Has the show lost it's heart?

[xjlxking]

The point is that ratings, piracy, and professional critics on their own can't be used as an argument for show quality.

Single episodes peaked this season (i.e., Episodes 1 and 10), but that obscures that this season took a nose dive. Episode 7 of this season ranked lower than episode 6, lower than episode 6 of last season, and lower than episode 6 of the season before that. On average, Season 5 was no different that Season 4 in terms of ratings despite a couple episodes doing well.

The average viewers is higher this season than last season

The rating by critics and viewers is nearly the same

And the amount of people who pirated it is higher once more

I'm not sure why you are trying so hard do discredit each of these things individually. Transformers has a lot of people who watched it but it still sucks? Yes that's true but how do we know transformers sucks? Um rating and critics both said it! Duh

Critics are bought? Um yes, so the standard is even evrywhere. Viewers are stupid? does that include us?

Quite honestly the stats speak for themselves

[Borodin]

The average viewers is higher this season than last season

The rating by critics and viewers is nearly the same

And the amount of people who pirated it is higher once more

I'm not sure why you are trying so hard do discredit each of these things individually. Transformers has a lot of people who watched it but it still sucks? Yes that's true but how do we know transformers sucks? Um rating and critics both said it! Duh

Critics are bought? Um yes, so the standard is even evrywhere. Viewers are stupid? does that include us?

Quite honestly the stats speak for themselves

Dude. Season 3 had an average of 4.97 million viewers per episode, up from only 3.8 million the previous season. Big jump! Season 4 had 6.85 million viewers. Guess how many Season 5 had? Answer: 6.88. That's what we in the biz call a plateau.

And yes, Transformers sucked despite being one of the most pirated shows ever made.

[xjlxking]

Dude. Season 3 had an average of 4.97 million viewers per episode, up from only 3.8 million the previous season. Big jump! Season 4 had 6.85 million viewers. Guess how many Season 5 had? Answer: 6.88. That's what we in the biz call a plateau.

And yes, Transformers sucked despite being one of the most pirated shows ever made.

Ugh I think you are completely forgetting factors like season 5 episodes got leaked and pirating is higher this season. Regardless, it's called an increase.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Dude. Season 3 had an average of 4.97 million viewers per episode, up from only 3.8 million the previous season. Big jump! Season 4 had 6.85 million viewers. Guess how many Season 5 had? Answer: 6.88. That's what we in the biz call a plateau.

And yes, Transformers sucked despite being one of the most pirated shows ever made.

Yes and it is also a sign of a mature show. The show ratings did not drop off dramatically and in the end still finish higher than all the other years. It kept the audience and that is a success.

[Borodin]

Yes and it is also a sign of a mature show. The show ratings did not drop off dramatically and in the end still finish higher than all the other years. It kept the audience and that is a success.

The show gets a few more viewers than the Bachelorette. Let's not over state the case.

[xjlxking]

The show gets a few more viewers than the Bachelorette. Let's not over state the case.

Ahahaha

Omg

And now we get to the next straw man argument

How do you watch bachelorette? On cable that you what pay a small fee of ~$70 for over 150 channel? How do you watch GOT? Either pirate it or pay premium of $20 for 7 channels. Different avenues of availability

But please continue

I'm assuming that you also use this argument when saying that shows like breaking bad, dexter, sopranos..etc are bad? And ONCE MORE you completely disregard viewer rating and critics reviews

[Theon'sSong]

and she will take control in winterfell eventually, littlefingers game is for her to eventually return to the north. The fact she hardens and matures in winterfell under the threat of Ramsay is a more coherent story. The character of Jeyne is completely superfluous and only serve for Theon's redemption. Combining Theon and Sansa's arc is just more elegant, no reason to introduce characters or places for plot devices when existing major characters can perform the task. This is something that eludes GRRM's meandering indulgent writing.

Really? Recall that at the end of last season, Sansa was starting to take control? That was an important part of her characer arc - to go from victim under Joffery and Lysa toward an actual players. Littlefinger kept her in the Vale because he loved her and because she is the key to the North in terms of name.

Sansa in Winterfell obliterates both these characterizations. Sansa goes back to being a victim, which is a complete reversal of her arc. Terrible writing. Littlefinger places Sansa, his love and the key to the north, in mortal danger by marrying her off to a murderous psychopath: Ramsay.

The characters cease to make any sense. It's nonsense.

[xjlxking]

Combining it is not elegant but it is saving a lot of time and money

[Borodin]

and she will take control in winterfell eventually, littlefingers game is for her to eventually return to the north. The fact she hardens and matures in winterfell under the threat of Ramsay is a more coherent story.

No, it's a different story - one that reverses the shift she began last season and which, in the books, she continues in the Vale as part of her arc. It is patently not more coherent to reverse her arc by making her "mature and harden" through raping and abuse by Ramsay. We already saw that part of her arc under Joffrey and Lysa.

And what's with this speculation that she will take control of Winterfell? Is that a fan theory?

[Ojji]

The show has become worse by each season. The writing has become bad. They pay less attention to the details. D&D seem to have no idea what they want to do with some of the characters.

It's the same thing that has been happening for so long. Sons of Anarchy and Dexter for example. Great first seasons, awful later on.

[dayumark]

Of course not!

https://youtu.be/ik7yNvqrGvw

[Desert Fox]

The show can't be a faithful adaptation anymore, there is no more source material. TWOW would have to be in at least a rough draft form right a couple months ago when they started on S6 scripts.

We are in for a 2-3 season wild ride of "that's not what GRRM would do."

[Borodin]

The show can't be a faithful adaptation anymore, there is no more source material. TWOW would have to be in at least a rough draft form right a couple months ago when they started on S6 scripts.

We are in for a 2-3 season wild ride of "that's not what GRRM would do."

Yes, in fact it's the responsibility of the screenwriter to assess whether the source material will be complete by the time the adaptation is necessary. A good screenwriter will wait. A hack, on the other hand, will dive in not caring if the result is a mess.

[xjlxking]

Yes, in fact it's the responsibility of the screenwriter to asess whether the source material will be complete by the time the adaptation is necessary. A good screenwriter will wait. A hack, on the other hand, will dive in not caring if the result is a mess.

a good screen writer will get information before the general audience

[Borodin]

a good screen writer will get information before the general audience

That makes no sense. Every adaptation of a Stephen King novel has been after the books were published. We didn't need the screenwriter to get the manuscript prior to that in order to produce a good adaptation.

[xjlxking]

That makes no sense. Every adaptation of Stephen King's work has been after the books were published. We didn't need the screenwriter to get the manuscript prior to that in order to produce a good product.

or you can get the author to guide you first hand, you know exactly what GRRM has done from season 1-4.

[Desert Fox]

Yes, in fact it's the responsibility of the screenwriter to asess whether the source material will be complete by the time the adaptation is necessary. A good screenwriter will wait. A hack, on the other hand, will dive in not caring if the result is a mess.

A good screen writer doesn't necessarily stay "faithful" to the source. Often it is just a starting point.

D&D's problem is that they stayed true to the books for the most part, until S5. And even then when they deviated, they tried to swap storylines instead of just making up a more logical story. That's why they made Sansa take of Pooles story. To be "faithful" to the story, when it just makes no sense. Sansa wouldn't agree to any of this. And now they are totally fucked because there is no more prewritten story for them.

[Borodin]

A good screen writer doesn't necessarily stay "faithful" to the source. Often it is just a starting point.

D&D's problem is that they stayed true to the books for the most part, until S5. And even then when they deviated, they tried to swap storylines instead of just making up a more logical story. That's why they made Sansa take of Pooles story.

Sooo, had they remained faithful they would of had a logical story. That's my point.

[Arkekansler]

I don’t think what does and does not end up on screen is the biggest problem. I can understand having only so much budget and screen time. The problem is the writers deciding that whatever doesn’t appear on screen doesn’t exist. The first season was the most focused one. It had the least characters and locations and the smallest budget but you got the impression that it was all taking place in a larger world with more going on then what we saw. Ever since then it seems like the writers are actively trying to ruin that, since.

• Willas and Garlan doesn’t exist
  
• Jamie struggle to recall any of his cousins except Lancell
  
• Cersie claiming the Tyrells are the second most wealthy family
  
• Lord Karstark somehow controlling half the armies of the North
  
• No one ever mentioning any families unless we know a person from that family
  

All those problems exists solely because of things written on paper. Instead have it say.

• Sansa is to marry older brother Tyrell (he´s in High garden)
  
• Jamie rattles of a list of names (Daven, Cerrena, Janei)
  
• Robb receives news about the Greatjon losing a battle and being taken captured (hinting that there’s war going on of screen, adding to Robbs desperation and explaining where the Greatjon went)
  
• Mention the Manderlys, the Crakehalls, the Hightowers.
  

So simple and suddenly the world seems ten times deeper and more like a real place.

[Desert Fox]

Sooo, had they remained faithful they would of had a logical story. That's my point.

D&D's problem is that AFFC/ADWD starts off a bunch of new story lines that aren't finished. All the new characters are in the first act of their story. It's like giving them AGOT and then asking them to write ACOK and ASOS. It wouldn't be nearly as good.

The really just need to make the HBO show their baby, their story, and go ahead. The problem with S5 was they tried to do both. To change it as faithfully as possible. But they can't do that, and certainly didn't do it well.