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Edmure tully responsible for Robb Starks fate


person67

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If Edmure tully had not made his dumb decision to hold the red fork is it possible that something like this might have happened:



Robb runs Tywin around in circles and then gets back out of the same mountain pass he used to get in. Stannis takes Kings landing with heavy losses, tyrion is captured during the sortie (probably gets turned into a fool) while everyone else of any importance in the city is killed by Payne. Tywin decides to just sit tight in the west, Robb takes Moat Callin using his northern attack plan and the rest of the ironmen flee. Stannis attacks the riverlands but Robb beats him between Harrenheal and Maidenpool. The 7 kingdoms collapses with all the great houses going their own ways. and this might have all happened if Edmure had just done as he was told?


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Edmure wasn't told anything. Robb was away and had a plan, and he didn't tell Edmure or Catelyn anything about it. So, by that reasoning, it's Robb's own fault. Robb's highest commander: if he doesn't give his second in command intelligence on what he wants them to do, but instead lets them guess at it or operates under the asumption that the seconds in command will act so and so, then the mistake is on him.


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Robb has no idea about the Tyrells, his last minute plan (which doesnt really make sense) makes no mention of Mace and his 50k army that would easily expose of Stannis with or without Tywin. Mace has already marched his army to the Blackwater.



Say Edmure stays inside Riverrun. There is literally nothing stopping a raven being sent to Golden Tooth and a rider informing Tywin too turn his ass around to Kings Landing. If Edmure has been ordered to do nothing the Tywin can just freely march back the way he came.



As for Robbs plan. He is vastly outnumbered, with less cavalry than Tywin in enemy territory needing to both ride and live off the land while Tywin gives pursuit being able to get fresh supplies from his Westerland settlements.



Edmure may even have saved Robbs life by getting involved.

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Edmure did what the Lord of Rivverrun should have done which is protect his land and people from invaders, he successfully defeated Tywin Lannister and gets nothing but shat on for it. Rob should have informed Edmure exactly what he ment by hold RR, holding RR could have ment defend RR lands which he successfully did. Edmure is a honest man who isn't a great commander but an awsome Lord ....

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Edmure did what the Lord of Rivverrun should have done which is protect his land and people from invaders, he successfully defeated Tywin Lannister and gets nothing but shat on for it. Rob should have informed Edmure exactly what he ment by hold RR, holding RR could have ment defend RR lands which he successfully did. Edmure is a honest man who isn't a great commander but an awsome Lord ....

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If Edmure tully had not made his dumb decision to hold the red fork is it possible that something like this might have happened:

Robb runs Tywin around in circles and then gets back out of the same mountain pass he used to get in. Stannis takes Kings landing with heavy losses, tyrion is captured during the sortie (probably gets turned into a fool) while everyone else of any importance in the city is killed by Payne. Tywin decides to just sit tight in the west, Robb takes Moat Callin using his northern attack plan and the rest of the ironmen flee. Stannis attacks the riverlands but Robb beats him between Harrenheal and Maidenpool. The 7 kingdoms collapses with all the great houses going their own ways. and this might have all happened if Edmure had just done as he was told?

Edmure acted correctly. Robb screwed up and then he and Brynden tried to blame it on Edmure, and somehow succeeded.

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possibly but Robbs force was all horse while tywin had foot so robb would be able to outrun him since Tywin would be to cautious to abandon his foot. I think Robb should have told him but Edmure should have done as he was told. and the crag happened after the fords (I think) its possible robb would not have even met Jeyne if Tywin had continued his march. Mace might have wiped Stannis out true.


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I find this criticism silly every single time, Robb is clearly just trying to guilt Edmure into patching up the Frey alliance.

Robb is Edmure's king, not Stannis. Tywin Lannister has three times as many men, the support of the local populace and first hand knowledge of the region. Edmure is not going to sit there and think oh Robb's about to be crushed by a massively superior force, but if I let Tywin go West then Stannis captures King's Landing, shame about the defeat of my king but at least the Lannisters lost their throne. He's also not going to sit there and think if I let Tywin back into his homeland with his vastly superior force and local advantages well then Robb's just going to pull a strategy out of his arse where her runs him around the Westerlands then defeats him at a super special spot. If Robb actually wanted this and isn't just bullshitting then he should have communicated it to Edmure, the fault rests entirely on his shoulders.

No, Edmure like any reasonable commander is going to sit there and think I have the defensive advantage, I'm going to protect my lands and my King's rear by using the defensive advantage to halt or severely diminish the army of Tywin Lannister before he can get back West and likely defeat the king.

The Tyrells probably still defeat Stannis anyway. They're not so cautious that they won't attack 16,000 men in the rear whilst they assault a city when they themselves have 60,000 men. If anything with Tywin away or defeated they'd have more room to swing their dick around at court.

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he did not have the defensive advantage though his lands were being burnt and ruined by Tywin. I don't think Robb could have won but I think he could have escaped the Westerlands. Robb should have told Edmure and more fault was laid on Edmure shoulders than deserved but he was told what to do and ignored Robb. If Tywin had stayed in Harrenheal and considering no one knew Renly would die the assumption at the time would be KL was safe. Tywin would have won because the river lords would have dispersed and Robb would have to had move north to fight the ironmen. If Robb had not hit CR, tywin based on no surprising coincidences (no plans for the unexpected) would have won.


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Yep it was all Edmure's fault for not knowing Robb's reckless plan to trap himself in Tywin's own territory with Tywin's larger army. If that fool hadn't interfered the great wolf would of defeated Tywin with less than half his number, sacked CR, taken back MC with ease, dealt with the IB in time to rally his troops to head south and defeat Stannis or Joffrey before they can even set foot in the Riverlands.

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Yep it was all Edmure's fault for not knowing Robb's reckless plan to trap himself in Tywin's own territory with Tywin's larger army. If that fool hadn't interfered the great wolf would of defeated Tywin with less than half his number, sacked CR, taken back MC with ease, dealt with the IB in time to rally his troops to head south and defeat Stannis or Joffrey before they can even set foot in the Riverlands.

EXACTLY lol

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I don't think Robb planned to defeat Tywin merely to get him out of the riverlands. The red fork was an ok defensive position but Rivverun was better. Edmure should have been told but Robb did make it quite clear what he was to hold only Rivverun and anyway it was obvious Tywin was going to march back to the Westerlands and not go for Rivverun.


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Exactly how is Edmure to blame for Robb's fate? Robb's fate was cemented the minute he decided to marry Jeyne Westerling. Edmure had absolutely nothing to do with that.


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Seriously, Robb had time to send a message to Edmure telling him about the plan, or at the very least telling him not to engage Tywin. If such a message was intercepted, Tywin would just brush it off, as Edmure had already been defeated, and was outnumbered, and Robb didn't want him to get into another losing battle.



During this time, Robb had taken Ashford and the Crag, what's more, word had already been -sent- from the Crag about Robb's injury. There was no mention of this plan, no mention that Edmure shouldn't engage, and no reason not to. In fact, with Robb wounded, Edmure had even more incentive to keep Tywin from reaching the west.


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