Total crackpot for Jon's future- Possible book and show spoilers

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Tinfoil hats ready? Then I'll begin.

One of the biggest obstacles to Jons resurrection is the fact the NW will want to burn his body. What if they burn the wrong body? But how? I hear you say, the NW know what jon looks like. That is true, but we have Mel at the wall who is competent with glamours, in fact let me direct you to the following quote from ADWD

"The bones help," said Melisandre. "The bones remember. The strongest glamours are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man's shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer's essence does not change, only his seeming."

This is conversation between Jon and Mel where Mel explains how the strongest glamours are made, with boots or hair (both fairly vague) but then a bag of finger bones is very specific, indeed only one person in ASOIAF is known and that is Davos who is also at the wall.

In the books, Davos loses his finger bones at the battle of blackwater, in the show however, this is not mentioned though Davos's fingers are still shortened.

So here's the crackpot bit, what if Mel kills Davos and Glamours Jon as Davos using his finger bones? With Stannis presumed dead along with Shireen, could Davos's ultimate purpose be to protect Jon long enough for Mel to resurrect him.

So what do you guys think? Do I need to be committed?

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

I think it's just more likely he walks out of the fire like Dany after the eggs hatched. Probably with assistance for Mel. If Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, perhaps more than a single sacrifice was needed to ensure his return, perhaps she needed (though she didn't even see it until that very moment of rebirth) that an entire army needed sacrificing before he could be reborn.

[BalerionTheCat]

Burning bodies is what the NW always does now. And Jon is dead. I bet he will not return without a fire. I expect something comparable to Daenerys in season 1, more or less. I don't think Melisandre could do the magic really. But it could help if she was burned like Mirri Maz Duur.

[xjlxking]

Well in terms of the show, few night watch member have actually seen the WW. Maybe they don't burn; maybe they just throw his body into the land that belongs to the wildings lol

Nails in the coffin

[Red Typer of Dorne]

I think it's just more likely he walks out of the fire like Dany after the eggs hatched. Probably with assistance for Mel. If Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, perhaps more than a single sacrifice was needed to ensure his return, perhaps she needed (though she didn't even see it until that very moment of rebirth) that an entire army needed sacrificing before he could be reborn.

Maybe, but the problem I have with this is that in about 300 years of Targaryn history, Dany is the only one I recall to have any resistance to fire so to have two suddenly pop up would be a little strange.

[VenezuelanLord]

You know i actually have a crackpot theory that involves davos too, perhaps you guys can tell if i should lay down the tinfoil a bit.

So, we begin where we left in the finale, jon being stabbed, i think Mel could be in Jon's quarters since it is the only place thats not full of rapist, she notices something is wrong with jon because ghost is out of control (like greywind in the RW), she lets him out and follows him to the place where jon is, but she is too late he is dead, so, she needs to hide the body, as you pointed out, but how could she hide the body, she's alone,weak and a little unstable since all the business with stannis, here's where Davos enters the play, he's the best smuggler in westeros, he can totally hide jon's body, but where?, i know we havent had any exposition to the ice cells (at least that i remember), but i think is not far fetched that edd knows about them, so he help them get jon there (he's still loyal to jon), they put jon in the ice cell and mel gives jon the kiss of fire, he comes back, but remains comatose ( here BR could give him a tour to his true origin, just like he did with bran), midseason, perhaps even finale, jon wakes up, to find the wall about to fall and the NW fractured. The wildings would serve as a distraction, being surrounded the conspirators would not pay attention to jon's corpse

[chandl34]

Jon was injured by burns when he saved Mormont. I don't think he has Targaryen heat resistance.

[BalerionTheCat]

Well in terms of the show, few night watch member have actually seen the WW. Maybe they don't burn; maybe they just throw his body into the land that belongs to the wildings lol

They burned every one of the Wildling and the NW who died at the Wall. They were already doing it at Craster's Keep.

In normal conditions, I don't think Melisandre could restore Jon in something better than Beric. I believe she would need more "incentive", like being put on the pyre, like it was with Mirri Maz Duur. In the books, the Wildling could do that, because she forced them to burn their weirwood gods. In the show, I wouldn't know.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Or Davos could toss Mel into the fire because of Shireen and Stannis and accidentally create the Dany scenario for Jon (burning witch, Targ blood)

Just wishful thinking :)

[Damon_Tor]

I think the Night's Watch is going to be too busy with a Civil War (novels) or a Wildling Assault (show) to care what happens to Jon Snow's body, giving Melisandre ample opportunity to attempt a resurrection (which I expect will initially fail, leaving him in a Drogo-esque comatose state). For the duration of the sixth novel/season, Snow will be in this "dead" state, and will not return until either the end of the sixth novel/season or the start if the seventh. By the time he wakes up the Night's Watch will be entirely destroyed by the aforementioned Civil War/Wilding Assault. The wall itself may have collapsed at that point.

[The Man from Nowhere]

As we know that D&D don't wish to go beyond 7 seasons, although 8 looks the most realistic now, I don't think they can afford to leave Jon out of the action for that long. More likely he will be revived within the first 5 or so episodes, as will Danny's situation with the dothraki in my opinion. They need to hit end game mode and they are only expanding at the moment, particularly next season with the introduction of iron islands folk and Sams family. As for using glammers, unless they are going to try and convince us the real Mance isn't dead as we think he is in the show, then I think it's highly unlikely for that mechanism to be employed.

This interests me as the books make it seem that it will be warging that saves Jon, although they could still do this for the first few episodes with more shots of ghost possibly interacting with Mel

[BalerionTheCat]

With the exception the shadow babies, I believe everything Mel said or did has been downsized in the show. Her burning of Shireen has been only partially successful. I don't think we are expected to believe, or it would not be logical, that she could resurrect Jon. At least not fully. It is possible the show gives us an undead Jon, in replacement of Stoneheart, but I don't think so. And I totally refuse to think about that in the books. Even for the duration of one book or season.

Ghost is now nearly never with Jon, we barely remember Ghost is Jon's direwolf. And IMO. And Jon warged in Ghost would be, IMO, difficult to adapt. I don't feel they will use that stuff.

[Ben H'gahr]

Jon was injured by burns when he saved Mormont. I don't think he has Targaryen heat resistance.

maybe because, according to GRRM, a Targaryen heat resistance does not exist. And IMO he's kinda an authority on that matter.

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

Jon was injured by burns when he saved Mormont. I don't think he has Targaryen heat resistance.

Targaryens aren't immune to fire. Earlier I said Jon would walk out of the fire like Dany, not because they're both Targaryens but because it would be some blood magic ritual.

In Dany's case, the witch died.

In Jon's case he will die (The boy) and the man will be born.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Targaryens aren't immune to fire. Earlier I said Jon would walk out of the fire like Dany, not because they're both Targaryens but because it would be some blood magic ritual.

In Dany's case, the witch died.

In Jon's case he will die (The boy) and the man will be born.

This something I've never quite understood. 'only death pays for life' it is implied that the deaths of Mirri Maz Dur, Drogo and Rheago buy the life of Dany's three dragons.......So how does she walk out? We also have the hot bath and the picking up the dragon egg out of the brazier. So is Dany immune? I'm pretty sure the dragons were raised with blood magic, but did Dany have to be in the fire for them to hatch?

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

This something I've never quite understood. 'only death pays for life' it is implied that the deaths of Mirri Maz Dur, Drogo and Rheago buy the life of Dany's three dragons.......So how does she walk out? We also have the hot bath and the picking up the dragon egg out of the brazier. So is Dany immune? I'm pretty sure the dragons were raised with blood magic, but did Dany have to be in the fire for them to hatch?

Maybe not being burned by the hot egg was a sign, something magical to push her into the direction she took?

Or maybe she specifically is fireproof through some connection with her Dragons. Who knows.

[chandl34]

maybe because, according to GRRM, a Targaryen heat resistance does not exist. And IMO he's kinda an authority on that matter.

According to his quote in the wiki, it does:

The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire,

Resistance != immunity. Did he later change his mind to say Targaryens have no increased tolerance to heat?

Is Dany a special case, that can resist fire better than other Targaryens, or is Viserys a special case, that cannot resist fire as well as other Targaryens?

[VenezuelanLord]

Perhaps jon's mixed blood downplayed the heat resistance a bit, or well the direct contact with fire ( without magic intervention) does harm targs, Aegon the unlikely died in a fire, his brother died drinking wildfire, dany was burned by drogon scales

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Ben H'gahr, on 27 Jun 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

maybe because, according to GRRM, a Targaryen heat resistance does not exist. And IMO he's kinda an authority on that matter.

According to his quote in the wiki, it does:

Quote

The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire,

Resistance != immunity. Did he later change his mind to say Targaryens have no increased tolerance to heat?

Is Dany a special case, that can resist fire better than other Targaryens, or is Viserys a special case, that cannot resist fire as well as other Targaryens?

Some people think it was a spell that protected Dany from being consumed in the fire.

A king-Khal's blood

A powerful witch

the birth of dragons

Since she hasn't been walking through fire since, we don't know if it's conditional or not. She definitely has amazing heat resistance. The scalding dragon eggs didn't burn her hands and the incredibly hot water didn't bother her at all. Her grandfather Aegon "Egg" was burned in the fires at Summerhall, so, he wasn't fireproof. And one of Aegon's brother's died from drinking wildfire. And obviously Viserys couldn't even handle hot wax well (the bath, not the crown of gold)

So Dany is rare.

[VenezuelanLord]

So Dany is rare.

I dont think shes rare, she has heat (not fire) resistance, she was burned by drogon, the only time i recall her resisting fire was in drogo's pyre, and it was the magic of the dragon's birth (or MMD sacrifice) that protected her, Jon could have heat resistance, we couldnt know, he lives in freaking north, he may as well love it, he was burned in the Lord commander tower but he was holding the fire(lantern/courtain) barehanded , so IMHO, Targs are heat resistant, but to a limit, molten gold, wildfire, a raging fire in summerhall or a lanter/courtain caught on fire could harm them