Jubal Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hi there folks, first post here. I'm purely a show watcher and have avoided reading internet forums until now; however as I've heard that the show has either caught up with or overtaken the books in most respects, I feel that I'm now relatively safe from major spoilers. Reading through some of the threads here it would seem that most people think that Ellaria acted of her own accord poisoning Myrcella, going against the wishes of Doran Martell. I'm not so sure though... Perhaps Doran has realised that with everything that's happened in King's Landing recently (in other words, since Cersei has been calling the shots), it may not be a particularly good idea to marry his son and heir to an illegitimate child (of an incestuous relationship, no less) whose family are losing allies and support. Perhaps, seeing how his son was so hopelessly in love with her, he decided that killing her was the best option? On first watching I assumed that Ellaria had defied him, but when I watched again I thought that the nod Doran gave to Ellaria just before she kissed Myrcella was significant. It seemed to be a "do it now" kind of nod! So, what do you think? Am I reading too much into that nod? Is it likely that Doran ordered the poisoning? ...Or am I just being a bit of an idiot? :D (Don't be afraid to tell me if this is the case!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion's Third Wife Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I entertained that thought for a bit. But, I am not sure what the end game would be, especially risking Trystane. There is the wild idea Trystane is the handsome young man offered to Olenna by Littlefinger. Perhaps a Trystane/Margaery hookup? But how would that in anyway gain them the iron throne? No, it would be more likely that he would want to put Trystane with Dany. But that is a heck of a long shot. He's up to something, for sure, but I am not sure he'd consider this the right course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If all he wanted was to extract himself from the alliance with the Lannisters, he wouldn't need to kill her, just the break the betrothal. If he's not concerned about them taking umbrage at her death when it's obviously the fault of someone from Dorne, he wouldn't be concerned about their reaction to a broken betrothal either. Besides which, he was genuinely offended by Ellaria wanting to harm a young girl when she first suggested it, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellasLEAF Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Do not agree with this OP. For me, couldn't be more clear that Doran is a level headed, wise ruler and opposed action towards the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsdjesus Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If he had anything to do with it, Trystane wouldn't be anywhere near Jaime at the moment.Unless he is trying to use Trystane's presence as a proof of his innocence via reverse psychology (since no one guilty of that crime would be stupid enough to put his son in such a dangerous situation), but that would be a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If he had anything to do with it, Trystane wouldn't be anywhere near Jaime at the moment.Unless he is trying to use Trystane's presence as a proof of his innocence via reverse psychology (since no one guilty of that crime would be stupid enough to put his son in such a dangerous situation), but that would be a stretch.My thoughts are along the lines. We hear littlefinger saying 'sometimes we have to make moves that seem to work against us in the game of thrones'. I thought Doran could be doing that. In the books, he says he is the grass, and it is the grass that hides the viper. He looks like a kind, just and sensible person. But he is a Dornishman. And Dornishmen almost always win by trickery instead of face-to-face confrontations.The problem with the theory is that Trystane is his only son. Even for a talented player, this is a risky move. He did not even send any bodyguards with Trystane, if I recall. I half expected Areo Hotah to go with him. But no. Now Trystane will be all on his own in King's Landing, facing a livid Cersei, Lannister loyalists, and the Tyrells who have been the worst enemies of Martells for longer time than Lannisters. At least Trystane is a guy (unlike Sansa) trained in arms so it is unlikely that people will beat him up or rape him, but after what Ellaria did to Myrcella, Cersei can as easily arrange Trystane's death by accident. Whether it would lead to war or not, and whatever the outcome of the war be, Doran will lose his only child. Why would he do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Doran said to Ellaria in the Water Gardens that there would be no killing of innocent girls while he ruled Dorne. If what he meant was "I want you to wait a while and then kill her in a more subtle way when I give the order", he could have told her so right then and there and Ellaria would have gladly agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I've entertained the thought. Would make for an interesting future reveal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr's Little Finger Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 There is a possibility that it was Doran behind it all, but it is unlikely IMO. Trystane is now with the Lannisters, I don't think Doran will risk his heir. I think it was Ellaria acting on her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendry_Goldeneyes Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 wait so trystane is still going to kings landing even though mrycella was murdered? how does this even make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Long Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I do not agree with the OP, why would he put his heir in that position, makes no sense whatsoever, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Nan Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Absolutely not. Doran is known for being fair and level-headed, and he made his position clear to Ellaria. The books elaborate on this point a lot as well. What she did was not only disloyal to Doran, but will also probably screw up his long-term strategy of pretending to be on the Lannisters' side while playing his own game. Don't want to give you spoilers but suffice it to say that if he was in on it, it would be a drastic departure from his book storyline as well as his characterization in both the books and show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Jamie has Trystane, Prince Doran's son, and IIRC, his heir. No way Doran would make his son a hostage/target. No way in Seven Hells is Doran in on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Well its Dorans boat with his men on it, Jaimie isn't a fighter anymore with one hand, so I don't see how Trystane is at risk, unless the boat actually goes to Kings Landing. Now if the boat is actually going to Mereen and Dany, with Jaimie as a gift for the rightful Queen with a marriage offer from Trystane, that would make sense if you think Doran approved the hit on Myrcella. Bronn might have been bought off by the Martells, therefore Jaimie is really a prisoner with no help in sight. I suppose that Kevan might have gotten a raven from Jaimie announcing the arrangement that was made with Doran but Doran can always say the boat was lost in a storm and TYene and Nym might be sent to KIngs Landing to stall and cause problems just like they were in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Nobles Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Trystane was a hostage from the minute Doran let him get on the boat. Sure, he's to sit on the Small Council, supposedly, but... Hang on. Now I've got a crackpot theory of my own. What if Trystane is going to take up Aurane Waters' part? But instead of becoming a pirate, he delivers the ships to Meereen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Ooh I like the idea of the ship going to Mereen instead of KL.Had Doran said "Fire and Blood", I'd be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 There is a possibility that it was Doran behind it all, but it is unlikely IMO. Trystane is now with the Lannisters, I don't think Doran will risk his heir. I think it was Ellaria acting on her own. As it stands, Ellaria has become the shows substitute for Darkstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeFremen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Interesting idea. First of all will the ship return to Dorne (it was like just departed, they could have returned in 5 minutes). Probably not, because reasons (despite being the logical course of action). Doran said that they will never hurt little girls while he rules -> maybe he lied, but that would be soooooo cheap...Doran might have suspected and let the plan carry out -> I don't think he's that kind of a plotter. How will this lead to war ? (I'm assuming this is what Ellaria wanted) Why would the Lannisters keep Trystane hostage ? When you have a hostage you make demands. What could they possibly ask for ? How can the show even handle another war, when the Lannisters are almost wiped out and Dorne has like... population 20 (the show never even showed a market or a street in order for us to see population). From a show point of view what was the whole point of this dornish expedition ? Introduce Dorne artificially... and no story is good unless they kill someone just for shock. They might make Doran aware of this poisoning, but I believe this just because D&D don't care about the story to be consistent (and tying up loose ends illogically is their preferred practice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayarts Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 IMO Jaime doesn't "have" Trystane now. Its a whole ship full of Dornishmen - its certain that there has to be more people on board so it can actually sail.So the whole crew who know their prince in on board versus Jaime (onehanded) and Bronn? It would be logical for the ship to turn no matter what Jaime does/says.And yeah, I don't think Doran knew. I don't want to believe he is the kind to kill an innocent girl, just like he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 He nods to "Elllaria" before the kiss. Considering Olly's nodding, it may be a sign he was aware. Well its Dorans boat with his men on it, Jaimie isn't a fighter anymore with one hand, so I don't see how Trystane is at risk, unless the boat actually goes to Kings Landing. Now if the boat is actually going to Mereen and Dany, with Jaimie as a gift for the rightful Queen with a marriage offer from Trystane, that would make sense if you think Doran approved the hit on Myrcella. Bronn might have been bought off by the Martells, therefore Jaimie is really a prisoner with no help in sight. I suppose that Kevan might have gotten a raven from Jaimie announcing the arrangement that was made with Doran but Doran can always say the boat was lost in a storm and TYene and Nym might be sent to KIngs Landing to stall and cause problems just like they were in the books. Would be great. But I don't believe it will happen, considering what was said in some interviews about Cersei's reaction they seem to be going to KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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