He wore plate armor three times thicker than a regular man's, wielded a two handed weapon with one hand, was nearly superhumanly strong, and was quite skilled on top of it all. Good luck surviving one hit from him. And forget hurting him without dying yourself. Under his SUPER MEGA PLATE, he wears THREE additional suits of armor. Chainmail, thick boiled leather, and a gambeson. Even a warhammer wielded by a strong man would struggle to do any damage to him in a real fight.

Fights between plate armored men usually devolve into grappling, where strength and weight matter for a LOT. Fights between a plate armored man and a non-plate armored man usually end with the more lightly armored man in a puddle of giblets. Gregor's advantages are simply too huge. Like the rest of him.

This would be true if the series was more realistic. In GRRM's world, castrated boys are the world's best warriors.

[Dorian Martell]

Sure, Barristan Selmy seems to be the best one of this age, but considering those already dead, who truly was the best one of them all? Arthur Dayne is dead and was considered Selmy's equal. But who else?

By best, I do mean in single combat. This is limited to only humans... so no dragons or giants.

the answer is so simple that I'm shocked that none of my fellow book fantasy geeks has said it.

TORMUND"S MEMBER!!!!!!!!!!!

/thread

[Nihlus]

This would be true if the series was more realistic. In GRRM's world, castrated boys are the world's best warriors.

No they're not. I've said this before, but GRRM knows how crappy the Unsullied are, which is why they're unimpressive in every actual battle they're in, why their weaknesses are in their sales pitch, why no one buys them as actual soldiers (instead using way more expensive mercs), and why the only ever Unsullied vs Westerosi battle was a curb-stomp in favor of the Westerosi.

The only person who calls them the world's best soldiers is Kraznys. And he says this while saying they're weak, dumb, and use tactics that are thousands of years out of date. He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.