Getright Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 With Roose having his own troops fighting one-another within his own ranks it seems hard to believe that his series of 'loyal' Houses will continue fighting for him, If they cannot fight alongside each other Roose will have an undisciplined army split into small sections with low moral whilst Stannis engages with a larger grouped force picking each small section off one by one. Let's face it, He has already lost the March on Winterfell. He has been forced to send 2000 Frey soldiers outside the safety of his walls and on top of that Frey soldiers know nothing but how to defend a castle. It seems they have very little offensive experience. Also, If some of the soldiers that are wavering to the idea of being on Rooses side visually spot the members of the same house fighting for Stannis (Such as Mors Umbers host spotting Hother Umbers Host) do you think Roose's men of these particular Houses are likely to be reunited, surely they wont engage in battle against each other brother on brother? Possibly the Ryswells will join Stannis so they can slaughter the Freys as they so seemingly have been itching to do. The Ryswells don't seem to have any family members held captive by the Boltons as prevention to mutiny. Roose does not seem as though he will last long, he can only trust his personal soldiers, a force of 4000 men, you cannot hold the entire North with 4000 men and he has no strong allies or potential allies for that matter. Roose may not be killed (yet) but I believe he will run into some sort of exile in the near future. Am I right on this or way off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I want to see House Bolton made extinct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Basically yes. It was always a long chance, and it relied on the mighty Lannisters being the shadow on the Wall to scare the Northmen into submission and the North lacking a focus point to rally around. The Lannisters aren't mighty anymore and between Stannis, Jon Snow and Rickon Stark the Northmen don't lack for focus points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getright Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Basically yes. It was always a long chance, and it relied on the mighty Lannisters being the shadow on the Wall to scare the Northmen into submission and the North lacking a focus point to rally around. The Lannisters aren't mighty anymore and between Stannis, Jon Snow and Rickon Stark the Northmen don't lack for focus points. The Lannisters do not seem to be as mighty as they were, not without Tywin Lannister. Kevan Lannister was Tywins only good seat at his command table, together they worked well, House Lannister is a lost cause without a couple of good tactical minds present. I don't think the Bolton's have been allied to the Lannisters since Tywin's death too, yet even if they did send an army to Roose's aid I'm sure the Neck would have something to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The Lannisters do not seem to be as mighty as they were, not without Tywin Lannister. Kevan Lannister was Tywins only good seat at his command table, together they worked well, House Lannister is a lost cause without a couple of good tactical minds present. I don't think the Bolton's have been allied to the Lannisters since Tywin's death too, yet even if they did send an army to Roose's aid I'm sure the Neck would have something to say about that. Roose didn't go for the North because he saw a good chance, he went for it because Ramsay fucked up big time by attacking the Starks themselves and winning that feud was the only possible way for House Bolton to survive. The Lannisters were just a useful means to that end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getright Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Roose didn't go for the North because he saw a good chance, he went for it because Ramsay fucked up big time by attacking the Starks themselves and winning that feud was the only possible way for House Bolton to survive. The Lannisters were just a useful means to that end. Might be a bit off topic here but what happened to the Stark soldiers in general? I'm sure house Stark had a 6000 man host, do none of these soldiers fight for anybody now? What happened to them? I know a fair number were killed at the wedding for sure. But what about the rest, I half expected there to be a Stark host within Stannis's army. You seem like the ASOIAF brain on this forum lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Might be a bit off topic here but what happened to the Stark soldiers in general? I'm sure house Stark had a 6000 man host, do none of these soldiers fight for anybody now? What happened to them? You seem like the ASOIAF brain on this forum lol.Some of them died green fork in the camps west and rw some are with stannis the survivors of Rodricks host some are in the riverlands with lady stone heart or just on their own some will be fighting for the boltons and some are sitting at wherever that call home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yes, for someone who seems to be more of a long term planner, Roose's part in the Red Wedding seems Ramsay-level short sighted. It's as if Roose and Walder decided they didn't want their houses to go on after them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanmaodao Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I want to see House Bolton made extinct If and when a "Rains of the Dreadfort" is composed, it will be my alarm clock and my ringtone. Roose didn't go for the North because he saw a good chance, he went for it because Ramsay fucked up big time by attacking the Starks themselves and winning that feud was the only possible way for House Bolton to survive. Ramsay's plot armor, in both the books and the show, really irks me. People say how "inevitable" the RW was, or how it depicts "harsh realism", because of Robb's folly, but marriage pacts have been broken before. What I don't know of is any minor noble in history forcing another minor noblewoman to eat her own fingers and hunting people with dogs and raping them and getting away with it. I really want Ramsay's inability to rein in his cruelty to unambiguously be the cause of the Boltons' downfall. Not that the Boltons "played the game well" but alas lost in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMartell Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Stannis will prevail!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 i don't know, man, no one will let me read the battle from Winds. they want you to think it's trending badly for everybody. it could be uplifting strategy win for Stan or woeful shit for all and the Others get winterfell. That's why I need to read ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Roose was done the moment the Northern Lords showed up without hostages. That told us everything we need to know. He thinks he can turn it around but he's fooling himself. Nobody likes or respects him, he misjudged his position and thought he could run the operation better than the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yes, for someone who seems to be more of a long term planner, Roose's part in the Red Wedding seems Ramsay-level short sighted. It's as if Roose and Walder decided they didn't want their houses to go on after them. Didn't Roose have a plan though? Didn't Roose plan on returning North, where he would get the IB out of Moat Cailin, Torrhen's Square and Deepwood Motte, then also deal with the Wildling invasion after the NW fell? Stannis threw a huge wrench into those plans. And, without a Stark to rally behind and winter coming, the North would be leaderless, tired, and Roose would have proved himself in the eyes of the Northmen by ridding them of the Ironborn and Wildling pests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plectrum Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Wait, he sent Frey soldiers? I thought he sent Manderly soldiers (who will of course defect to Stannis because screw Roose). Am I remembering that wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Wait, he sent Frey soldiers? I thought he sent Manderly soldiers (who will of course defect to Stannis because screw Roose). Am I remembering that wrong?He sent out the thousand or 2 thousand freys under ser hosteen renowned for strength and idiocy and the manderlys they're coming at stannis in 2 different groups what with the hatred of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plectrum Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 He sent out the thousand or 2 thousand freys under ser hosteen renowned for strength and idiocy and the manderlys they're coming at stannis in 2 different groups what with the hatred of each other. Bingo, thank you. I remember now--I keep thinking the Manderly host will push to arrive first so that they can warn Stannis and defect, while simultaneously getting the Freys killed. It's a near perfect setup for them. I'm like mid-first-reread right now (beginning of AFFC), and my recall of important stuff from the last two books is not what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yes he has, atleast most of them, everything is set up for him to be betrayed. Lady Dustin states how the Umbers are only at the wedding because the Greatjon is being held at the twins and we know for certain Manderly is only waiting for an excuse and Bear Island knows no king but the king in the north whose name is Stark, Deepwood mote was saved by Stannis and we know the Glovers are loyal to the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Bingo, thank you. I remember now--I keep thinking the Manderly host will push to arrive first so that they can warn Stannis and defect, while simultaneously getting the Freys killed. It's a near perfect setup for them. I'm like mid-first-reread right now (beginning of AFFC), and my recall of important stuff from the last two books is not what it was. Stannis is waiting to be attacked it would be far better to let the Frey's spring the trap and the Manderley's attack their rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Bingo, thank you. I remember now--I keep thinking the Manderly host will push to arrive first so that they can warn Stannis and defect, while simultaneously getting the Freys killed. It's a near perfect setup for them. I'm like mid-first-reread right now (beginning of AFFC), and my recall of important stuff from the last two books is not what it was.I'm thinking freys go first and end up in the lake Nevsky style while the manderlys advance on the likely confused and leaderless surviving freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plectrum Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm thinking freys go first and end up in the lake Nevsky style while the manderlys advance on the likely confused and leaderless surviving freys. I always assumed they were coming from different directions, to catch them in a pincer movement. Edit: as I said though, my recall of the last two books is not what it was, so I could easily be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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