Hugo Drama IV - The Puppy Parade

[Wulfram]

Wulfram,

So, we should all just vote for who we're told to vote for? Very democratic.

What? No.

All I'm saying is that you're not obliged to go through a democratic process to decide who you're going to recommend voting for. GRRMs line about the Puppy slate being undemocratic is therefore silly.

[mormont]

(Like I said once before really horrible with names)

This whole S/R Puppies trying to get that one lady fired is really f'n pathetic and weak. Makes me sick.

The thing about that is their outrage at being dismissed as 'bots', in response to which VD encourages people to... cut and paste a set text he's provided for them into an email, with the subject line 'I'm a real person'. Yeah, that'll really show Tor how sincerely felt and genuine all these complaints are. :rolleyes:

What? No.

All I'm saying is that you're not obliged to go through a democratic process to decide who you're going to recommend voting for. GRRMs line about the Puppy slate being undemocratic is therefore silly.

Not in the context of Torgersen insisting that his process was 'never top-down' and 'grass roots from the start'.

[MinDonner]

I'm sort of embarrassed for Torgerson about how shite that CHORF thing is. I mean it's basically a backronym but for a made-up word, using a miscellaneous set of pejoratives that don't hang together well and are a right mouthful to explain. At least "SJW" is snappier and stands for a phrase that already existed.

Otoh, I have actually read some of the guy's writing so shouldn't be under any illusions about his creativity or wordsmithing. :dunno:

[Darth Richard II]

(Like I said once before really horrible with names)

This whole S/R Puppies trying to get that one lady fired is really f'n pathetic and weak. Makes me sick.

Yeah, kind of makes one want to build a space station the size of a small moon that is capable of destroying an entire planet.

[Seli]

What? No.

All I'm saying is that you're not obliged to go through a democratic process to decide who you're going to recommend voting for. GRRMs line about the Puppy slate being undemocratic is therefore silly.

I believe Torgersen claimed that the slate was put together in an open (slightly democratic) way, something which the available facts contradict. In that context that critique on the slates is valid.

[jagilki]

Yeah, kind of makes one want to build a space station the size of a small moon that is capable of destroying an entire planet.

Third time would be a charm?

[Lord of Rhinos]

Both Brad Torgersen's site and file770's comments are on fire today if anyone has 6-20 hours to waste.

Brad managed to look like an understudy in a panic gearing up for his big comeback responding to George's comments. File770 is moving so fast that I still only managed to get caught up to this morning's commentary.

VD has started a spam campaign to get Irene Gallo fired. JCW has picked up the charge, claiming that he has been told by three editors at Tor that they will no longer work with him.

You're misreading JCW's, rather tortured, sentence. Some of his fans (he claims) are saying they will no longer buy his books because of what several Tor editors have said.

[Darth Richard II]

...that makes zero sense.

Oh right

[Larry of the Lawn]

I wonder if Wright ever loses sleep because his initials are kind of close to SJW.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

We should all email JCW declaring that "We are bots".

[Kojiro]

You're misreading JCW's, rather tortured, sentence. Some of his fans (he claims) are saying they will no longer buy his books because of what several Tor editors have said.

I won't be buying his books because of what he has said. Honestly, I can't think much of a guy who loses his shit over a couple of cartoon lesbians.

[Darth Richard II]

Well, opinion here, but his books also suck.

[Kojiro]

Well, from what I read on that longtastic blog post by Eric Flint, they're apparently very boring.

[Lily Valley]

You're misreading JCW's, rather tortured, sentence. Some of his fans (he claims) are saying they will no longer buy his books because of what several Tor editors have said.

You are correct sir.

I have received more messages, publicly and privately, from fans who enjoy and buy my works but who, deeply offended at at least four, perhaps more, of the ranking officers of my publisher, have told me they can no longer buy my works.

I got lost in the tangle around here:

We promoted for your consideration, dear readers, works thought good because they were entertaining, well crafted and imaginative; not bad works thought useful because they served political correctness, starred or were written by some favored mascot or supported some cause of the Left, and had no science fiction in them at all. The only color we care about is the black of the ink and the green of the pay. The hue of the hand that wields the pen does not somehow magically make the story more well written.

For this we were libeled, slandered, and insulted in every possible way in every venue the enemy could reach, with a fervor and a blinding soul-destroying hatred even now impossible to credit.

Who in his right mind calls his own authors and readers, on whom his livelihood depends, neo-nazi racist psycho bigots on the ground that they prefer this year’s offering by Cixin Liu to that of John Chu?

er....Three Body Problem wasn't on either slate...

And Ancillary Justice was fkn brilliant.

I'm going to screen cap my earlier gaffe and send an immediate apology.

Edit: Three Body Problem is a fantastic read.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Lily,

I'm into part three of The Three-Body Problem.

It's still interesting but I have a hard time believeing that that many people could fall into "Rust Cohle" nihilism and want to see humanity end. Perhaps it is related to the experince many had during the Chinese "Cultural Revolution"?

[SilentRoamer]

I think everyone kicking puppies is outrageous... I mean, really, what does a puppy do to deserve being kicked....

I think George did a good job picking apart Torgensens limp response.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Author Steven Savile (one of Brad Torgersen's lecturers @WotF) exposes Brad's real motive :

https://twitter.com/avram/status/610920847566598144

Just as a data point - when Brad won Writers of the Future, I was one of his lecturers. I took him aside as I'd noticed him going toe-to-toe with Scalzi on his blog and basically said, you know, you might want to be careful because the internet never forgets. Thing is, I don't forget either, I remember his response. His entire aim was to position himself as the Anti-Scalzi because it hadn't hurt his mate Larry. He intended to Make Waves and Be Loud in the name of attracting the attention of the right wing money. So for me, from day one this has never been about the Hugos, he's not thick enough to believe you should be able to judge a book by its cover (that ridiculous opening Salvo about disappointment a book with a space ship on the cover how very dare it not be about... just a space ship and have, Oh I dunno, subtext)... it's always been about visibility. Making Baen happy they took on a loud mouth who's gotten himself disproportionately noticed. Evidence - when EW and Salon etc first ran with the story he was never named. What was his first action? Name himself in challenge to the journalists. He wanted his name associated with this.

[Lily Valley]

Lily,

I'm into part three of The Three-Body Problem.

Scot,

I hope you're liking it as much as I did. I think the middle dragged a bit, but I wondered if gamers would like the middle section more.

I found that nihilism to be completely plausible within the context of the cultural revolution. In addition, that good ol' American Optimism about human nature is completely missing from a lot of writers of more diverse backgrounds. Any Octavia Butler novel will give most readers a big slap in the face as to how slanted most sff is towards optimism.

It's also not the first time we've seen something like this in SFF. Think 12 Monkeys.

In the aftermath of the descriptions of complete madness that seemed to encompass the Revolution, I would think that "BURN IT ALL DOWN" might seem like a logical answer for humanity.

Edit: spoiler fix.

[Errant Bard]

I hope you're liking it as much as I did. I think the middle dragged a bit, but I wondered if gamers would like the middle section more.

I play video games, and I don't know if it is correlated with the fact that I liked the game chapters the most out of all the middle part (before they, you know, drop the game.)

I was thinking that it was more because the game sections were pure puzzle-solving and more in line than the rest of the novel with its mystery story nature.

I must admit I'm not awed by the last part. Everything goes too easy too fast, the big cop is always right, and there is not much emotion to be found compared to the start.

Still a nice read, and maybe a better ending than Goblin Emperor's saccharine sweet one.

ETA: While I'm at it, I've not finished it yet, but so far the Campbell candidate "The Deaths of Tao" feels stronger than any of the Hugo candidates.

[ChillyPolly]

This weekend I flapped over to a nearby tree, and asked my neighbor the following question as she passed below:

"If you are a member of a group that calls themselves the 'Sad Puppies', is it mean to refer to the opponents of your group as 'puppy-kickers'?".

(Note that the question as phrased was not quite fair to Mr. Torgersen, who does not use the phrase to refer to any and all Sad Puppy opponents, but only those he regards as particularly vicious).

She laughed, and said: "I'll say this much: it would take an awfully big man to resist the temptation."