The Fall of the Tyrells?

[BaelorTheBold]

Hello all,

I have been around the forums for a while and finally decided to start up a topic that I have been thinking about and have not seen yet.

It has to do with speculation on House Tyrell. If you think about it, every single one of the great houses has had casualties since the outset of the series except for House Tyrell (as far as I can remember). I was wondering if any of you had ideas as to what might happen to them. Do you think they will make it through the series unscathed? Or do you think they will have a few casualties as well? If so, tell me who you think it will be and how it will happen.

As many of us know

Loras was supposedly hurt sieging Dragonstone

so factor that in as you will.

I think it will be interesting to see how House Tyrell fares as the series draws to a close so let me know your opinions!

[Lord Lannister]

In the last two novels the Ironborn have been raiding their coastlines presumably on their way to Oldtown, so they're not completely casualty free, but yeah they've come out of things ahead of the game compared to the Lannisters, Starks and Baratheons.

[nastydream]

By the way,is there another Tyrell conspiracy thread except that one that started in 2006?

Hello all,

I have been around the forums for a while and finally decided to start up a topic that I have been thinking about and have not seen yet.

It has to do with speculation on House Tyrell. If you think about it, every single one of the great houses has had casualties since the outset of the series except for House Tyrell (as far as I can remember). I was wondering if any of you had ideas as to what might happen to them. Do you think they will make it through the series unscathed? Or do you think they will have a few casualties as well? If so, tell me who you think it will be and how it will happen.

As many of us know

Loras was supposedly hurt sieging Dragonstone

so factor that in as you will.

I think it will be interesting to see how House Tyrell fares as the series draws to a close so let me know your opinions!

Welcome to the forums!

Yeah I think House Tyrell is not gonna live much longer.

[Scorpion92]

Tyrells are doomed as well as Hightowers,Florents and Redwynes. I think Randyll Tarly will become new Lord Paramount of the Reach,appointed by fAegon,and capture Highgarden.

But when Dany is going to invade Westeros,Randyll and Dickon will die in the battle,while Sam will take his father's place as LP of the Reach and redirect Dany's focus towards the North and the White Walkers.

[BaelorTheBold]

Tyrells are doomed as well as Hightowers,Florents and Redwynes. I think Randyll Tarly will become new Lord Paramount of the Reach,appointed by fAegon,and capture Highgarden.

But when Dany is going to invade Westeros,Randyll and Dickon will die in the battle,while Sam will take his father's place as LP of the Reach and redirect Dany's focus towards the North and the White Walkers.

Interesting theory. But what about Sam being apart of the Nights Watch as well as becoming a Maester? He won't be able to hold any lands or titles. Unless of course he never finishes his Maester training (which I doubt he will have time to) and the Nights Watch becomes destroyed. After that I could see him gaining some prominence in the Reach.

[ThePromiseThatWasAPrince]

The rise of the Tyrell's sort of mirrors that of the rise of House Velaryion during the Dance of the Dragons. After that went down, they (House Velaryion) never really held any prominence after so maybe we should look at that.

If anything, the Tryell's will ruin themselves with their power grab.

[Balerion the kitten]

After everything that has happened I don't think their house will survive. Which upsets me because I like them, except mace.

Don't think their ending will come so suddenly because Tyrells won't go without a fight. And because winds will show us highgarden and if I'm right in saying this willas seems to be working with the dornish. So their role in the story will probably be more complex

[Scorpion92]

Interesting theory. But what about Sam being apart of the Nights Watch as well as becoming a Maester? He won't be able to hold any lands or titles. Unless of course he never finishes his Maester training (which I doubt he will have time to) and the Nights Watch becomes destroyed. After that I could see him gaining some prominence in the Reach.

This is exactly what I think. By the time Sam will be able to become Maester, Oldtown will be attacked by Euron and his ironborn,possibly with Rhaegal at his side.The CItadel will be destroyed as well as the news of destruction of Night's Watch and Wall (White Walkers will invade) will come south. But that does not mean Sam will abandon the destiny of fighting WWs.

Sam will be the one who will slay Euron with an arrow through his eye,hence Euron's nickname Crow's Eye (credit to Fire Eater). Jon Connington and probably Sam's dad Randyll will come to Oldtown's aid and make Hightowers join fAegon's cause. Sarella Sand (Alleras) will capture Rhaegal for fAegon and Arianne Martell having studied magic at the Citadel,maybe with Sam's help,therefore getting a dragon for "greens" like in original Dance of the Dragons.

This is where I think Sam will have multiple conversations with his dad,fAegon and Jon Connington about the North and White Walkers threat,but the greens would be preoccupied with Dany's invasion and trying to gather their strength for the upcoming dance of the dragons.

And after some further events,once Dany invades Westeros and destroys fAegon and his followers,including Sam's father Randyll and brother Dickon,in the battle,but Sam nonetheless will persuade Dany to look North and battle WWs,he will not hold grudge against her because he still considers himself a brother of the Watch and needs to do everything he can to stop their invasion. As the heir to Randyll Tarly, new Lord Paramount of the Reach,he will gather his forces and join Dany and Tyrion and march North. I even suspect Sam and Gendry will have a significant role in creating new Valyrian swords (Sam knows the dragon magic by that time and Gendry is rumored to have worked Valyrian blade before as a smith) for the southern armies.

And I think a big twist in the final battle with the White Walkers would be Jon and Sam are fighting on opposite sides,as I believe the opposite side will have Starks and White Walkers to be allied.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I expect House Tyrell to be saved to an extent by Willas, but their pretensions to greater power will be seriously checked. They may lose Highgarden.

Margaery and Loras will both die. Don't know about Garlan and his wife. Mace will die. Olenna will die.

Willas' best chance will be to side with the Targs (Dany has the dragons so if he can wait for her that would be a fair choice). And I'd like to see him offer marriage to Asha Greyjoy. Euron wouldn't care but the other Ironborn might think twice about messing with Asha's husband.

[James Arryn]

Interesting theory. But what about Sam being apart of the Nights Watch as well as becoming a Maester? He won't be able to hold any lands or titles. Unless of course he never finishes his Maester training (which I doubt he will have time to) and the Nights Watch becomes destroyed. After that I could see him gaining some prominence in the Reach.

Becoming a Maesters isn't nearly the big deal that the NW is, in terms of ruling you out of succession.

First, it takes years and years to become one, and until you do you're just a guy. And second, there are ex-Maesters walking around breathing fine. It's not the all or nothing lifetime commitment that the NW is. Aemon becoming a maester isn't what ensured he'd 'play no role', but rather becoming the Maester of the NW.

[John Suburbs]

Mace Tyrell has to cut a deal with JonCon in order to save his realm from the ironmen. He can't very well sit on his arse at Storms End while Highgarden burns.

And JonCon, of course, wants to unite the previous Targ loyalists -- namely the Tyrells and the Martells -- around the last remaining Targeryen.

So I can easily see JonCon giving up Storms End and then marching undercover into the Reach with Tyrell and Tarly to defeat the ironmen. Then they all march back to Kings Landing with Mace as the conquering hero, which puts JonCon and the GC within the city gates where they can then slaughter any Lannisters that happen to be around. This, of course, frees Margaery to marry Aegon, finally giving the Tyrells what they've wanted all along -- a blood tie to the Iron Throne.

The only thing that doesn't fit is Arianne. She is technically Aegon's cousin, and the original agreement was that she would marry Viserys, but Dorne will want something for its cooperation, and if it isn't Queen Arianne I don't know what it will be.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Becoming a Maesters isn't nearly the big deal that the NW is, in terms of ruling you out of succession.

First, it takes years and years to become one, and until you do you're just a guy. And second, there are ex-Maesters walking around breathing fine. It's not the all or nothing lifetime commitment that the NW is. Aemon becoming a maester isn't what ensured he'd 'play no role', but rather becoming the Maester of the NW.

And even then he was still offered the throne, so that doesn't always stop these things either.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Mace Tyrell has to cut a deal with JonCon in order to save his realm from the ironmen. He can't very well sit on his arse at Storms End while Highgarden burns.

And JonCon, of course, wants to unite the previous Targ loyalists -- namely the Tyrells and the Martells -- around the last remaining Targeryen.

So I can easily see JonCon giving up Storms End and then marching undercover into the Reach with Tyrell and Tarly to defeat the ironmen. Then they all march back to Kings Landing with Mace as the conquering hero, which puts JonCon and the GC within the city gates where they can then slaughter any Lannisters that happen to be around. This, of course, frees Margaery to marry Aegon, finally giving the Tyrells what they've wanted all along -- a blood tie to the Iron Throne.

The only thing that doesn't fit is Arianne. She is technically Aegon's cousin, and the original agreement was that she would marry Viserys, but Dorne will want something for its cooperation, and if it isn't Queen Arianne I don't know what it will be.

Mace doesn't have as much to offer, having changed sides twice already and married his daughter twice into the house of the Usurper and House Lannister too. He supported Renly over Joffrey, then Joffrey over anybody else. Switching again might be viewed with suspicion, and this time he may not have a daughter to offer. If Tarly splits with him, the Tyrell army may well abandon Lord Mace.

Independence?

[Lord Varys]

The Tyrells won't go down. They actually can't - not unless the whole Reach goes down with them. They are way too much intermarried and interconnected with both the Redwynes and the Hightowers - their two most powerful bannermen - and hold too much power in Oldtown as well, through Mace's three uncles.

Unlike other houses the Tyrells know how to reward good service - both within and without the family - and their general friendly approach with a good sense for realpolitik should stop their decline before it even begins. Will they make mistakes and suffer some casualties? Sure. But they will survive, and possibly even end up on top. After all, Willas Tyrell is still unmarried, is he not...?

[John Suburbs]

Mace doesn't have as much to offer, having changed sides twice already and married his daughter twice into the house of the Usurper and House Lannister too. He supported Renly over Joffrey, then Joffrey over anybody else. Switching again might be viewed with suspicion, and this time he may not have a daughter to offer. If Tarly splits with him, the Tyrell army may well abandon Lord Mace.

Independence?

Quite possible, but Tarly seems like a pretty loyal guy, and Mance is still Lord of Highgarden and Warden of the South and is still able to field the largest army. So JonCon has little hope of gaining the IT without Mace, and no hope at all if Mace opposes him.

On the downside, JC will have a helluva time trying to manage a fighting force consisting of Dorne and the Reach.

[Scorpion92]

The Tyrells won't go down. They actually can't - not unless the whole Reach goes down with them. They are way too much intermarried and interconnected with both the Redwynes and the Hightowers - their two most powerful bannermen - and hold too much power in Oldtown as well, through Mace's three uncles.

Unlike other houses the Tyrells know how to reward good service - both within and without the family - and their general friendly approach with a good sense for realpolitik should stop their decline before it even begins. Will they make mistakes and suffer some casualties? Sure. But they will survive, and possibly even end up on top. After all, Willas Tyrell is still unmarried, is he not...?

Which is exactly my point. They are too powerful now and basically main force that controls King's Landing,therefore,Westeros. And Aegon and Jon Connington will not forgive how Tyrells allied themselves with Lannisters,the family that murdered Aegon's sister and mother. That would be just a bad PR for Aegon in the eyes of people.

He needs to get rid of them as well as Lannisters. And Tyrells will not give this power willingly,I am sure. Something tells me Randyll Tarly will take a big role in the upcoming conflict (I know the show and the books are different animals,but they just cast Randyll for season 6,which means he is very important to the overall plot...But what do I know?).

And logically thinking,Tyrells' only way in the story is down spiral, they peaked and at height of their power,they need to be taken down. That's storytelling 101.

Basically,my main argument is...once Randyll Tarly and parts of the Reach go to fAegon's side, Tyrells are done. Randyll is known as one of the most fearsome generals in whole Westeros. Plus Randyll is a Targ loyalist,he is the only one who defeated Robert Baratheon in Ashford.

[Lord Varys]

The Tyrells aren't a royal house, though. Margaery is merely Tommen's queen, and that marriage isn't even consummated. Yes, they are sort of at the peak of their power now, controlling the government of the boy king. But they don't have to go down with him. They can abandon him - or some branches of the house can. Should Tommen die or Margaery be convicted/killed the alliance will be over, anyway.

Nothing suggests that Randyll Tarly is either a friend of the Golden Company nor a very convinced (former) Targaryen loyalists. Other Reach Lords are more likely to switch sides - Lord Titus Peake (married to Margot Lannister), Lord Mathis Rowan (who commands the skeleton army who continues the Tyrell siege of Storm's End since Mace returned to KL), and Lord and Lady Merryweather (who may already be working for Varys).

Tarly was completely on board with the Renly treason, and even went as far as to execute his own wife's kin (or their levies/men) at Bitterbridge following the Florent defection to Stannis. The man greatly profited from Mace's ambition and has no risen to the position of Master of Laws - why should he risk that, betray his liege, and proclaim for Aegon without need? And if Aegon is successful the Tyrells will realize that, too, and make preparations to join the winning side. They are not forced to go down with Tommen/Myrcella.

Considering that Mace/Margaery are in KL while Olenna/Willas are at Highgarden there is even a chance that Olenna and Willas may sort of turn against Mace/prepare to switch to Aegon without his knowledge or approval. If Mace and Margaery are doomed, Randyll Tarly may actually go down with them considering that he is the man hanging out with them. If a Tyrell army is really marching against Storm's End following its capture, Tarly will most certainly be among the leaders of the army - possibly even the only leader. And, who knows, perhaps he ends up under the foot of an elephant.

Come to think of it, lots of Reach Lords may actually keep out of the Aegon-Tommen/Myrcella trouble and fight the Ironborn. The Tyrells were smart enough to stay neutral during the First Dance - I doubt that they will do the same during the second, but Willas may stay out of the trouble in KL and save a lot of strength to either proclaim later for Aegon VI or Daenerys I.

[Viserys - The last dragon]

The rise of the Tyrell's sort of mirrors that of the rise of House Velaryion during the Dance of the Dragons. After that went down, they (House Velaryion) never really held any prominence after so maybe we should look at that.

If anything, the Tryell's will ruin themselves with their power grab.

how?

[TeethGrinder]

I think they'll align with Aegon if Marg is killed, maybe they will even if she isn't.

Then they'll be defeated by the Iron Fleet and the Dragon air support.

I think the DOD will by Aegon/Tyrell/Martell vs Dany/Greyjoy/Fucking Dragons. Tyrell's will lose but survive.

[Bael's Bastard]

I don't expect the Tyrells to go down with the Lannister ship. Maybe they will go down, but I think they have a pretty solid group to work with as far as the kids go, and I don't think Mace is as big an idiot as he appears.