Help with grad school writing

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Hi guys! I have the summer off, and I thought maybe some of you might have some reading suggestions for me since I know a lot of you have advanced degrees. I am still pulling my all As after my first year, but the feedback I typically get on my writing (and I am in an English program so there is much writing to come, especially if I go on to work on a PhD) is "you need to work on organization." This has been all of my life. The problem is professors won't help with it, they obviously (and maybe rightly) think this is something I should already know. I asked one who was particularly hard on me about this if she had recommendations on books or resources that might help me beyond the handouts she provided (those felt geared to short papers, and my organization goes nuts on the 20+ page stuff). She never got back, and if broached further seemed annoyed so whatever, I still received an A but I want to fix this. I plan to use the writing center a lot next semester, but this summer I thought I might do some reading on this subject.

I have read A Sense of Style by Stephen Pinker and it was great but he didn't go much into organization of writing papers. I get all these sources and have real loose thesis statements, I guess, and I need to nail down things in a more concise manner. Do any of you know of any books that tackle this kind of issue? A lot of the style books tend to attack writing itself, which I can handle through rigorous editing. But organization seems to be a whole other issue.

[maarsen]

I have never been able to organize my thoughts enough to write a paper without going off on strange tangents and sometimes I think that this was my greatest strength as really creative stuff would come out in my papers, along with the usual puns and bad jokes that I can never resist, and are meant to give the poor fool the task of reading 20 or 30 papers on the same subject a break from the endless repetition of the same dry facts and trying too hard to make it all sound original.

Short sentences help too, unless you are Shakespeare.

[Datepalm]

Dunno if I can help with English...what kind of papers are you writing? Is there an argument being made, and idea developed, etc? For my part, I usually figure out what I'm actually trying to say before I start, and if it's long, sketch out chapter headings and critical points, then write the thing. Sometimes it changes along the way and all that, but that way I still keep things structured. Then I go back and edit various sections to make sure they're actually germinal to the point of the paper, and located in the right place to build up to something coherent together. Voila, organized. Actual content, on the other hand...

I also can't resist bad jokes.

[sologdin]

place all jokes, good or bad, in footnotes, alongside any and all disparaging remarks about other professionals with whom one happens to disagree, citations to untranslated texts, snarky remarks about the parameters of the assignment, comments regarding the assigning professor's personal hygiene, general braggadoccio regarding the superiority of one's own theoretical preferences, quotations of unrelated but cool things from tolkien and dune, and mathematical principles tangential to the primary arguments deployed to show off that one knows something of mathematics.

all that remains should accordingly be the main argument, which should fall into ready organization by virtue of banishing the extraneous erudition to the paratext, which is the condition of possibility for the text proper, anyway, y'dig?

[Xray the Enforcer]

Simon -- it's hard for me to answer this without hearing what your professors are saying, exactly, and without understanding where your knowledge gap is. I mean, I can talk nonfiction narrative structure for hours, but I am not sure that's the kind of advice you need.

You might find some help here:

http://www.writersandeditors.com/narrative_nonfiction_57378.htm#bookmark1a

In particular, here's a friend of mine talking about how she struggled with structure while writing her first book:

http://www.theopennotebook.com/2011/11/22/rebecca-skloot-henrietta-lacks/

Also potentially of interest:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/14/structure

http://www.theopennotebook.com/2014/04/22/weaving-exposition-into-narrative/#more-6012

[Stan Man]

Hey!

I'm an undergrad studying English. I don't know of any books that specifically could help you with organization, but I would recommend practicing on your own over the summer. By this, I mean devise some essay topics (or find some online) related to your favorite books or topics, and then write papers on them. Nothing big, start out small with 2-3 page essays. You can grow in length if you're adventurous, but I'd suggest 4-5 pages as max (hopefully this is easy enough for an English grad student).

I remember, years ago, thinking that my writing was incredible - my teachers gave me As and I was confident in my work. Looked back on it the other day, and it's complete garbage compared to what I can do now. It all came from experience though, writing numerous essays per semester.

I think I've always been rather good at the "organizational" part though - I work logically through papers, generally outlining the paper beforehand.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

I have never been able to organize my thoughts enough to write a paper without going off on strange tangents and sometimes I think that this was my greatest strength as really creative stuff would come out in my papers, along with the usual puns and bad jokes that I can never resist, and are meant to give the poor fool the task of reading 20 or 30 papers on the same subject a break from the endless repetition of the same dry facts and trying too hard to make it all sound original.

Short sentences help too, unless you are Shakespeare.

I'm a short sentence guy when I edit. It's probably all those years in journalism. I think it helps quite a bit, but once this year I did write this ridiculously long sentence that was grammatically correct and refused to remove it. My student teacher wanted to read my paper as she had the same professor I was turning the paper in for, and she saw the sentence and couldn't take it, but we diagrammed it (I already had as well) and it was sound. Some grim part of me refused to remove it even though I understand grammatically correct does not equal correct.

Dunno if I can help with English...what kind of papers are you writing? Is there an argument being made, and idea developed, etc? For my part, I usually figure out what I'm actually trying to say before I start, and if it's long, sketch out chapter headings and critical points, then write the thing. Sometimes it changes along the way and all that, but that way I still keep things structured. Then I go back and edit various sections to make sure they're actually germinal to the point of the paper, and located in the right place to build up to something coherent together. Voila, organized. Actual content, on the other hand...

I also can't resist bad jokes.

The papers I struggle most with are research/literary analysis types of papers. English loves to hijack philosophers and use them as literary criticism tools. So we take Heidegger, Hegel, Nietzsche, and try not to comment on life but on how to apply their views to literature which is where I trip up. I can't do it. I take Marx, for example, and apply it to literature (which is now broadly defined as anything) like Lone Survivor and try to show how it is not an accurate portrayal of modern warfare realism though it claims it is but I get hit for stepping outside of the text and talking back and forth between myself and reader. Though stylistically I believe this is the easiest way to deal with abstractions on the level we work with.

In a different class I did an application of sociolinguistics to public education and developed a lesson showing how to use with the Common Core standards and that went much better. Maybe it is the abstraction I have trouble with.

place all jokes, good or bad, in footnotes, alongside any and all disparaging remarks about other professionals with whom one happens to disagree, citations to untranslated texts, snarky remarks about the parameters of the assignment, comments regarding the assigning professor's personal hygiene, general braggadoccio regarding the superiority of one's own theoretical preferences, quotations of unrelated but cool things from tolkien and dune, and mathematical principles tangential to the primary arguments deployed to show off that one knows something of mathematics.

all that remains should accordingly be the main argument, which should fall into ready organization by virtue of banishing the extraneous erudition to the paratext, which is the condition of possibility for the text proper, anyway, y'dig?

I dig. I used footnotes for the first time in my life this semester and found they were all jokes. And that went over well actually.

Simon -- it's hard for me to answer this without hearing what your professors are saying, exactly, and without understanding where your knowledge gap is. I mean, I can talk nonfiction narrative structure for hours, but I am not sure that's the kind of advice you need.

You might find some help here:

http://www.writersandeditors.com/narrative_nonfiction_57378.htm#bookmark1a

In particular, here's a friend of mine talking about how she struggled with structure while writing her first book:

http://www.theopennotebook.com/2011/11/22/rebecca-skloot-henrietta-lacks/

Also potentially of interest:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/14/structure

http://www.theopennotebook.com/2014/04/22/weaving-exposition-into-narrative/#more-6012

This gives me an idea. I'm working through the articles now, but the first one (the list of cited links) which links to non fiction narratives made something click. I'm a narrative writer, and I love storytelling (I've used storytelling in my 8th grade classroom for years, so I was sidetracked on the Science of Storytelling article from Lifehacker! haha) as it comes naturally. Maybe after I develop a thesis for these abstract ideas I need to look at it as a story I'm telling to my audience in a way--I think that's exactly what Stephen Pinker was trying to say in A Sense of Style. Thank you--you really made something click. I'm working through the other links too, they all look helpful.

Hey!

I'm an undergrad studying English. I don't know of any books that specifically could help you with organization, but I would recommend practicing on your own over the summer. By this, I mean devise some essay topics (or find some online) related to your favorite books or topics, and then write papers on them. Nothing big, start out small with 2-3 page essays. You can grow in length if you're adventurous, but I'd suggest 4-5 pages as max (hopefully this is easy enough for an English grad student).

I remember, years ago, thinking that my writing was incredible - my teachers gave me As and I was confident in my work. Looked back on it the other day, and it's complete garbage compared to what I can do now. It all came from experience though, writing numerous essays per semester.

I think I've always been rather good at the "organizational" part though - I work logically through papers, generally outlining the paper beforehand.

Thank you--I will always practice (narrative) writing. I hope to practice through reading this summer. I've researched through Google and found some books. I hope they'll help too. For some reason I ended up buying some books on String Theory--that seems dumb of me.

[Datepalm]

Simon - I don't know if it would be of any help, (different academic background, different language, etc) but I can take a look at, say, your Marx paper and see if any useful comment occurs to me. I've been going over a bunch of people's papers and theses lately anyway.

ETA hrumph messaging still isn't working. my email is tdatepalm at gmail

[Xray the Enforcer]

This gives me an idea. I'm working through the articles now, but the first one (the list of cited links) which links to non fiction narratives made something click. I'm a narrative writer, and I love storytelling (I've used storytelling in my 8th grade classroom for years, so I was sidetracked on the Science of Storytelling article from Lifehacker! haha) as it comes naturally. Maybe after I develop a thesis for these abstract ideas I need to look at it as a story I'm telling to my audience in a way--I think that's exactly what Stephen Pinker was trying to say in A Sense of Style. Thank you--you really made something click. I'm working through the other links too, they all look helpful.

I am really glad that this helped! Good luck! :cheers:

[DreamSongs]

Simon,

I learned organization from the pre-computer days in 1980 when I did my first paper. I gradually adapted it to include scholarly articles that I use and the internet.

1) I develop a general outline and then do some reading in journals. Broad notes are made.

2) A second, more detailed, outline is created. At this point, the majority of valuable resources have been identified.

3) My quirk is having hard copies of the articles so I can carry it around me, write notes on it, highlight all over it and write my sudden moments of inspiration on the back.

4) Take all of my organization and organize it as I sit down at the computer for a 24-72 hr marathon driven by caffeine.

The format I initially learned was APA, but most word programs will let you pick the styles that you want and allow you to type your resources in and will organize them for you. This is invaluable, since at least 1/4 of my marathon time is usually dedicated (or at least feels like it) to the resource page.

Good luck!

[LucindaMara]

Simon,

As with any craft you need the proper tools and practice. Here are some tools.

Say what you're going to say, say it, say what you said. In your thesis paragraph, get right to the point of your paper. Make your statement about the intent of the paper and then mention the supporting points you plan to make. (Like an attorney's opening statment in court.) When you have finished your first draft, you may see your message more clearly. (As one author commented, "How can I know what I think until I see what I've written?") At any point then, you can go back and improve that first paragraph.

When You read over the draft, may sure that you have indeed presented the points in such a way that they do support your thesis. Discard any phrases or sentences that do not directly communicate your message--no matter how in love you are with the clever metaphor or whatever. If you find yourself tripping over it, get it out. If you are very attached to it, right it down elsewhere and save it for later.

Parallel phrasing helps with cohesiveness and continuity. For instance, in the song "If I Were a Carpenter," there is a series of similar questions: "If I were a carpenter...," "If I worked my hands in wood...," "If I were a miller...." The similar phrasing draws the listener back to the point. You can use this device to form the topic sentences of your paragraphs or sections. The reader will be thus on notice that you are beginning discussion of a different idea, and also that it should follow in the same format as the previous one(s).

Make an extensive list of transition words and phrases. Once you get in the habit of using them, you won't need to refer to that list anymore. Good transitions lead the reader where you want to take them.

Vary sentence beginnings, length and composition. Short sentences have high impact among longer ones. "Jesus wept" is an oft-quoted example of this idea.

Your conclusion is like that attorney's closing. Reiterate your thesis and then reiterate the points that supported it.

Find your unique voice. Then writing will become immensely easier. Practice writing about things you care about. What works for you in that circumstance will probably work for you when writing assigned work.

Good Luck!

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Simon - I don't know if it would be of any help, (different academic background, different language, etc) but I can take a look at, say, your Marx paper and see if any useful comment occurs to me. I've been going over a bunch of people's papers and theses lately anyway.

ETA hrumph messaging still isn't working. my email is tdatepalm at gmail

I'm going to take you up on this, thank you! My thumb drive is at work, and I go back on Monday (summer school) so I will send it tomorrow if you don't mind. I appreciate it, this is a very kind offer!

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Simon,

I learned organization from the pre-computer days in 1980 when I did my first paper. I gradually adapted it to include scholarly articles that I use and the internet.

1) I develop a general outline and then do some reading in journals. Broad notes are made.

2) A second, more detailed, outline is created. At this point, the majority of valuable resources have been identified.

3) My quirk is having hard copies of the articles so I can carry it around me, write notes on it, highlight all over it and write my sudden moments of inspiration on the back.

4) Take all of my organization and organize it as I sit down at the computer for a 24-72 hr marathon driven by caffeine.

The format I initially learned was APA, but most word programs will let you pick the styles that you want and allow you to type your resources in and will organize them for you. This is invaluable, since at least 1/4 of my marathon time is usually dedicated (or at least feels like it) to the resource page.

Good luck!

This is good too, I have always avoided outlining for some reason. I love printing articles and writing all over them, I am still one of the few who does it. I write definitions of every single word I don't know on them, I write notes, I respond (especially if it is required reading I am not into at first). Sounds like being out of practice for the last 7 years (I've been teaching in public schools) has hurt my craft a bit and I need to keep on practicing. I've found this marathon time like you mention to be a lot of fun. There are times my walls and floor of my study area looks like a crime scene analysis where I'm trying to make crazy connections between things. But without the outlining that might be hurting me.

LuncindaMara, thank you for the advice. I need to keep on writing and practicing the academic style it looks like. I've purchased a line by line editing book so I hope that will work for me.

[LucindaMara]

Outlining is a crucial skill. My son and I have found that most of our organizing happens internally and then we write. So for us, just starting to write comes first. Then we move things around, realize our main points and then, perhaps, write an outline to keep on track.

If I were taking an essay test, where I should already know basically what needs to be said, I would jot an outline first so as not to forget anything under the time constraint.

Each writer's process is unique to that writer. So the outlining may work best for you at the beginning or, as with me, much farther along. I use many drafts and mark them up quite liberally. Some sections form easily and others stubbornly resist being molded into anything you'd be proud to share.

Find your process through practice. Learn what you need. You may like to work first thing in the morning or in the wee hours of the night. You may need isolation from all distractions or enjoy a bit of company nearby. You may work better in short periods or prefer extended periods without interruption.

Leave enough time to let the finished product lay before you return to it with refreshed eyes. Sometimes another person can point out something you never noticed yourself--be it a mistake or an important point.

I am very talkative in class, so I get instructor feedback there. But quieter students can benefit greatly by visiting the instructor to go over ideas.As a teacher, you know the satisfaction of helping a student gain confidence and skill.

[Datepalm]

I'm going to take you up on this, thank you! My thumb drive is at work, and I go back on Monday (summer school) so I will send it tomorrow if you don't mind. I appreciate it, this is a very kind offer!

:thumbsup: