TeamRhllor Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I can't be the only one who thinks R'hllor is the "good" god, right? I think that he gets a bad rep because Melissandre is not reading things correctly in the fires. He has never rewarded actual human sacrifice that I know of, and in the show he actually punished it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I can't be the only one who thinks R'hllor is the "good" god, right? I think that he gets a bad rep because Melissandre is not reading things correctly in the fires. He has never rewarded actual human sacrifice that I know of, and in the show he actually punished it. Well, I wouldn't take what happened on the show afterwards as a reflection of what George would have done. In any case, Mel's version of things may be corrupted by her Shadowbinding teachings. So, burning people, but she's not super crazy about it. Jaqen seems to think that R'hllor will be upset if people who are meant to burn do not. When Victorian burns those slave women (seriously, why do people like this guy?), Moqqoro tells him it's not the way to honour his God. So, in the end, it's a bit unclear but I tend to agree with you. We are not told that even in Volantis, where slaves and people who probably want to die are abundant, that the Red Priests burn anybody. Mel's visions, people give her a really hard time, but she is not omniscient and makes the best guesses on the information she does have available. The only marriage anyone knew about was "Arya's" makes sense. Also, getting to Stannis was the right way to the Wall, people don't see that, saying she should have gone right to Jon or Danny. But how would she have been received if she just showed up at the Wall by herself? Not very well. Going with Stannis gave her tremendous power and agency there. Now, she's getting the visions to swap to Jon, but it takes time after being bombarded with visions of Stannis for 3 years. Nevertheless, burning people i's Mel's thing, not R'hllor's thing. I think it's pretty clear because the BWB didn't burn anyone, they hang them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Forget about the show, it isn't relevant. Anyway, we don't know jack shit about R'hllor and we never will. Not even whether he exists. GRRM has been pretty clear on that (applies to all Faiths). Everything we have to go on is the Red Faith, and that's gray. When Victorian burns those slave women (seriously, why do people like this guy?), Moqqoro tells him it's not the way to honour his God.That's because of Victarion's ecumenic approach. Moquorro would have appreciated the sacrifice, if it was done in the correct manner, without the Drowned God involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Forget about the show, it isn't relevant. Anyway, we don't know jack shit about R'hllor and we never will. Not even whether he exists. GRRM has been pretty clear on that (applies to all Faiths). Everything we have to go on is the Red Faith, and that's gray. That's because of Victarion's ecumenic approach. Moquorro would have appreciated the sacrifice, if it was done in the correct manner, without the Drowned God involved.Well, it's basically been confirmed that Shireen is sacrificed and Stannis loses in the books... Those specific parts of the show are going to be quite relevant in the book, which would mean that R'hllor punishes Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Show and book can be quite different. Maybe the two are unrelated and Mel uses Shireen to resurrect Jon in the books, while Stannis does whatever he ends up doing. In the show she would probably find some other way to resurrect Jon, because contrary to the books nobody seems to care how things work anyway, so they could use some R'hollor ex Machina for it. I think someone once asked George if R'hllor was the good guy and the Others his antagonists, and he said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Or like 95-99% of the series, its shades of grey; Not the typical "oh this thing/person that seemed good is bad" or vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Well, it's basically been confirmed that Shireen is sacrificed and Stannis loses in the books... Those specific parts of the show are going to be quite relevant in the book, which would mean that R'hllor punishes Stannis. Not exactly. All we have been told is that the show and the books have the same ending, but the paths they'll take to get to that ending will be different. So all that we know from Stannis' defeat in the show is that his taking of Winterfell will not be relevant to the way the novels end. Similarly, we can reasonably conclude that any characters that have died in the show or have been omitted entirely are irrelevant to the way the novels will end. In my opinion, the most telling evidence that GRRM will keep Stannis alive and relevant in the novels is the fact that he is one of the challenges set before Daenerys in the "Slayer of Lies" prophecy. Because the show never gave the viewers this prophecy, they are free to dispose of him however they wish. So in the novels he must stay alive and remain a relevant threat, or else Daenerys overcoming him won't be worthy of prophecy, but he will be defeated, just much later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Not exactly. All we have been told is that the show and the books have the same ending, but the paths they'll take to get to that ending will be different. So all that we know from Stannis' defeat in the show is that his taking of Winterfell will not be relevant to the way the novels end. Similarly, we can reasonably conclude that any characters that have died in the show or have been omitted entirely are irrelevant to the way the novels will end. In my opinion, the most telling evidence that GRRM will keep Stannis alive and relevant in the novels is the fact that he is one of the challenges set before Daenerys in the "Slayer of Lies" prophecy. Because the show never gave the viewers this prophecy, they are free to dispose of him however they wish. So in the novels he must stay alive and remain a relevant threat, or else Daenerys overcoming him won't be worthy of prophecy, but he will be defeated, just much later.I don't know why people keep twisting my words. I said Stannis would LOSE. I didn't say he'd die. When he loses at WF, that's his last true shot at the throne. Anything after that will be like a Mance-like role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 TeamRhollor@ ... Yes but it is the same, we have no proof that Stannis will loose the battle of Winterfell in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well, it's basically been confirmed that Shireen is sacrificed and Stannis loses in the books... Those specific parts of the show are going to be quite relevant in the book, which would mean that R'hllor punishes Stannis. Which you are not supposed to mention in the book forums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Stark Wolfmen Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I don't think that R'hllor is bad like D&D think he is. Look, even Melisandre didn't burn someone for not believing in the Red God in the books. Seriously, look it up. Stannis/Mel only burn Alester Florent (betrayed Stannis), a few bannerman that refused to fight for Stannis (like 4 or 5 people), the cannibals in the North and the Lord of Bones. Also, the Red God is a very popular religion in Essos and they seem to live in harmony with other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas88 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 R'hllor doesn't strike me as a particularly bad god, the most threat goes out from the red priests.I think the books show us there are big differences between the priests we meet. So as often (also in real life) most depends on the people interpreting religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 TeamRhollor@ ... Yes but it is the same, we have no proof that Stannis will loose the battle of Winterfell in the books.I love when someone tries to correct my grammar and they fail miserably. "loose" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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