TFP Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Many apologies if posted elsewhere. Speaking of grunt white walkers, how many do others think there were at Hardhome? There was the one taken out by JS and then you see another similarly attired one as Jon's boat is drifting away from the shore. But I personally didn't see any more, aside from the riders who were initially on the cliff. Were those guys say Craster's sons and the NK plus his lieutenants or whatever something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 That's all I saw too. I agree with the other posters and just add that it clearly threw the WW off his balance, the utter shock of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's your point? Jon has been training with a master at arms since he was a child. His entire life has been building towards being a warrior. Why wouldn't Jon be good at combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystickristoff Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Jon is good at combat. But he's not as skilled as Jorah or any of the top tiers in Westoros. Yet, he managed to beat a WW due to swordsmanship and a VS sword. This implication of this is that these WWs aren't very skilled in weaponry aside from having superhuman speed and strength. The reason they really get you is because your weapon shatters on impact, effectively disarming you. Point is, aside from having a special weapon breaking spear and superhuman strength and speed, the WW's swordsmanship skills are on par with that of the average young nobleman that trained with weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpati Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 White Walkers were not "in form" and the special sword was unexpected. I think they did it well. All the lords not coming together and giving their Valyrian swords will be the doom of Westros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Many apologies if posted elsewhere. Speaking of grunt white walkers, how many do others think there were at Hardhome? There was the one taken out by JS and then you see another similarly attired one as Jon's boat is drifting away from the shore. But I personally didn't see any more, aside from the riders who were initially on the cliff. Were those guys say Craster's sons and the NK plus his lieutenants or whatever something else? There were 2 when Jon's boat was drifting away, one stabbing a person and another one in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athmystikal Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 WW don't need their special weapons to break swords. They can do that with their bare hands. when Sam tried to hit the WW with his word, he caught the sword with his hands and the word broke up into pieces. So looks like normal weapons break on impact wih the WW skin. That would mean they never had to do any real fight - until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I take it as Jon having plot armor and that he needed to find some way to win that battle. Granted, it can be plausibly explained by the fact that the WW seemed overconfident in victory and underestimated Jon in those final moments, never expecting Jon's weapon could withstand his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion's Third Wife Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 WW don't need their special weapons to break swords. They can do that with their bare hands. when Sam tried to hit the WW with his word, he caught the sword with his hands and the word broke up into pieces. So looks like normal weapons break on impact wih the WW skin. That would mean they never had to do any real fight - until now. This is a very good point, because there is speculation that the weapon was magic. I prefer to think it was an ordinary weapon, and only shattered swords because of who was wielding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I think it's silly that a WW, being ancient magical creatures with knowledge of ancient magic, wouldn't (1) recognize a Valyrian steel sword and (2) know that they are vulnerable to it. In a sense, it seemed like the WW did know. Why would he bother parrying a weapon that couldn't harm him. But then we wouldn't get the look of surprise on his face that D&D were gunning for. The scene would have worked better if the WW was visibily concerned about Jon Snow, intimiating to the audience that something was up. Instead we got World War Z at the North Pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If you want to be particular about it, the WW should have impaled Jon the moment he had the advantage in the battle. Knocking him to the ground? What sense does that make. He would mercilessly cut him down as he did Loboda at the very first chance he got, and he had a handful. The series is setting up for Jon to be one of the great commanders in Westerosi history. He is a living legend in the making. I expect him to be one of the better swordfighters in the realm when it's all said and done. Likely, he will end up being a better leader and commander than he is a warrior, but I am not surprised for Jon to be winning in combat against skilled opponents. It fits with where the character is going, his lifelong training, and his overall experience IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow282 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I think it's silly that a WW, being ancient magical creatures with knowledge of ancient magic, wouldn't (1) recognize a Valyrian steel sword and (2) know that they are vulnerable to it. In a sense, it seemed like the WW did know. Why would he bother parrying a weapon that couldn't harm him. But then we wouldn't get the look of surprise on his face that D&D were gunning for. The scene would have worked better if the WW was visibily concerned about Jon Snow, intimiating to the audience that something was up. Instead we got World War Z at the North Pole. Ah, yes, because having any knowledge in a field means you would necessarily know everything about it. It's why every doctor can perform both heart and brain surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojji Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ah, yes, because having any knowledge in a field means you would necessarily know everything about it. It's why every doctor can perform both heart and brain surgery. No but every doctor, I hope, would know getting hit by truck will kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ah, yes, because having any knowledge in a field means you would necessarily know everything about it. It's why every doctor can perform both heart and brain surgery. What Valyrian steel is, and whether it can kill you, is more like knowing how to take blood pressure, to use your analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow282 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 No but every doctor, I hope, would know getting hit by truck will kill you. There's like 200 VS swords in the entire world. None of them north of the Wall. Where exactly would they have seen one to be able to instantly recognize them? Why would they be able to recognize on sight something none of them had ever seen before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I don't mind the walker's fighting skills. Most likely he was toying around, and Jon had plot armor, and the show-runners needed Kit involved in a good long fight. But, I couldn't help laughing at this scene: Jon is searching for dragonglass. The walker grabs his elbow, make Jon face-to-face with him, then start fighting. The WW could easily stab Jon on the back with that spear. Maybe the walker had a sense of honor, too.ETA: I loved the fight, but the reason I found it funny is I'm reminded of Sontarans from Doctor Who. They always face the enemy they are fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 There's like 200 VS swords in the entire world. None of them north of the Wall. Where exactly would they have seen one to be able to instantly recognize them? Why would they be able to recognize on sight something none of them had ever seen before? They were defeated by dragonsteel in the past. Did they just forget that little detail of their defeat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lou of House Reed Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Jon is just that much of a badass deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sam killed one for fuck's sake they're not like master ninja warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asher Forrester Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think the sheer surprise that Jon's sword defied the Walker's logic was it's downfall and not necessarily based on skill. It was expecting Longclaw to shatter like every other weapon it'd come across and the facial reaction showed that perfectly as the sound of their weapons clashing rang out. Taken aback by this Jon seized his opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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