Rant and Rave without Repercussion [Book Spoilers]

[UnViserion]

Oh god. I said this in my review for this episode but I want to bitch slap tyrstane and myrcella for being complete snobs. Hate them both. Hopefully his glass jaw would break.

You are aware that striking a prince warrants a "People's Elbow" from Areo Hotah when you're least expecting it, right?

[Perfidious Algernon]

I...might be done with the show after this season. Which hurts to say, because the show is what introduced me to the books in the first place, but it just isn't fun anymore. It feels like, at every point where the showrunners have opportunity for artistic license, they make the most sadistic product they can for shear shock value. This has been going on since season 3, but this season has been lousy with it.

What's most depressing isn't that we're seeing so many scenes like the Shireen one tonight. It's that we're seeing so many of them right at the time that D&D run out of material to adapt. It's like they read the books and decided that the brutality they don't shy away from when the story requires it was the real essence of the series, and that that was the most important thing to preserve in an adaptation. Not a rich setting, not compelling, consistent characters. Medieval torture porn.

[ToTheWolves]

And Stannis' men are starving on the march to Winterfell in the books. They even end up with cannibals. Never, though, did the thought cross his mind, "Well, better send a bird back to Castle Black and have the Red Witch roast my daughter. Could use a couple sunny days here."

this

Idk maybe that story we heard about stannis holding storms end with no food to the point of eating rats and horses was just a lie. Because the stannis we seen tonight didn't last a hour.

[Marcus Agrippa]

This has all been pretty traumatic for the week. I will boycott anything else with either of their names on it. Also, I thank George for say that. He is a good man for saying that much. He clearly wants to avoid writing for the show. I can't say that I don't blame him.

[GeorgeIAF]

This was at the instructions of GRRM, Shireen burning was a necesity because Stannis was gathering too many fans, unexpectedly, and when he will die, he/they didn't want a backlash like when Ned and Robb died. End of story.

[aliasocfan]

I'm still waiting for three things this season:

1. Balon Greyjoy to stop dodging the dude with the scythe :P

2. Someone to explain to me again how Jaime's trip to Dorne was superior to his storyline in the books. Why did we need a known character to introduce us to Dorne when nothing whatsoever happened there?

3. Brienne to actually do something besides staring at rocks. I don't personally think her arc in Feast was boring at all, but even for those of you thought it was, surely the fact that she's basically watching paint dry on the show is worse?

I have high hopes of at least achieving Mel's leech success rate and getting at least two out of three of my wishes :P

Since they deemed Lady Stoneheart unnecessary, Brienne and Jaime's stories really suffered. Though I am sure you already knew that.

[Nights Kings Queen]

Cas, why you had to remind me of that scene? Don't remind me...!

Books

Dany: I can't with this shit anymore. I am not this. I am a Dragon. I'm outta here!! I'm... Drogon! You're here! Take me! I'm a dragon! We're one! I can even feel your pain! I am the blood of the Dragon!!

Show:

Jorah: Khaleesi, I'm rescuing you from the evilness and the mess you create yourself for not reason than creatively making sense because someone wanted to happen! Take my hand despite is infected with something that might kill you in the next months because I love you!

Dany: Oh, Jorah! I'm so needed of guidance than I'm ok with leaving with you despite you betrayed me and sold me to the Usurper... I forgive you because you brought me my new Dwarf Saviour. Also, you represent everything D&D wanted to happen to them in their teenage years!!

:lmao: brilliant! Don't know why but them trying so hard with jorah makes me dislike him more than book jorah.

[DarkSansa]

Who was the editor who criticized the show for Barristan's death and Loras? Have they said anything?

[RGBeyondAsshai]

2. Someone to explain to me again how Jaime's trip to Dorne was superior to his storyline in the books. Why did we need a known character to introduce us to Dorne when nothing whatsoever happened there?

3. Brienne to actually do something besides staring at rocks. I don't personally think her arc in Feast was boring at all, but even for those of you thought it was, surely the fact that she's basically watching paint dry on the show is worse?

THIS. I can't stop wondering that. Jaime was having an amazing character arc from 1-4 and this year it's like he's an extra with no emotional growth at all. Why is he there? The only acknowledgment of his character's expanded awareness happened when his ship sailed next to Tarth. His face for a minute. The rest of the season he could have been played by anyone.

and Brienne...I said earlier, in one of the episodes she and Pod had a Dunk and Egg moment, but other than that? Paint drying.

[C.T. Phipps]

How many Harpies could conceivably be left?

Wouldn't this have killed the last?

[aliasocfan]

I...might be done with the show after this season. Which hurts to say, because the show is what introduced me to the books in the first place, but it just isn't fun anymore. It feels like, at every point where the showrunners have opportunity for artistic license, they make the most sadistic product they can for shear shock value. This has been going on since season 3, but this season has been lousy with it.

What's most depressing isn't that we're seeing so many scenes like the Shireen one tonight. It's that we're seeing so many of them right at the time that D&D run out of material to adapt. It's like they read the books and decided that the brutality they don't shy away from when the story requires it was the real essence of the series, and that that was the most important thing to preserve in an adaptation. Not a rich setting, not compelling, consistent characters. Medieval torture porn.

I'm in the same boat. The show introduced me to A Song of Ice and Fire. It feels odd turning against it, but with Shireen and Sansa this season.

I loved Season 1 so much that I read the books. The show would be much better if I never read the books.

[Takyon]

This was my least favorite episode of the series thus far. Let me do a rushed little break down...

Good:

- As always, most of the aesthetics were top-notch. Braavos and Drone were both exotic and colorful and I especially liked the sleazy, claustrophobic design of the brothel. I also liked the costume design and how the fighters in the pit were all noticeably different in both region and culture. The production team definitely earn their paycheck.

- God bless these actors. They seem to put their all into their parts, even when there's so little material to work with. Shireen's sacrifice was a moment of particularly convincing drama, regardless of how one actually feels about the premise of her death.

- They finally got the choreography right at Daznak's Pit, even if the editing was on the inelegant side.

- I liked Jorah throwing the spear at Dany's would-be killer. It was an insignificant but cool touch.

- The massacre was appropriately confusing. You could complain that we didn't have much sense of who they were targeting in the crowd (since it looked as if they were killing both nobles and peasant) but that was sort of the point.

- Hizdhar's death was a genuine surprise. I'll be interested in seeing how they pull off the rest of Meereen without him.

- Most people will probably dislike the idea of Dany retrieving her creature via telepathy (which is how I interpreted her closing eyes) but I say "Why the hell not?". They had to get the dragon there somehow and if they followed the books and had Drogon just show up to munch on some dead animals, it wouldn't really mesh with the scenerio.



Bad (and I mean really bad):

- Everything else. But more specifically...

- In a now locked thread, I was being a snarky defender of Shireen's sacrifice. However, after considering just how poorly the previous episodes have done in demonstrating Stannis' fanaticism, I'm definitely among the scene's critics. I commend D&D and GRRM for trying to break storytelling conventions but I somehow don't see the merit in falsely characterizing your main players. Presenting Stannis as a modestly caring father and logical thinker for the last several episodes only to toss that idea into the garbage is not a clever twist; it's a distracting and unsatisfying ruse that takes me out of the experience, reminding me that I'm not watching real people but some concoctions made for a primetime soap opera. GRRM approved of the sacrifice? Who cares. It still made no sense.

- So Davos had a strong suspicion that Shireen was to be killed and...well...took off anyways? Are we supposed to believe that one of the most straight-laced, forward thinking and honourable men in the series would just take-off without even attempting to convince his king to not kill his daughter and without attempt to protect Shireen? I'm not saying that his character's been ruined but he sure has been wasted.

- I guess that you can't let amnesic viewers forget that Olly will be offing Jon Snow. Ugh.

- Dorne. Motherfucking Dorne. What is being accomplished by dragging this shit out? Our interest has long been lost so please, for the love of God, let something happen. Let ANYTHING happen. They could have revealed any important plot point; Ellaria and Jaime could have decided on the Queenmaker plot; Doran could have revealed the Queenmaker plot, or any sort of plot for that matter. Any progression would have made our boredom somewhat worth it. Instead, nothing - NOTHING - happened. Remarkable. Was this subplot peer-reviewed at all? Did nobody have the guts to say "There's no value to this story"? Really, truly remarkable.

- Braavos isn't much better. If they used the minutes wasted in Dorne for Arya's scenes from "Hardhome" and conjoined them with the rest of her subplot here, you'd have a character arc that would appear to be much less stretched and thinned and much more rewarding. Even then, however, the Unsullied that I was watching this with were growing restless. I know that the source material is partly to blame for this but her story is starting to feel inconsequential and pointless.

- Daznak's Pit was introduced with no lead-up. They wasted no time to get the games started, making it possibly the most choppy transition in show history.

- What the fuck was Daario rambling about? God, there really should have been a proceeding scene where the characters could have conversed and put everything into perspective. Instead, the dialogue is condensed and added into this singular set-piece and the resulting noise was extremely clumsy and bizarrely paced.

- The CGI of the dragons has been piss-poor this season. Why is it that they looked so natural from seasons 2-4 and are now appearing so cartoony? If they're trying to go for a more expressive look then they are failing miserably because Sean Connery's monter from Dragonslayer was more believable than these looney tunes.
s
- Dany's take-off was cheesy and corny in the books and it's even cheesier and cornier in the show. Tyrion and gang's stare at the end was really a fine touch of haminess to top off a mostly dreadful episode.

I'll be watching this program until its bitter end but I fear that this amount boring dreck is only going to become more frequent. Hold me.

[Sub_Zero94]

how is it that the freed slaves didnt come streaming out of the crowd to build a human shield wall around their 'mhysa" ?

[R4W13Y]

I also love that a great military commander (which Stannis is widely considered) cannot properly defend his camp.

Not only can people get in. They can find food sources and horses without anybody noticing. (maybe they used google maps to get the layout of the camp)

Maybe Stannis and his troops deserved having their stores burned since no one noticed them come in or leave, and there was no one guarding or scouting.

One thing that bothered me was that in the beginning the tents at Stannis' camp seemed to spontaneously combust. How did that happen? Ramsey. OK, but how did he do it? He didn't torch them and ride off, they combusted before our eyes with no one near them!

Exactly. They didn't even have the sound of horses riding off. Did no one in the camp try and find them as soon as the tents went up in flames?? They can't possibly have gotten far.

It's kinda like D&D are Aerys at this point.

"The mad king was obsessed with it. He loved to watch people burn--the way their skin blackened, blistered, melted off their bones. He burned lords he didn't like; he burned Hands that disobeyed him; he burned anyone that was against him. Before long, half the country was against him."

Well, they do love turning people in the show into Aerys (see: Stannis, Dany...I'm sure more to come).

[SerMixalot]

The kindly man is not good at detecting lies it appears

[DarkRose_9]

This was at the instructions of GRRM, Shireen burning was a necesity because Stannis was gathering too many fans, unexpectedly, and when he will die, he/they didn't want a backlash like when Ned and Robb died. End of story.

Yeah, but you can't murder characterization like that and not expect backlash either. The fans aren't stupid. Even the unsullied.

[Follmann]

How many Harpies could conceivably be left?

Wouldn't this have killed the last?

I'm convinced that Show!Harpies are just like fucking HYDRA.

[Dark Heart]

BINGO!!! Hell, I'm so disgusted, I forgot about Balon, but I didn't burn my kid on the word of a 2 out of 3 sorceress either, LOL

Ugh, yes. Are they trying to make Stannis as stupid as possible?

Even if he thinks that lords will follow a king who is so devoid of love and any morlaity that he would burn his daughter alive; why would he think that Mel can deliver antyhing from the sacrifices? Shadow babies? Sure. He's seen them and knows their power. But this whole king blood crap? Even if he belives it, why didn't he and Mel grab Maester Aemon and take him with them just in case they need some sacrifes? Aemon was there on the wall with them. It's not like Jon sent him away to save him. So, if Stannis belives in power of king's blood (nevermind that the fact that the old kraken still lives should make him doubt it) why not burn a old man instead of his child?

I'm curious to see how it all plays out with multiple characters as well. But, here's a guess: it won't. Everything will go on just fine as before, except for maybe with Davos.

It's going to be a train wreck. They can't keep charachterisation consistant from one episode to the next. They also don't understand the most basic things about arcs and plot. So, yeah. I'm exspecting more butchery.

At this point Others (or hell, sombody who never appeared in the show befor) can kill them all and I would blink.

The 'she's going to burn in the books anyways' justification is ridiculous. If Robb had ordered Theon to take Winterfell and try to kill Bran and Rickon would that be okay, because you know, Theon did that in the books anways?

The thing that I find unforgivable is that killing Shireen this way was done for pure shock value, and the story contrivances necessary to make it happen did not in any way enrich the story. Add to the fact this re-enforces a troubling 'theme' in this season in how female characters are treated (and this is coming from someone who would balk at being called a feminist) and I feel like the show is indefensible.

They do everythign for shock value. Now they are on some sensless (if you are adapting a book series you should very well exspect that peopel will know things!) "we are tired of book readers knowing what will happen" kick. So, they are looking to "fix" things. And it's just absurdly terrible.

They even manged to destory Arya's plot.

It started befor (with unneeded name change and making her need to be told how to kill and with them sending her to do it with her own face. What was that hairdoo supposed to mask her?) but tonight they messed it up beyiond any redemtion. This Arya (that was supposedly triand, and even traind with pain, to contll herself and how to lie) was utterly unable to act. So, what was she doing in the HoBaW all this time?

[LadySoftheart]

Since they deemed Lady Stoneheart unnecessary, Brienne and Jaime's stories really suffered. Though I am sure you already knew that.

Even without Lady Stoneheart, Jaime's story could be about his learning how to be a "kingmaker" and use his wits instead of his swordhand to resolve conflicts (I mean, you wouldn't have to introduce new characters, even, just make use of ones we already know, like Edmure Tully, last seen two years ago :P) And even without Stoneheart, Brienne could have maybe done something besides stare at Winterfell for several episodes. But I guess what I never realized is that the true protagonist of the story is Ramsay Bolton because heaven forbid we take any time away from him :P

There was a lot of talk before the season that they were sending Jaime to Dorne because we needed some character we already knew to go there and introduce us to this new place and to Doran and the Sand Snakes (because I guess they are the only ones who matter) and ... it's such a flop of a storyline, and the whole point of Doran and the Sand Snakes seems to have been to film in the Alcazar and show Tyene's breasts to Bronn, so the entire time in Dorne has felt like the show completely spinning its wheels. So again, why was it necessary to bring Jaime there? (And now I guess he is going to miss Cersei's WoS simply because he's traveling slowly back from Dorne? What?)

[[Deleted]]

They should change all mottos, to be honest:

Baratheon: "Ours is the Fanfic"

Stark: "Ramsay is Coming (literally)"

Lannister: "Hear me Bore"

Targaryen: "Sci-Fi(re) and Dumb"

Tyrell: "Growing Strong (Yes, We Mean Loras' Dick. When He Bangs Dudes. Because He's Gay)"

(I don't even know what I'm doing)

How about Arryn: "High As Shit" (Which is what D&D were when they came up with some of these plotlines)