Was Aegon cut because of Jon Connington?

[Eurybia]

I think if Aegon had been introduced during the war of five guys who all lost it would have been too convoluted. While now he can pop up and cause havoc instead of being just another contender. And we're talking about he has two huge books to do shit in, Robb's arc was about that long so I don't see that as a problem either but then again I dug the twist while most hate it so I'm bias.

I pretty much agree with all of this. I do think he will die and ultimately be "pointless" in that regard, but I think the reality is we don't know what his point is yet. To unseat the Lannisters? To spread greyscale via Jon Con? To drum up support for a Targ restoration or to make things more difficult for Dany?

I think he was cut from the show because 1) he won't sit the Iron Throne in the end and 2) they streamline storylines that might be confusing/convoluted/add too many characters.

[matsuki]

I will never actually understand this decision. Asha became Yara but how come Bran and Bronn were kept the same?

I sincerely hope that's not the reason why they cut the Aegon plotline.

Non-rhotic English speaking actors/actresses...Asha becomes Asher. It's bad enough with Walda and Walder...

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

The thing is, I can't at this moment imagine that Aegon will have much relevance to the overall plot because if he did it would be simply poor plotting to just introduce him 5 books in, basically having him appear out of nowhere, and to have him change the entire direction of the story.

So I'm pretty convinced he's either fake or just irrelevant.

in which case I can't see a reason to include him in the show, which is having trouble as it is fitting everyones storylines into a 10 ep season.

[Last Horseman]

Aegon was cut because of

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(...Y...)

and $_$

I can't tell what the middle one is :huh:

[lancerman]

Because realistically he's either

1. Fake.

2. An obstacle for Dany to overcome on her journey.

3. Won't be a major player in the end.

4. The basics of his plot can be accomplished using already existing pieces.

5. Some combination of the above.

It's very unlikely that he's a real deal major player that will be a huge factor in the endgame. The fact that as a character he requires a decent size supplemental cast, probably a whole new shooting location, backstory on the sacking of King's Landing, and probably set up with the Blackfyre story and a stricter adaptation of the prophecies in the House of the Undying makes him a much bigger hurdle to get around.

It's a cost benefit thing. Economically you are paying for more actors and locations. You are adding production time, so you either need to higher a new crew or limit shooting in other areas. For actual show time you have plots in King's Landing, Winterfell, the Wall, Dorne, Stannis' camp, Bravos and Mereen (not including some scenes in the Vale, on the road, and Beyond the Wall), they already kept Bran out of this season, Jamie and Brienne were both attached to other storylines, LSH was also cut, and apparently the Greyjoy plot was put off until next year). So where do you fit in all the set up necessary to make Aegon worthwhile and then the actual scenes with him? You have to cut something. So what is it? Realistically the character better have a good pay off and be instrumental in the plot going forward, and if anybody else can relatively function in a similar way you might as well save yourself the hassle and do it.

And like others have said, when you have things like Quentyn in the books it's hard to say "oh he's definitely a crucial part of the books". Because if you asked most people after AFFC, they would have viewed most of the Dorne story as set up for him. Now I doubt most even care that he was omitted.

[ShadowKitteh]

To play devil's advocate, a storyline that requires an understanding of backstory (like Aegon) requires more time and viewer concentrion than a sub-plot about a prostitue who happens to be near major power players (Ros). I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, but it's not a 1-to-1 comparison.

This. :agree:

A few scenes of historical exposition and we are well on our way.

Easy if you've got several seasons in front of you. Not so much when there's only 20 episodes left.

Everything that actually matters and moves the plot forward is fair game to be included. Any red herring should be cut. 20 hours isn't a lot at this point.

Because realistically he's either

1. Fake.

2. An obstacle for Dany to overcome on her journey.

3. Won't be a major player in the end.

4. The basics of his plot can be accomplished using already existing pieces.

5. Some combination of the above.

It's very unlikely that he's a real deal major player that will be a huge factor in the endgame. The fact that as a character he requires a decent size supplemental cast, probably a whole new shooting location, backstory on the sacking of King's Landing, and probably set up with the Blackfyre story and a stricter adaptation of the prophecies in the House of the Undying makes him a much bigger hurdle to get around.

It's a cost benefit thing. Economically you are paying for more actors and locations. You are adding production time, so you either need to hire a new crew or limit shooting in other areas. For actual show time you have plots in King's Landing, Winterfell, the Wall, Dorne, Stannis' camp, Bravos and Mereen (not including some scenes in the Vale, on the road, and Beyond the Wall), they already kept Bran out of this season, Jamie and Brienne were both attached to other storylines, LSH was also cut, and apparently the Greyjoy plot was put off until next year). So where do you fit in all the set up necessary to make Aegon worthwhile and then the actual scenes with him? You have to cut something. So what is it? Realistically the character better have a good pay off and be instrumental in the plot going forward, and if anybody else can relatively function in a similar way you might as well save yourself the hassle and do it.

And like others have said, when you have things like Quentyn in the books it's hard to say "oh he's definitely a crucial part of the books". Because if you asked most people after AFFC, they would have viewed most of the Dorne story as set up for him. Now I doubt most even care that he was omitted.

Great post. Thanks.

I still have hope we'll see LSH, but they had to push her, so we'd be more surprised at Jon's resurrection. If we got LSH first, no one would be worried about Jon, and there would be no surprise.

I'd like LSH's inclusion far more than FAegon at this point, and with Jorah getting Connington's Greyscale, I think it's most certain we're not going to see Quentin or FAegon.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Hang on, hang on. I get that his being fake is an argument for him not being on the show because presumably it would take a lot of background history to explain the basics of his Blackfyre heritage or whatever.

But his being fake is not an argument for him being ultimately pointless, as I see people argue often. Fake or not, he can still cause a lot of damage and shake things up. In fact, I'd argue that he'd be more important if he's fake because it could cause a second Dance, whereas if he's real (and could prove it) then Dany would have no reason not to support his claim and everyone would live happily ever after. And finally, I also think that it would be more farfetched if he was real, because of the whole soap opera switch thing. But if he's fake it is more possible, because we know kids with Valyrian features are a dime a dozen in Essos.

[ShadowKitteh]

Hang on, hang on. I get that his being fake is an argument for him not being on the show because presumably it would take a lot of background history to explain the basics of his Blackfyre heritage or whatever.

But his being fake is not an argument for him being ultimately pointless, as I see people argue often. Fake or not, he can still cause a lot of damage and shake things up. In fact, I'd argue that he'd be more important if he's fake because it could cause a second Dance, whereas if he's real (and could prove it) then Dany would have no reason not to support his claim and everyone would live happily ever after. And finally, I also think that it would be more farfetched if he was real, because of the whole soap opera switch thing. But if he's fake it is more possible, because we know kids with Valyrian features are a dime a dozen in Essos.

He may be able to do a lot of "damage", but since there's only 20 hours left, why include characters that do nothing to advance the plot?

If the plot can move forward without them, cut 'em. I'd rather spend more time with the characters we know and love, than getting to know a cast of thousands that never actually effect the plot, while not getting important things having to do with our main characters. 20 hours. You can't have both.

20 hours isn't a lot of time. Even 30 hours, if HBO gets their way... it's still not a lot of time considering how many plot lines need to be resolved, unless GRRM is going to pretend he got bored and ran out of paper the way the showrunners from LOST left their steaming pile of bile.

It if doesn't advance the plot, it's expendable. (Like Tom Bombadil in LOTR.)

[Drasanil]

What else could he be for? There's no way he's sitting the throne at the end, as the lost prince returning to right the monarchy is way too cliche for this story. He's going to die, and probably in a way that makes his entire quest seem vain in the attempt. So basically Quentyn reborn, though that does make me wonder if they'll try and combine them in season 6.

You know, everything you just said applies just as easily and more readily to Jon Snow if R+L=J is true right? If anything the secret unknown magical bastard prince born of twue lub is an even bigger pile of tosh. Does that mean Jon should be dead for good after FTW?

The biggest thing that supports Aegon being legit narratively speaking, is that Daenarys is barren and Jon even if he is a Targ, is a bastard and doesn't have the "true" Targ look. If GRRM wants to keeps the hopes of House Targaryen alive Aegon is the way to do it.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I kind of think he might well be legit and a Targ. But the whole Targ thing is a complete red herring and not the important plot point we all think it is. I'm guessing the overall story is more that those getting hung up about who is on the Iron throne are going to have a big icey cold bit of reality hit them when the white walkers attack. Being a targ will be totally irrelevant when it comes to fighting the undead.

So whether hes real or not, it probably doesn't even matter to the whole storyline.