Jaime L Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 One can hope. It sure seems like they've got a shot. They have all the pieces in place. Great ownership, great front office, an adept coaching staff, and young players.Only time will tell, but things are looking up for basketball in the Bay. Yep, all true, and I think Steve Kerr might just be brilliant. As a player he won 5 titles under 2 of the greatest coaches ever, one a master motivator/star whisperer (Phil Jackson), the other a master tactician/team builder (Popp). He was a front office guy. He was a media guy. Felt like he absorbed every kind of best practice out there. He seems to understand the job from every angle in terms of relating to the front office, to the media, to his stars, to his role guys. He's so good he probably even knows which end of the dry erase board is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Post-Finals I am still left with a "what if" feeling. What if the Cavs had been healty? The Cavs would have won, is what I would have said in advance, and I stick by that having seen this series. What if Golden State had had to face fit teams? Yes they were the best regular season team but it's a different story in the playoffs, most recent evidence Atlanta. They had a very easy first round against the Pelicans who wouldn't have been in there if not for OKC's injuries. Then face Memphis without Conley. Are then very lucky that the Clippers manage to eliminate the Spurs, and are then lucky again when the Clippers screw up a huge lead against a beaten Rockets team. That same worn down Rockets team then has to play a relatively fresh Golden State team and the obvious stuff happens. And then on top of that the Cavs lose Love and Irving. I mean come on. i know that sounds more disparaging of the Warriors than they deserve. They've had a fantastic year. But I do feel that some of the praise in the ( this has been 1 of the 10 best teams ever!) narrative is not right.We know it would have been very close against the Clippers or the Spurs, and they missed them both and got a depleted Cavs team.Yes you can only play your schedule and beat the teams you meet. But it does take a lot of the shine off it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Cal, I totally agree. I don't think the Wars were truly tested on their way to the title, outside of games 2 and 3. I blame Chris Paul for that, as his super lucky shot eliminated the Spurs (who i think would have taken the Wars out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proudfeet Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Meh, if they played the Spurs your narrative could be that they were too old. If they played the Clippers, you could have said they always choke. If they played healthy Cavaliers, you could say that Irving and Love need to play better defence. Of course any of the possibilities could have upset them instead, but that line of reasoning is just pointless. The fact is that they had the luck and they made the best of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Meh, if they played the Spurs your narrative could be that they were too old. Nope. Personally ive been harping on the Wars lack of getting put through a grinder for a few months now. And i don't think the Spurs are too old =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Cal, I totally agree. I don't think the Wars were truly tested on their way to the title, outside of games 2 and 3. I blame Chris Paul for that, as his super lucky shot eliminated the Spurs (who i think would have taken the Wars out). It would have been OKC/San Antonio 2012 all over again, Spurs losing in 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proudfeet Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Nope. Personally ive been harping on the Wars lack of getting put through a grinder for a few months now. And i don't think the Spurs are too old =P Perhaps. And had the Spurs won or the Warriors lost to any team, you will be hearing about how the Warriors were too young, inexperienced and not playoff tested/hardened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkynJay Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Day two of rumors that the Kings and Nuggets are in talks to move Cousins. I absolutely can't fathom how the Kings are even entertainin this but I am desperate for it to happen.On the Warriors. They deserve this title 100% but it will most likely be remembered more for LeBron's performance than theirs. In two strait series they played teams that were a one man show. This team some want to call historically great lost four games and was taken to OT twice more by a single player playing iso, be it Harden or James.The good news is they have a young team that should be favored to get their again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Even with Irving/Love, I still don't think the Cavs beat the Warriors. The reason the games were even close at times was due to the defense of the replacements, not the lack of offense. Love/Irving are not very good defenders so while they might have scored more points, I doubt they would have been able to keep the Warriors under 100 in any game. I get that the Warriors had some luck but that's what you need. It's not like the Cavs had a hard path to the finals. I don't think the Warriors are an all time great team but they have the coaching, depth, defense and scoring ability to be worthy winners regardless of whether they played teams that ended up losing to others or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Even with Irving/Love, I still don't think the Cavs beat the Warriors. The reason the games were even close at times was due to the defense of the replacements, not the lack of offense. Love/Irving are not very good defenders so while they might have scored more points, I doubt they would have been able to keep the Warriors under 100 in any game. I get that the Warriors had some luck but that's what you need. It's not like the Cavs had a hard path to the finals. I don't think the Warriors are an all time great team but they have the coaching, depth, defense and scoring ability to be worthy winners regardless of whether they played teams that ended up losing to others or not.It is really hard to know what would have happened if Irving and Love had been healthy. Yes, they are not as good defenders, and the Warriors won the only game that Irving played in spite of him playing well. However, if Irving and Love could have played, the Cavs have a TON more flexibility, and it would also mean that their short rotation problems would be gone. It would allow Thompson and Mosgov to both play 10 minutes fewer per game, and I think both guys would have been better as a result. Likewise I think a big part of why the Cavs guards sucked so much is because they were pushing themselves to the limit defensively. If JR and Jones played only 10 minutes a game and Schump/Delly only 25, then there's a good chance those jump shots start falling. Even thier defense might improve (a little) with more rest. And perhaps most of all, Love/Irving could hold down the fort offensively when Lebron subs out and provided other options when he is in. We might have Lebron doing more of his usual 10/19 kinda scoreline, instead of always 14/36. A lot of it would depend on how the big game pressure effects both teams. The Warriors looked like a team that wasn't quite ready for primetime in games 1-3, but gradually pulled it together. If the Cavs were more talented, would they have been able to do that? And likewise, how would guys like Love and Irving do in the 4th quarter of a big game 6? No way to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yea, not sure I agree with that. Dell, Shumpert, Jones, Smith - none of them are good offensive, consistent offensive players. They sucked because that's how they normally play, not because they were busting their ass on defense. I don't know, I just don't think the end result changes all that much. The games might change, the excitement level might change but I still don't think the end result changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yea, not sure I agree with that. Dell, Shumpert, Jones, Smith - none of them are good offensive, consistent offensive players. They sucked because that's how they normally play, not because they were busting their ass on defense. I don't know, I just don't think the end result changes all that much. The games might change, the excitement level might change but I still don't think the end result changes. All players shoot worse when they are exhausted, it is a simple fact. How much worse depends on a lot of things, but it would only take a couple of shots/game to make a big difference in this series. Plus there's the fact that their defense probably gets better with a bit more rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 All players shoot worse when they are exhausted, it is a simple fact. How much worse depends on a lot of things, but it would only take a couple of shots/game to make a big difference in this series. Plus there's the fact that their defense probably gets better with a bit more rest. Sorry, but no. Shumper shot 37% from TWO point territory the season before this, this year he shot 41%. JR shot 41% the previous two season, and a more respectable 39% from 3's. As Mex said, Shump is not a great offensive player, and i don;t even know what JR is. He's bad, period. You keep saying he's busting his ass on D, but if the D he played was him going all out defensively...well....that's just pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 He's so good he probably even knows which end of the dry erase board is up. Whoah I know the guy just won a championship, but let's not get too crazy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yeah, I agree with Mexal. At no point with Irving and Love were the Cavs a better team than the Warriors this season. Defense was the big concern for the Cavs the entire year until, not coincidentally, Love and Irving went down and they had to change their identity on the fly. If there was some way you could combine the way they had to play in the Finals with the added talent and versatility Love and Irving would have provided, with everyone perfectly understanding their roles and the way they need to play, then yeah that team could win. Would they be able to rachet up the defensive intensity the way the Warriors did? Or would Kerr just attack the two (relative) defensive weak links relentlessly. The defensive rating with Delly/Shumpert/Lebron/Thompson/Mosgov was off the charts good and wasn't much worse with JR Smith subbing in. Why? Because everyone could hold their own. There was nothing to explot. Basically what I'm saying is Love and Irving wouldn't have been just a pure net add. There would have been a trade off of defense for offense for sure, but also in terms of identity and hustle and possibly intangibles. Their upside and versatility goes through the roof but I strongly suspect the Cavs wouldn't have been able to capture enough of it, in the moment, to overcome a damn good Warriors team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Sorry, but no. Shumper shot 37% from TWO point territory the season before this, this year he shot 41%. JR shot 41% the previous two season, and a more respectable 39% from 3's. As Mex said, Shump is not a great offensive player, and i don;t even know what JR is. He's bad, period. You keep saying he's busting his ass on D, but if the D he played was him going all out defensively...well....that's just pathetic. I don't see how that contradicts anything that I said. I'm not saying they're good offensive players, but that they would be better if they weren't so exhausted. That is true of all athletes in all sports, and their performance in the Finals backs it up. JR Smith regular season 3pt % - 38%, Finals % - 29% Schumpert season - 34%, Finals 32% Delly season - 40%, Finals 23% Jones season - 36%, Finals 30% So all four guys shot worse in the Finals than the regular season. And I'm not blaming that on the Warriors defense, because watching the games, most of those threes were open after doubling Lebron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So, out of those 4 players only one stat really matters. Shumpert's shooting, which suffered a CRAZZZY 2% because of all this defense he was playing. JR is notorious for under performing under pressure, Delly has never taken that volume of shots in his life, and Jones...barely played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I agree that having another rotation player would have taken some of the strain off these dudes, but i doubt it would have made Shump or JR play all that much better. As for Delly...he's barely an nba player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingers In The Air Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You're jelly of Delly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You're jelly of Delly. Delly is a dude that belong on this year's Knicks. A D League all star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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