Why did Lady have to die?

[WightWalker]

Ok so this drives me crazy...

There's so much symbolism surrounding the direwolves, for example when they're first discovered with the stag's antlers killing the mother and there being one wolf for every Stark child... so it just seems so jarringly wrong that Lady would have been killed, esp so early on. We know that GRRM always does things for a reason so it couldn't have been "just because."

Was it to set up Sansa's hatred for Cersei? Or to hint that Robb would later disinherit Sansa? Doesn't seem right - those are just to small to justify such a symbolic disruption, right?

Just subverting a trope? I think not. Why would GRRM continue to use the wolves with such heavy symbolism?

So, why is Lady dead? For what purpose?

pls help I'm so confused, I know it's fairly small question but it makes me crazy

[lancerman]

Well we won't know until the series ends. Could just be that Sansa dies at some point. Might just be something small like she betrayed House Stark to the Lannisters by telling Cersei that Eddard was planning on leaving.

[Blazfemur]

Lady dying is symbolic of Sansa's "properness," "noble," and "favored" attitude dying. All things that make her "entitled," and "better."

Like Theon becoming Reek, Sansa went through Joffrey's torment, becoming someone else almost entirely. It's only after Baelish takes her away that she begins her ascent again. But is she truly, I wonder. They consider her a "player" now in Baelish's tutilage, but is she really? Or is she just being used for her name. *shrugs*

Regardless, Lady dying was the "Lady" in Sansa dying. Thats at least the way I saw it.

[Blazfemur]

And that was *in* before diehards get here.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

It created dramatic tension. It made you sad, and then angry, and made you wish for justice. It illustrated just how shitty Cersei and Joffrey were. It illustrated Ned's relationship with Robert, and Robert's relationship with his wife. It illuminated Sansa character and set her up to later be the Stark child with the least ability to protect herself. It furthered the plot by separating, rather early, Sansa from her sister and showed her developing loyalty towards Joffrey and the Lannisters, so that when Sansa goes to rat out her Dad, it doesn't come as a surprise.

[The Mother of The Others]

Asking "why did Lady have to die?" is proof of why Lady had to die that way. (so that you'd get worked up about it enough to ask why Lady had to die). (which means the story is working).

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Because winter is coming.

The death of Lady foreshadows the death of Sansa's romantic notions about life and songs, and all of that. It's her first taste of the world's cruelty after a fairly sheltered existence. It also may free her up to skinchange into birds, which carries it's own dangers. And of course Robert did say she'd be happier with a "dog."

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

To make you sad

[chrisdaw]

Because the question of North or South, stoic Stark honour or Lannister avarice is the central question of her arc.

The question could have still occurred with separation, but Lady died because Sansa isn't going to go home, the North won't be her home by the end.

[H.P.]

We know that GRRM always does things for a reason

Do we?

Really, I've read all the books, and I didn't know that. What do you bas that on?

[oursisthefury69]

What even is this thread? Read the books and you'll know.

Your whole talk of trope subversion ect ect, its the story, if your trying to get into unneccessary symbolism im assuming your trying to start the Sansa isnt a stark discussion thats been occuring around here lately without actualy saying it for some reason

[Wouter]

Having a direwolf around, as captive in King's Landing, wasn't going to happen anyway. Later on, when she takes the identity of Alayne, the direwolf would have been a pointer. I guess Martin had practical reasons to kill Lady, she just didn't fit into Sansa's storyline.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Do we?

Really, I've read all the books, and I didn't know that. What do you bas that on?

He's well-known to hide hints in the text. That doesn't mean everything is a hint, but we all get antsy waiting for the next book and start overthinking sometimes. And it does seem to be rather a big deal that Sansa lost her wolf but lived. The only other Stark whose direwolf is dead is Robb and we all know what happened to him. Lady died first. It might mean nothing, but it might signify the very real danger Sansa was heading for. And she might spend some time wondering if telling the truth would have made a difference.

Also, don't remember if there is a correlation in the books but certainly in the show (I know, I know) Bran wakes up shortly after Lady's death. It might be considered an unintended sacrifice to save him.

[BitsOfBrains]

The direwolves are the symbol of the Starks.

Ladys death was the death of Sansas Starkdom thus her betrayal of the Starks for her new family the Lanisters.

Notice how Lady was the smallest and weakest wolf to begin with and as far as I can recall the only Stark to betray the family. Arya is currently separated from her Starkdom but its still raging and strong.

[Clegane'sPup]

Perhaps Lady's death was the authors way of showing that there are consequences to pay for lying and being selfish. It was sad, yes. It was sadder still when Eddard did the deed. It even sadder when Robert said to Eddard,

"I am sorry for your girl, Ned. About the wolf I mean. My son was lying, I'd stake my soul on it."

Arya's butcher boy died because Sansa did not back up Arya. And later Sansa telling Cersei about Eddard's plan to leave KL ends in Eddard's death, which in turn, turned into the death of Sansa's childlike innocence.

Harsh lesson.

Now with LF teaching her how to play the game, she may become one of the better players.

[Lord Ser Septon Maester]

"Seriously dude?"

-Mycah

[Clegane'sPup]

"Seriously dude?"

-Mycah

I'm not sure that you are speaking to me, but yes, Sansa could have gone to her father and spilled the beans about what happened after it happened. Or maybe she did, you have any reference to Sansa telling Eddard what transpired that day?

I am constantly reminded about parts of these novels that I have overlooked or forgotten.

[Grail King]

Because the question of North or South, stoic Stark honour or Lannister avarice is the central question of her arc.

The question could have still occurred with separation, but Lady died because Sansa isn't going to go home, the North won't be her home by the end.

Sansa will be going to WF, she may not stay because she may need to marry or stay married to Tyrion, thus sacrificing her wants for the return and stability of her house and realm.

The direwolves are the symbol of the Starks.

Ladys death was the death of Sansas Starkdom thus her betrayal of the Starks for her new family the Lanisters.

Notice how Lady was the smallest and weakest wolf to begin with and as far as I can recall the only Stark to betray the family. Arya is currently separated from her Starkdom but its still raging and strong.

No, it isn't and Ned betrayed himself when he told Cersei what he knew.

Perhaps Lady's death was the authors way of showing that there are consequences to pay for lying and being selfish. It was sad, yes. It was sadder still when Eddard did the deed. It even sadder when Robert said to Eddard,

Arya's butcher boy died because Sansa did not back up Arya. And later Sansa telling Cersei about Eddard's plan to leave KL ends in Eddard's death, which in turn, turned into the death of Sansa's childlike innocence.

Harsh lesson.

Now with LF teaching her how to play the game, she may become one of the better players.

She did back Arya, she told Ned exactly what Arya stated was true the night it happened, what went on between Ned and Sansa in the meeting we aren't privy to, but the following day when the King held the inquest Sansa played the middle not vouching for anyone, yet Ned did not ask her to repeat what she told him the prior evening.

Mycah was dead before the inquest, blame that on Arya, Cersei, Joffery and the Hound.

I only put Arya in there because if she did not act in haste it may have played out differently.

[Clegane'sPup]

Grail King, I am not blaming anything or anyone.

I said, "Perhaps Lady's death was the authors way of showing that there are consequences to pay for lying and being selfish. It was sad, yes. It was sadder still when Eddard did the deed. It even sadder when Robert said to Eddard:

"I am sorry for your girl, Ned. About the wolf I mean. My son was lying, I'd stake my soul on it."

She did back Arya, she told Ned exactly what Arya stated was true the night it happened, what went on between Ned and Sansa in the meeting we aren't privy to, but the following day when the King held the inquest Sansa played the middle not vouching for anyone, yet Ned did not ask her to repeat what she told him the prior evening.

I am constantly reminded about parts of these novels that I have overlooked or forgotten. Could you direct me to the page. Thanks.

Actually, if I must put blame on someone or something, in this instance it would be Robert.

[BitsOfBrains]

No, it isn't and Ned betrayed himself when he told Cersei what he knew.

She did back Arya, she told Ned exactly what Arya stated was true the night it happened, what went on between Ned and Sansa in the meeting we aren't privy to, but the following day when the King held the inquest Sansa played the middle not vouching for anyone, yet Ned did not ask her to repeat what she told him the prior evening.

Mycah was dead before the inquest, blame that on Arya, Cersei, Joffery and the Hound.

I only put Arya in there because if she did not act in haste it may have played out differently.

1. There is a chapter where Cersei herself confirms that Sansa sold out and betrayed her family and thats when she put her plan against them into action.

2. She didn't back Arya to Ned, she told Ned what happened. When she did have a chance to back Arya she lied and said she didn't remember. Independently corroborating someones story before they tell it and and backing their story are too different things. When she had a chance to tell the truth and back her family she instead lied to favor Joffrey, and her Starkness died right there.

I think the Micah comment was just a joke meant to point out how attached people get to fictional animals vs. fictional people. I remember watching "The Walking Dead" this season. Hella people dying, zombies chewing guts, children, women, all sorts of horrible stuff. The only times I was like, "Fuck that! They went too far!" was when they killed the piglets and the dogs.