GOT - A reasoned critique

[Zyxw]

I find that the critique on the forum is often unstructured or misdirected or lacking alternative substance. So I wanted to reason and critique the choices made in an open minded way, cos at some level the show producers ought to be definitely better than the average Joe (*stop snickering*) and perhaps if we step into their shoes we can get to the core of the choices and what *better* choice ought to have been made. To achieve that end though we the book readers, needed to free ourselves of personal bias or prejudice as much as possible before proceeding.

• Why are certain characters cut?
  

Reasons: Time and money seem to be the obvious reasons. However, I feel TV, a visual medium, only allows for x number of POVs to be shown before it's no longer cohesive or coherent to eyeball during the hour. Around 10 POV per hour is the max that seems possible. Since we need repeats to progress that cuts it down to 5 locations/story lines.

Now, I imagined adding LSH, Jeyne poole, Manderly and Aegon storylines and found it difficult to progress them while doing justice to existing characters.

LSH was especially a difficult choice either way - on the one hand it does present an excellent choice for visual effects, something different, drama and initial shock but then where do we go from there in the big picture stuff? You may counsel adding more Freys and Brienne but then we are just overloading the pot.

Critique: Arianne, however represents a dilemma. She has the making to be good TV character, much better than the prose - provided an apt actress is chosen to play her. However, it seems that the character needs propping up. Even in the books it's her knights, or her father and most likely Aegon in the future. So while I think her character is warranted for the show I can't see a suitable TV story. I would compromise by dumping all but one sand snake and develop their sister relationship. I understand Trystane is needed for Myrcella and Myrcella in turn is needed for Cercei's prophecy & potential conflict with Dorne. As a compromise, Arrianne could be her father's counsel, an alter ego, while keeping her other characteristics from the book intact and working Jaime away from Cercei.

• Why are plots/characters merged?
  

Reasons: Existing characters and storylines are easier to follow on screen. Having them take up more than one role/location allows for maximum potential to fit within the allocated time schedule and budget. Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne seems to allow them something to do as their book counterparts and not upto much visually depictable and at the same time also allow Dorne's introduction.

Critique: Dorne - Extremely poor direction, acting, dialogue, costumes and characterisation in its execution. I would rather have developed and matured Jaime away from Cercei's hold under Dorans and Arianne tutelage, similar to his inner reflections and conflicts in the riverlands. I would also show him practicing his left hand sword skills with Bronn.

I would show Doran to be a wise, indecisive but crafty and Arianne to be his alter ego. For some reason I have always imagined Natalie Dormer to be Arianne.

Winterfell - Sansa as Jeyne works in principle but as Alayne and not herself. She also needed to play a bit more than the one isolated scene where she questions Ramsey's rights or Myranda in the bath prior to her wedding. I would have had Alayne trying to work Ramsey over from day one with mixed results.

• Why new plots are added when there is already so much to choose from source material?
  

Reasons: One of the reasons I think is that they want to add their mark on it. Secondly, a straight adaptation offers no surprises. Thirdly, it can be dynamic and adapt to to what works on screen from feedback i.e. An actor can really hold the show aloft and it's worth it for them to be shown more i.e. Margery, Ollena and Tywin etc. Most importantly though, one of the only strengths of TV over prose is visual effects and exploring possible stories that offer a great chance to do that must be done. It stems from the old maxim that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Critique: Showing nights king, the real threat posed via hardhome on screen as opposed to whispers was an excellent choice for TV. It was a great especially for the unsullied to realise the threat from the north is real. Although, I don't understand why Jon is still amazed at seeing giants even though he has spent so much time with them since season 2.

Now, lets get to FTW. Firstly, this has been critiqued somewhat incorrectly on almost all reviews and I'll explain why

Q: Why did Alistair allow him and wildlings through the wall at all?

A: His grief was with Jon and not the other night's watch members that accompanied Jon. His character unlike Janos Slynt could not possibly let them die in the crossfire. Secondly, the entire nights watch was there and not just the small ceasering group. He just did not have a choice.

Q: Why are they on the wrong side of the wall?

A: Agree, but I have had this problem in the books as well that everyone seems to want to cross at CB. Why not walk try the walk around the wall at the sea on either side. Make some rafts and just walk around it. You have giants and mammoths to come up with a powerful solution. Now the side on TV -0 Stannis arrived on that side as well so they are at least consistent in their inconsistency.

My problem was that why did Jon need to bring them to CB at all? With the ships he could have come on the other side of the wall and led them to the gift/new gift.

Q: Too late to caesar for that reason.

A: Agree, but even in the books I find Jon's reaction to pink letter logically incorrect with his character. Pink letter does not reconcile Jons character and the situation. He counselled Stannis against it for excellent reasons, reasons he seems to have forgotten in the moment and to add he knows his vows and values most of them above all things.

Anyway, I agree that TV was less believable than the books on FTW but the book FTW reason was not a great reason either.

I did love the execution in the books though, the commotion and suddenness was really good but just not the precursor to the event.

• Why change extremely minor details like dialogues "Only Cat", "Fetch me a block Ed"?
  

Reason: Really stumped why they do that. Only reason is to avoid predictability or that they are not paying that as close a attention as the book readers. however, I don't think it's a middle finger to the readers.

• Why does the show not wait for books to come out?
  

Reasons: Actors will not stop ageing, hiatus causes huge budget overheads and lastly hard to predict when the prose might be done and they cannot chance that.

Critique: It is clear that GRRM is not happy with show choices. I can imagine it would be hard for him to suffer any changes in the show but in the end the show is poorer

without any involvement from him from season 4. I feel that he chosen to have nothing to do with it anymore and that's understandable and he had some valid reasons

but in the end its the show, which is still his prodigal child, and it suffers. Dorne is just the beginning..

[kissdbyfire]

You're basing your critique on deviations from the books, characters that have been merged or cut, etc.

And that's all right, but the show can be criticised independently from the books.

For argument's sake, imagine the books don't exist and that the show is an original work.

No internal logic, no character consistency, complete disregard for character development, and gigantic plot holes. Those are enough on their own to make the show mediocre at best.

[RedShirt47]

IWhy change extremely minor details like dialogues "Only Cat", "Fetch me a block Ed"?

Reason: Really stumped why they do that. Only reason is to avoid predictability or that they are not paying that as close a attention as the book readers. however, I don't think it's a middle finger to the readers.

I think many of these comments like "Only Cat" have garnered cult status on the forums as people discuss those scenes and those phrases become synonymous with those scenes.

But if you're not a forum die-hard (which I doubt D&D are) these phrases don't mean that much. I didn't hold any particular affection for "Only Cat" and only found out it was a thing when the forums started complaining about its absense.

"Only your sister" is slightly easier for the casual viewer. The only thing "Only Cat" has going for it is that it was said in the books, it's not liek it's a great piece of prose.

But I agree with most of your post. The Hate Cult on this forum is disheartening. I can understand them giving "Unbowed Unbent Unbroken" a rating of 1, Dorne was terrible and Sansa's scene would have upset many. But they gave Hardhome a rating of 1 too, any reasonable hater would have given it at least a 2.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

But they gave Hardhome a rating of 1 too, any reasonable hater would have given it at least a 2.

:lol:

[JagLover]

A reasonable explanation of why so much had to missed out from the books.

The problems with season 5 (and they were many) stemmed mainly from the execution of the plot lines they did choose to pursue and from pacing issues following on from not being bold enough in terms of how far they wished to go with certain storylines.

I hope that the slow plod through Mereen, and Tyrion's rather dull travelogue over the same period has laid to rest any delusions that AFFC/ADWD could have been stretched over 2-3 seasons.

[WSmith84]

A lot of the Wall stuff this year felt rushed, even if it was done well. This was due to the decision last season to leave the battle for Castle Black until episode 9, when it should have been in 2 or 3. That would have eliminated the crap filler we got in Jon's and Stannis' stories (Craster's Keep, for example) and would have allowed some of the material of this season to be in season 4 (Stannis and Jon interacting, Jon's election, Stannis' offer to Jon etc.) It would have given those scenes more room to breathe and would have massively helped the pacing. It would also have allowed them to devote more time building up the burning of Shireen (and hopefully, with the extra screen time, they could have written it better). I would also have had more talk between Jon and the officers about aiding the wildlings and Stannis and have that as the focus of discontent instead of 'for the taters!' Olly. All in all, Wall stuff was fine (with some very bad and very good), but could have been better.

I would have sent Sam off to Oldtown with Aemon after Jon was elected. They're doing that anyway, and Jon sending Aemon away to avoid the risk of Stannis burning him would have been good to see. I don't feel that Sam added much to the Wall story, and the sex scene after Gilly's near rape was... problematic, to say the least.

Dorne was uniformly terrible. I don't know what NCW did, but why he is being punished with this drivel is unfathomable. Sand Snakes should have been cut and Arianne should have been included (maybe introduced in S4). The filming in Spain, whilst pretty, seemed to be a big waste of money. Maybe they should have cut Dorne entirely and just have Myrcella die off-screen and have whoever (Arianne, Nym etc.) appear in KL. Siddig was wasted.

I would have left the Northern storyline as close to the books as possible. Don't put Sansa there (that decision cost every character and improved nothing) and don't bother with Jeyne Poole either; it's better to cut something than adapt it badly. More important for Theon's redemption is simply being back in Winterfell. I would have given him scenes in front of the Heart Tree, praying, confessing, asking for forgiveness etc. I would have cast some Northern Lords; an Umber, Lord Manderly and maybe Lady Dustin. I would also have included some Freys in Winterfell and mention that many hostages were taken during the Red Wedding (explaining why the Northerners haven't risen up). Most importantly: Ramsey would not be the main character in this story. That is a thing I think they got fundamentally wrong this year. I thought, on the whole, the Northern plot was badly handled, even if the acting was good.

Stannis' stuff felt rushed and very contrived. Not to mention a terrible end for such an interesting character.

I think, whilst Hardhome was great, that I would have instead done a proper battle for Winterfell. One of the problems with Feast and Dance is that they end on many cliffhangers; giving us a definite resolution to the Northern plot would have been great.

I would have left Sansa in the Vale but give her minimal screentime. Have her interact with Royce, LF and Robin. She could manipulate Robin, learn something from LF and remind (subtly) Royce of the ties between the North and Vale. Three scenes would probably have done it.

In KL I would have just had Cersei try to frame Margaery for adultery. Simpler and more believable. I would also have had the High Sparrow suggest arming the Faith, not the other way around. I wouldn't have the FM smashing up brothels and barrels of beer; instead I would have dedicated a little more time to showing their plight and make them more sympathetic. Overall, I felt that KL was done OK (WoS was excellent, as was Septa Spoonella) but the homophobia thing (the birthmark, Margaery's arrest) hurt the story more than it helped. I would also have cut the prophecy stuff as well (from both books and show); didn't really add anything, although young Cersei was excellent.

Arya's stuff was alright (not a big fan of her Braavos stuff in the books) but I can imagine it was confusing to non-book readers as to what was going on half of the time. They also underused and misused the actor for Jaqen (personally I thought bringing him back, whilst a little problematic for the story, was probably a good decision).

I have no idea what I would have done with Brienne, but in the show she became pretty unlikeable. Too much screentime, imo.

Meereen was pretty bad; worse than the book version (which I didn't really like) in my opinion. The Unsullied looked pathetic all season, Dany flip-flopped through personalities, Barristan got a rubbish death...

I have no idea what I would have done with Meereen. Same with Tyrion. Definitely would have removed that awful 'break the wheel' speech though.

I thought the season overall was... OK. It suffered a lot from poor narrative logic and poor characterisation. The acting is generally very good, as are the effects, locations etc. (though there were exceptions to all this year).

[marsyao]

A reasonable explanation of why so much had to missed out from the books.

The problems with season 5 (and they were many) stemmed mainly from the execution of the plot lines they did choose to pursue and from pacing issues following on from not being bold enough in terms of how far they wished to go with certain storylines.

This is BULL, this is so not true, first let me give you a list the failuare of the season 5 plots:

1) Everything relate to Dorne

2) Sansa goes to wintefell and marry Ramsay

3) Stannis and battle of Wintefell

4) For the watch

5) sons of the harpy and other ridicules of meereen

I can ensure you have these failures ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with GRRM's novels, I am not saying there are no fault in GRRM's books, but the plot used by D&D in the season 5 is NOT from GRRM's novel, but from their own creation, the only things in common between season 5 and GRRM's book 4 and 5 are the characters and geographical locations share the same names. If you have read the books, you ought to know that, if not, then you are lying to yourself or worse.

I saw so many such kind of ridiculous such season 5 is not that good simply because GRRM's book 4 and 5 sucks, so what could you expect? Now I just wonder whether this is an organized effort

[Primalsplit]

I think many of these comments like "Only Cat" have garnered cult status on the forums as people discuss those scenes and those phrases become synonymous with those scenes.

But if you're not a forum die-hard (which I doubt D&D are) these phrases don't mean that much. I didn't hold any particular affection for "Only Cat" and only found out it was a thing when the forums started complaining about its absense.

"Only your sister" is slightly easier for the casual viewer. The only thing "Only Cat" has going for it is that it was said in the books, it's not liek it's a great piece of prose.

But I agree with most of your post. The Hate Cult on this forum is disheartening. I can understand them giving "Unbowed Unbent Unbroken" a rating of 1, Dorne was terrible and Sansa's scene would have upset many. But they gave Hardhome a rating of 1 too, any reasonable hater would have given it at least a 2.

I agree on iconic lines. I didn't know they were that important until I have joined the forum. Again, I am reading a translated version, so there's that.

As for the hardhome, it represented what I hated of the direction the show was taking. I enjoyed the episode. I really did, and yet again I still gave it a 1. Because it just seemed like a repeated trick the show tried to do. "Hey! Cool battle!" The show did this with blackwater, watchers on the wall and craster's keep before. I do not have any problems with blackwater and watchers on the wall. But Craster's keep was already a needless(non-canon) casual fight scene. Then there is that harpy attack on the street on unsullied, and harpy attack in Daznak's pit later in the season. They all are created for "zomg cool battle" and are the definiton of fanfictionesque writing. I hated the mentality behind it.

Then there's that womb syndrome scene, which would make it enough to make me rate it as 1. That was fucking stupid.

[marsyao]

I agree on iconic lines. I didn't know they were that important until I have joined the forum. Again, I am reading a translated version, so there's that.

As for the hardhome, it represented what I hated of the direction the show was taking. I enjoyed the episode. I really did, and yet again I still gave it a 1. Because it just seemed like a repeated trick the show tried to do. "Hey! Cool battle!" The show did this with blackwater, watchers on the wall and craster's keep before. I do not have any problems with blackwater and watchers on the wall. But Craster's keep was already a needless(non-canon) casual fight scene. Then there is that harpy attack on the street on unsullied, and harpy attack in Daznak's pit later in the season. They all are created for "zomg cool battle" and are the definiton of fanfictionesque writing. I hated the mentality behind it.

Then there's that womb syndrome scene, which would make it enough to make me rate it as 1. That was fucking stupid.

This is exactly what I say repeatedly, the only thing good in the episode are those cool battle scenes, it serves nothing, and it makes the later "for the watch" making little sense: how could you stab Jon Snow after not only Jon but so many brothers of the watch witness with their own eyes the imminent huge threats of white walker's army?

[Tagganaro]

Snip- Great Summation

I'm pretty much in agreement.

The Wall- I'll give them a break since the Hardhome stuff was amazing, but my one big complaint was how everything was about Olly. Needed more Ghost, and would have preferred to keep forcing Jon to get involved in Northern politics. Would have also liked to see Alys Karstark and her wedding to the Thenns, but understand why that was cut.

Everything about the North was pretty much uniformly terrible. I wouldn't have cut Mance and the Pink Letter, I sure as hell wouldn't have cut Manderley, Dustin, and the Freys and Frey Pie and the North Remembers. The show has an obsession with Ramsay that is hard to explain. He really was the main character in the North.

Sansa should have been between Arya and Bran- which is to say minimal scenes in the Vale for like 2-3 episodes. It's all set-up for now, no need to assassinate the character in the process of setting up yet another "shocking" scene.

Mereen was a mess in the books, so I think what we got on the show was a big improvement. The Unsullieds' incompetence was the one red flag (actually make that 2, the bigger one was the unbearable Grey Worm/Missandei time-wasting scenes).

Brienne...yeah I guess they wanted to get her to kill Stannis, so that was something. But I would have done the same thing with her as with Sansa- 2 or 3 episodes of action scenes with Nimble Dick (that would have been fun), maybe Mad Mouse in a 1-off quick scene. Just fun, quick scenes that have a lot of action and cut out the more contemplative stuff from the books.

[RedShirt47]

As for the hardhome, it represented what I hated of the direction the show was taking. I enjoyed the episode. I really did, and yet again I still gave it a 1... They all are created for "zomg cool battle" and are the definiton of fanfictionesque writing. I hated the mentality behind it.

This is just them playing to their strengths. TV can do Epic Action that won't be so good in a book. The books do better characterisation.

The two different media can be used to portray different elements or to view the same elements from different angles.

Pleople complain that nothing happens in the first seven episodes this year but last year they got around it by having some action at Crasters in ep 5. TV needs these action moments to work. Books can get away with nothing happening for a lot longer.

[Primalsplit]

This is exactly what I say repeatedly, the only thing good in the episode are those cool battle scenes, it serves nothing, and it makes the later "for the watch" making little sense: how could you stab Jon Snow after not only Jon but so many brothers of the watch witness with their own eyes the imminent huge threats of white walker's army?

Yeah, there's also that major problem.

Besides there are some minor inconsistencies. Wildlings fighting wights with no fire, but straight through headshotting them with a bow (there was even a scene where a wight didn't even flinch after that, but there were also scenes where a headshot was treated like a K.O finisher). An Other straight up killing the asshole Thenn guy with his spear but instead of penetrating Jon's ass with it when the said ass is available, just grabs Jon and tosses him through the room instead. (sorry for the violent description but this is GoT after all :) )

What was an Other doing in that mess anyway. From the way it looked, Others were standing atop a mountain like generals; sending pawns to do their dirty work and then this Other came there just to have a cool swordfight? This is not illogical in itself, but still also not entirely needed at all.

Well, NW and Others arrived in the same time frame. I wonder what that reminds me of :smug:

The last scene. Night's Kind performing a mass ressurrection spell. I mean... Something was a bit cheesy there.

Overall, not even near Blacwater quality. Gee. Wonder who wrote that Blackwater episode.

[Primalsplit]

This is just them playing to their strengths. TV can do Epic Action that won't be so good in a book. The books do better characterisation.

The two different media can be used to portray different elements or to view the same elements from different angles.

Pleople complain that nothing happens in the first seven episodes this year but last year they got around it by having some action at Crasters in ep 5. TV needs these action moments to work. Books can get away with nothing happening for a lot longer.

Ok. I'll give you that one. You have the right of it. More battle scenes are an improvement for TV. No matter how we look at it, it looks good on screen. I just rated it as 1 as I saw it as a cheesy pattern of writing. I analyzed the episode within it's season.

By the way, the reason why people complain nothing happens in first seven episodes is; there is really not much happening. It was not because there was not many fight scenes. So, I'd say we better not confuse the two. And I don't think TV needs action moments to work. It is just fine addition if handled well. But not essential.

Take for Harpy scenes in this season for instance. The one in episode 4 could have been considered canon: A bunch of unsullied are trapped by Harpies. That could have been a good scene. It would not even be action filler as it would create a portrait that Harpies begin to represent a serious threat. The way it handled is pathetic but that is irrelevant. Same goes for Barristan's death.

In daznak's pit, it was unnecessary action. I think it damaged the show more than it helped. It was out of place, needless, non-canon, did not help the plot at all. Hell there were gladiator fights in the same episodes and they were fine.

Action scenes are fine, but this is not a show about action. I judge the show based on their primary interest, story. If they try to use dirty tricks to salvage their lazy work, I give them no brownie points. Besides there's the problem marsyao pointed out. It harmed the narrative a bit as well.

Also something to consider, battle of ice should come first before hardhome. Skip a canon battle and show a fanfiction battle? It is bad priority I'd say. Well... maybe tv audience simply needed to be reminded of Others. I dunno. There's still something I'm not entirely ok with here.

[Guess who's back]

You're basing your critique on deviations from the books, characters that have been merged or cut, etc.

And that's all right, but the show can be criticised independently from the books.

For argument's sake, imagine the books don't exist and that the show is an original work.

No internal logic, no character consistency, complete disregard for character development, and gigantic plot holes. Those are enough on their own to make the show mediocre at best.

Is that the reason GoT season 5 is 97% fresh on rotten tomatoes? And basically the main criticism from real critics is that plot is not advancing. The same problem that books has.

[Arya and Needle]

For argument's sake, imagine the books don't exist and that the show is an original work.

As the poster above implied, we don't have to really imagine, because this is basically true for the vast majority of viewers out there, so we can go see what they think.

There are a couple of consistent concerns with those people. The first and foremost is the Sansa rape, which a lot of people who have never read the books found problematic and didn't fill much of a purpose. The second is the death of Jon Snow - not how it happened, just that it happened at all. The third is that the Dorne stuff was not up to the show's usual quality.

And really that's about it. Other than those complaints, there's nothing really there. People generally can't tell or don't care that Olly wasn't a book character, have little to no complaints about Ramsey's prominance (again, other than the Sansa scene), don't seem to think that Stannis has poor characterization, or have any problem with the Drogon pit scene. Nearly everyone outside these boards thinks that the season was excellent, even with the issues regarding Sansa, Jon, and Dorne.

Obviously, you may know individual people who think differently, and that's fair, but that's a summary of the general consensus.

[kissdbyfire]

Is that the reason GoT season 5 is 97% fresh on rotten tomatoes? And basically the main criticism from real critics is that plot is not advancing. The same problem that books has.

I have no idea why GoT has such a rating on RT nor do I care. 99.9% of the world population can give it a 10/10, still won't make the issues I've mentioned go away; they're there. Whether those issues bother 99.9% of viewers or not doesn't matter either. They bother me, so I won't give it a 10/10, or even a 5/10.

As the poster above implied, we don't have to really imagine, because this is basically true for the vast majority of viewers out there, so we can go see what they think.

First, the post above yours doesn't imply that at all. It states that GoT has a 97% fresh rating on RT, and that real critics have complained about lack of plot advancement, and then goes on to say the same problems that books has (sic).

And that last bit is precisely why I said, 'pretend the books don't exist for argument's sake. Because 'the show has the same problems the books have' is the most common argument used by show apologists.

There are a couple of consistent concerns with those people. The first and foremost is the Sansa rape, which a lot of people who have never read the books found problematic and didn't fill much of a purpose. The second is the death of Jon Snow - not how it happened, just that it happened at all. The third is that the Dorne stuff was not up to the show's usual quality.

And really that's about it. Other than those complaints, there's nothing really there. People generally can't tell or don't care that Olly wasn't a book character, have little to no complaints about Ramsey's prominance (again, other than the Sansa scene), don't seem to think that Stannis has poor characterization, or have any problem with the Drogon pit scene. Nearly everyone outside these boards thinks that the season was excellent, even with the issues regarding Sansa, Jon, and Dorne.

Obviously, you may know individual people who think differently, and that's fair, but that's a summary of the general consensus.

As I've said before, if people are happy with the show and think it's excellent, all I can say is, 'good for them'. Most of my friends have read the books, and don't like the show. To each their own, if everyone loved the same things all the time, it would make for a very boring world.

That said, I stand by what I said in my first post here. I stand by it 100%. The show has several glaringly obvious problems, and these problems really ruin my enjoyment of the story.

[xjlxking]

You can't ask book readers on forums to rate GoT. They tend to rate GoT on how faitful it is. They don't look to rate how good it is, they just associate that it the changes. I don't think anyone denies that the the Novels are better. Shockingly, I don't see this with Comic Book readers. Like the movies change so much but they don't complain as much. Any ways, the minority tends to be more vocal

[kissdbyfire]

For fuck's sake, stop bleating that the problem book readers have is because of the changes. Try and pick a different argument for once.

The problems the show has are of its own making. I've rated several episodes 8 - 9 in the past, even a few 10/10 here and there.

But not this year. The highest I rated an episode this year was 5 or 6, can't remember. Gave it quite a few 1s and 2s as well.

[WSmith84]

For fuck's sake, stop bleating that the problem book readers have is because of the changes. Try and pick a different argument for once.

The problems the show has are of its own making. I've rated several episodes 8 - 9 in the past, even a few 10/10 here and there.

But not this year. The highest I rated an episode this year was 5 or 6, can't remember. Gave it quite a few 1s and 2s as well.

Exactly. Hell, I was really looking forward to this season because I felt that they were going to make substantial changes to the novels, so I wouldn't always know what was going to happen. But this season had major problems, most of which were of its own making.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

For fuck's sake, stop bleating that the problem book readers have is because of the changes. Try and pick a different argument for once.

Actually, the problems the show has now is that they are using book scenes. Considering all the changes they have made, keep the scenes from the book is ridiculous and makes little sense.