(BOOK & SHOW SPOILERS) Olly... if he even utters the words "for the Watch"

[Tris_Botley1908]

***SPOILERS***

Okay so if you have read all the ASOIAF books and have watched the show up until last night's episode "The Gift" then you may proceed with this thread.

Anyways, I think it is clear now that Dave & Dan have picked Olly to be the scumbag that kills Jon. Personally, I would hate for this to happen at the hands of some fictitious child that shouldn't even be in the show. For me this takes away the whole reason the Night's Watch did it in the first place in ADWD. As we all know, the "murder" of Jon was done "for the Watch". The brothers who did it had tears in their eyes while doing so. To have Olly kill Jon just because his fictitious family was slaughtered by wildlings would be a giant slap in the face to GRRM and to the ideals of the Night's Watch. They didn't kill Jon out of personal spite, they killed him because they thought what he was doing went against what the Night's Watch stood for. Olly doesn't care about the Night's Watch, their ideals, their history; he's barely even part of them. And finally, if he does indeed kill Jon I better not hear the words "for the Watch" come out if his mouth.

I know this sounds very book purist of me but this is arguably the biggest event in the entire 5th book.

Please let me know what you think and if you have any other theories of how it may go down in the show.

[Valyrian Lance]

***SPOILERS***

Okay so if you have read all the ASOIAF books and have watched the show up until last night's episode "The Gift" then you may proceed with this thread.

Anyways, I think it is clear now that Dave & Dan have picked Olly to be the scumbag that kills Jon. Personally, I would hate for this to happen at the hands of some fictitious child that shouldn't even be in the show. For me this takes away the whole reason the Night's Watch did it in the first place in ADWD. As we all know, the "murder" of Jon was done "for the Watch". The brothers who did it had tears in their eyes while doing so. To have Olly kill Jon just because his fictitious family was slaughtered by wildlings would be a giant slap in the face to GRRM and to the ideals of the Night's Watch. They didn't kill Jon out of personal spite, they killed him because they thought what he was doing went against what the Night's Watch stood for. Olly doesn't care about the Night's Watch, their ideals, their history; he's barely even part of them. And finally, if he does indeed kill Jon I better not hear the words "for the Watch" come out if his mouth.

I know this sounds very book purist of me but this is arguably the biggest event in the entire 5th book.

Please let me know what you think and if you have any other theories of how it may go down in the show.

They have definitely done a fine job foreshadowing that Olly will betray Jon. How ironic would it be that in the book the mutiny was due to Jon caring about his family and in the show it may be about Olly caring about his family. Perhaps it is misdirection. I hope so, because it was so much better when seasoned Night's Watchmen were the ones behind it.

[JonSnowed]

It's definitely the biggest scene in ADWD/AFFC in my eyes however Olly doing the stabbing ahead of Bowen Marsh makes sense in terms of TV because he's been far more visibile and will be more shocking to the general viewing public. I've no doubt that Bowen Marsh and a few other nightwatch brothers will be in on it too though.

Just to also state Jon does not "die" in ADWD he's stabbed and it's left open ended, I feel the show will spoil will the outcome but it seems very few book readers actually believe he's dead either way!

[YoungGriff89]

A route they could take would be the brothers of the Night's Watch turning on Jon and Olly being there but he ultimately decides not to join in and stab Jon. After the "in your face" foreshadowing I doubt anybody besides Olly will start the mutiny, but we'll see in a few weeks.

[midi]

Olly is most likely a Red Herring, that's why they're showing him so much. I don't think he will have any involvement in For The Watch... Who would be mad enough to trust a kid with an intricate plot? He's just reflecting the general feelings of the Night's Watch to us.

[The Eunuch]

"Some fictitious child", thanks for the good laugh :lmao:

[Tagganaro]

Olly is most likely a Red Herring, that's why they're showing him so much. I don't think he will have any involvement in For The Watch... Who would be mad enough to trust a kid with an intricate plot? He's just reflecting the general feelings of the Night's Watch to us.

There's no way he's just a Red Herring imo. He's been too heavily shown for him to be anything but one of the stabbers. To be fair, we don't know how planned out any of this is even in the books. It could be a spur of the moment kind of thing based on the Pink Letter. I think Jon will announce the Pink Letter, get the wildling support, and then Olly will emotionally stab him or be part of the group that does.

[Arya and Needle]

Personally, I would hate for this to happen at the hands of some fictitious child

I'm really sorry to be the one to break this to you, but ASOIAF isn't non-fiction.

[Tinker Tanner]

If anything shouldn't Olly kill Tormund? After all Tormund actually attacked his village.

[King Zee]

What about Edd as a Bowen replacement ?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

In the preview for Hardhome we see Sam explain to Olly how we sometimes have to do bad things for the greater good, meaning of course that Jon had to help the wildlings because he needs them to fight the Others.

What will happen of course is that Olly will remember this piece of advice when Allister Thorne tells him they have to kill Jon. I hope they keep "For the watch". They way it could be done is have Olly lead Jon to where Bowen Marsh is and Marsh, Thorne and a couple more stab him crying "for the Watch!"

[Visenya Stark]

It's become really obvious that Olly is going to be part of the stabbing.

Olly saying "For the Watch" doesn't really fit into his story. I think it's more likely that he'll say something like "For my family".

[Stan Man]

As much as I hate to say it, I think they're leading up to Olly doing the stabbing, or at least playing a crucial role. I wouldn't be surprised if Alliser Thorne guts Jon, Jon sinks to his knees, and then Olly tearfully finishes him. To add to the tragedy, I hope Edd gets a knife in there. It would have been great for Pyp and Grenn to get in on the action... *stares at D&D*

I also think the show has a tendency to remove great lines (no "Only Cat," no "Edd, fetch me a block," among others). Since Alliser Thorne is only motivated by hatred of the wildings and Olly is only motivated by ... hatred of the wildlings, I don't think "For the Watch" will be in there, unless they accentuate in Episodes 8 and 9 that Jon is fundamentally destroying the Night's Watch.

[binhorde]

"For my mum's potatoes."

[Stonehearted Snake]

***SPOILERS***

Okay so if you have read all the ASOIAF books and have watched the show up until last night's episode "The Gift" then you may proceed with this thread.

Anyways, I think it is clear now that Dave & Dan have picked Olly to be the scumbag that kills Jon. Personally, I would hate for this to happen at the hands of some fictitious child that shouldn't even be in the show. For me this takes away the whole reason the Night's Watch did it in the first place in ADWD. As we all know, the "murder" of Jon was done "for the Watch". The brothers who did it had tears in their eyes while doing so. To have Olly kill Jon just because his fictitious family was slaughtered by wildlings would be a giant slap in the face to GRRM and to the ideals of the Night's Watch. They didn't kill Jon out of personal spite, they killed him because they thought what he was doing went against what the Night's Watch stood for. Olly doesn't care about the Night's Watch, their ideals, their history; he's barely even part of them. And finally, if he does indeed kill Jon I better not hear the words "for the Watch" come out if his mouth.

I know this sounds very book purist of me but this is arguably the biggest event in the entire 5th book.

Please let me know what you think and if you have any other theories of how it may go down in the show.

Yeah it's a travesty but they've eliminated so much of the Wall politics already. I just hope Olly doesn't say "For the watch." That's just not his motivation. And I hope Edd doesn't join in though that was hinted at too. Edd is supposed to be with Jon til the end! Le sigh.

[The King Of Cooked Steak]

Why the hell does it matter who from the NW knifes Jon first or who says "for the Watch"? It's not impervious that it really is a certain person. It can be Thorne, Edd, Olly, it doesn't really matter. Olly hates the wildlings because they killed his family. Edd and Thorne because they have killed many of their beloved brothers (Pyp, Grenn, etc.). He has as much of a reason to say the line, as any other guy in the NW. And he techinically is a member of the Watch, so there's that.

Point is, Jon gets betrayed by his brothers. The end. What happens after that is left to discussion until the next book and/or season comes.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

It's heavy handed storytelling where they are giving away the end. The only thing they writers try to do now is to "shock" people and they can't even do that correctly. They are telegraphing everything.

[Arya and Needle]

Why the hell does it matter who from the NW knifes Jon first or who says "for the Watch"? It's not impervious that it really is a certain person. It can be Thorne, Edd, Olly, it doesn't really matter. Olly hates the wildlings because they killed his family. Edd and Thorne because they have killed many of their beloved brothers (Pyp, Grenn, etc.). He has as much of a reason to say the line, as any other guy in the NW. And he techinically is a member of the Watch, so there's that.

Point is, Jon gets betrayed by his brothers. The end. What happens after that is left to discussion until the next book and/or season comes.

Right. The important point is that he gets knifed by the watch brothers, and that there's a lot of people in on it (i.e., it's not just Alliser bossing people around or something).

Personally, all the minor Night's Watch characters sort of blend together for me - Denys, Bowen, Edd, etc. I don't know if this is a fault of the book, the show, both, or neither, but I can see why they'd want to introduce some sort of diversity into the cast (in this case, with age) to make the character a little more memorable.

[Stonehearted Snake]

Agree to disagree. Jon getting the stabby-stabby is important for the plot but the brothers doing it "for the watch" is important for the character and for the themes.

[Arya and Needle]

Agree to disagree. Jon getting the stabby-stabby is important for the plot but the brothers doing it "for the watch" is important for the character and for the themes.

Oh, I agree with that part. I'm just saying that as long as it's (1) a group decision, and not just Olly, and (2) it is "for the watch" as you say and not just to get Alliser in power or whatever, then I don't mind if Olly does the first/main/last stab.