hallam Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It occurs to me that all the evidence we have about Lyanna's whereabouts is postfacto. We know that Rhaegar was involved with Lyanna's disappearance because Ned found her at the tower of Joy. But how did word get out to Rickard and Brandon? Robert clearly believed that they had gone to demand the return of Lyanna. But that does not mean that is why they went. And why go to Aerys to demand her return when Rheagar wasn't there and was apparently opposed to Aerys in some fashion. I doubt we get the full reveal in the books till a dream of spring. And there is a very large chance that the show won't address these issues at all as they haven't been addressing the backstory very much. I think more likely Aerys got wind that Rheagar had a third child and that Lyanna was somehow involved and was torturing Rickard and Brandon to find out where it was. Of course, Jamie would be one of the few people who would know the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigUpHerBones Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Knowing Rhegs "kidnapped" her was not hard to piece together. Ned+ knowing they were at ToJ is something else, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Knowing Rhegs "kidnapped" her was not hard to piece together. Ned+ knowing they were at ToJ is something else, IMO. Hard to see how that explains Rickard's behavior. You don't go to the king to make demands without proof. Something is definitely missing from the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 When Rhaegar declared Lyanna his Queen of Love and Beauty, he made himself suspect #1. If a man from a family known for mental instability publicly declared that he wanted my sister, then I don't need to look far if I want to find out who kidnapped my sister later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Lyanna was high nobility and especially as a young woman would not have gone anywhere unaccompanied. Presumably Rhaegar took Lyanna and left her escort unmolested who promptly returned to Winterfell with the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenniferashley99 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Wasn't Benjen around? He was left in charge. Some believe that is the reason he took the black-guilt over how he handled that whole thing..by the way, where the heck is Benjen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthRemember Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ned learns Lyana be in Toj for Asara dayne.Ella message does that trust Ned.Cuando Asara he learns that his brother died of her call Ned commits suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Wait, "Robert, Rickard and Brandon"? Like, together? :oBrandon went to King's Landing on his own motion (and against Hoster Tully's advice). Rickard was summoned to the capital by Aerys, some time later. And Robert did nothing at all, until Aerys went full Mad King, murdered everybody and called for more heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 We don't know what Rickard did or didn't know or how he felt about it. We don't know what Robert's reaction was either. Brandon was the one who went screaming for Rhaegar's head. There's a theory that Littlefinger--ever the helpful chap--told Brandon that Rhaegar had taken Lyanna. It works pretty well, and imagine how annoyed Brandon would be to hear that from the guy who's after his betrothed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Hard to see how that explains Rickard's behavior. You don't go to the king to make demands without proof. Something is definitely missing from the story. Well, start with the basics we do have. They seem to be missing form your narrative? Wait, "Robert, Rickard and Brandon"? Like, together? :o Brandon went to King's Landing on his own motion (and against Hoster Tully's advice). Rickard was summoned to the capital by Aerys, some time later. And Robert did nothing at all, until Aerys went full Mad King, murdered everybody and called for more heads. This is what we know, so far. It isn't very much really.To be fair to Robert, he may not have had opportunity to do anything at all until it was too late anyway. He was in the Vale while these events played out hundreds of miles away and not directly enough connected to necessarily even be informed. What we don't know is what Brandon knew, how he knew, or even whether it was accurate or not. Heck, we don't even know what his actual motivation or intent was. Standing outside the gates to the Red Keep and yelling for Rhaegar to "come out and die" isn't exactly the best way to get a 'kidnapped' sister back... Neither do we know if Rickard knew anything or not. We don't know if Rhaegar or Lyanna had been in contact with Rickard even. Once Brandon commits public treason and is arrested, Lyanna becomes relatively moot to be honest. Rickard answers the summons over his son and heir's treason, Rickard demands a trial by combat, Aerys cheats the trial, then Aerys demands Ned and Robert's head. At that stage there is no real choice, its give up your head or rebel. Lyanna doesn't actually come into it and hasn't through the whole process since Brandon opened his mouth.Which is not to say that Robert (and Ned) aren;t actually also desperate to get her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I've always wondered if Littlefinger was somehow behind it. We really don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I've always wondered if Littlefinger was somehow behind it. We really don't know. It would make sense if LF wanted Brandon killed. A lucky guess? Even not knowing, saying anything would have Brandon hot. Like saying Rhaegar had been seen somewhere near Harrendal. Or simply, Lyanna had someone with her, and this someone escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Rhaegar insulted Elia, the Starks and the Baratheons during tToHH. Rhaegar was in Riverlands when Lyanna who was also in Riverlands disappeared. I think that everyone could ad 1+1 without having someone to tell them that 2 is the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Wasn't Benjen around? He was left in charge. Some believe that is the reason he took the black-guilt over how he handled that whole thing..by the way, where the heck is Benjen? This is a question I have as well. It is unknown why Benjen joined the Nights Watch after the Rebellion, but some have speculated that he was at least somewhat involved with Jon and the TOJ. Or at the very least, knows Jon's true parentage. Every Stark in this series has played a major role except for Benjen. I refuse to believe he means nothing to this story.....GRRM once said sometimes characters needed to remain in the shadows because they "know too much" and it would ruin the story. I think having Benjen going "missing" is GRRM's way to putting him aside for the time being (since he knows some big story revelations). Much like Howland Reed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePosterThatWasPromised Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Well Robert clearly found out when Aerys called for Brandon and Rick's heads. I definitely think Littlefinger tipped off Brandon. Still don't know how Ned found out about the tower... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePromiseThatWasAPrince Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Well Robert clearly found out when Aerys called for Brandon and Rick's heads. I definitely think Littlefinger tipped off Brandon. Still don't know how Ned found out about the tower... Ned found out through Ashara Dayne most likely. Rhaegar insulted Elia, the Starks and the Baratheons during tToHH. Rhaegar was in Riverlands when Lyanna who was also in Riverlands disappeared. I think that everyone could ad 1+1 without having someone to tell them that 2 is the right answer. By now we should all know that 1+1 doesn't always equal 2 in ASOIAF. I never paid much attention to the 'abduction' until recently, and this never made much sense. Littlefinger does seem a likely candidate, however after he fought with Brandon he seemingly disappeared. Besides, Brandon was on his way to Riverrun when he found out, and we don't know what he was told. I am under the impression that Brandon may have been arrested for some imagined treason, and the whole 'he demanded Rhaegar die' incident never happened, and was made up to preserve honor for the rebels. And, for real, where the hell is Benjen? I bet he factors into this somehow..................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow of the Morning Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The kidnap of a high born lady is a type of news that spreads quickly. In Game of Thrones when Catelyn captures Tyrion the news ran fast, the same probably occurred with Lyanna. Even with we don't knowing where and how it happens is certain tht some people witnessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddus Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Wasn't Benjen around? He was left in charge. The "kidnapping" happened near Harrenhal so I doubt that Benjen, who was supposed to be the Stark in Winterfell, had something to do with it. On how did everyone know, well, I don't think Lyanna could travel alone, she would have an escort with her, who would have spread the news. I also don't think Littlefinger had anything to do with it, hadn't Hoster already sent him back home at that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePromiseThatWasAPrince Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The "kidnapping" happened near Harrenhal so I doubt that Benjen, who was supposed to be the Stark in Winterfell, had something to do with it. On how did everyone know, well, I don't think Lyanna could travel alone, she would have an escort with her, who would have spread the news. I also don't think Littlefinger had anything to do with it, hadn't Hoster already sent him back home at that time? yes. That is why I don't think he did it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow of the Morning Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The "kidnapping" happened near Harrenhal so I doubt that Benjen, who was supposed to be the Stark in Winterfell, had something to do with it. On how did everyone know, well, I don't think Lyanna could travel alone, she would have an escort with her, who would have spread the news. I also don't think Littlefinger had anything to do with it, hadn't Hoster already sent him back home at that time? The most intriguing thing about the kidnap/flight is why the family Stark was scattered. Benjen was probably in Winterfell. Brandon was going to Riverrun to his wedding, his father too, but separated with other company. Lyanna was probably going to attend the her brother's wedding was scattered from her family and Ned was in the Vale, closer to Riverrun than his father, but not ssems that he was going to the wedding, while two noble men from the Vale was with Brandon. It remembers me of when Ned's speech to Arya about the fate of the "lonely wolf" and why is important to be close with the family. What was happening with the Stark family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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