Jump to content

Illyrio and Strong Belwas


Recommended Posts

So I haven't seen this theory laid out, please let me know if it is out there somewhere. I think the below could easily be possible. This has to do with a very overlooked character in terms of the game of thrones: Illyrio Mopatis. As far as we know, Illyrio used to be a poor bravo living in Pentos, up until the time that he met Varys and they constructed their thievery scheme that became extremely lucrative. Illyrio became very wealthy, married the daughter of a cousin of the Prince of Pentos, and has lived a life of luxury since. (Source: Mostly from Illyrio's conversation with Tyrion on the road to meeting Haldon and Duck.)


Illyrio and Varys have also been grooming "Aegon" for the past twelve years, providing him with a master-at-arms, maester, septa, and former lord of Westeros in order to enable Young Griff to be as well educated about Westeros as possible. Varys has been working to create chaos and war in Westeros in order to give Young Griff an advantage when they are finally ready to try and conquer the Seven Kingdoms. (Source: Varys explains this plan to Kevan in the Epilogue of ADwD.)


Now in A Game of Thrones, Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio talking while she is hidden in the darkness of the cellars of the Red Keep. From this overheard conversation, we learn two things:

1) Illyrio supplies Varys with coins and little birds

2) Varys is trying to hold the eventual war from breaking out because Illyrio says they are not ready and need more time.

(Source: Arya's chapter when chasing cats in A Game of Thrones.)


Now most people think Illyrio is referring here to Daenerys in that the Dothraki are not ready to sail to Westeros. From ADwD especially, I think that Illyrio here is actually talking about Young Griff, in that his army, The Golden Company, has not been persuaded to join his cause yet and that the boy may not be mentally ready yet to go forward with this attack.


I say this because Illyrio had not given much care and thought to Viserys and Daenerys. If he needed them for his plan at the beginning, he would have most likely spent much effort helping them and preparing them to become future rulers. Illyrio knew from the beginning what Viserys was and definitely did not see him as a promising ruler for Westeros. He tells Tyrion, "Viserys was Mad Aerys's son, just so." I can't think that Illyrio would trust Viserys in any way and help his quest for the Iron Throne. (Source: Tyrion's second chapter in A Dance with Dragons.)


Thus, I think Illyrio played a smart move in helping to eliminate Viserys by arranging Daenerys' marriage with Khal Drogo. The Dothraki were savage fighters who would be hard to stop, but Viserys was too arrogant to see them as anything more than fighters, thus his major downfall. I believe that Illyrio knew that Drogo would not follow another person, especially an outsider, and that Viserys' persistence to head west would only get him in trouble with the Khal.


Illyrio understands the traditions of the Dothraki, and tried to educate Viserys about them, and used his knowledge to his advantage. This move also seems to have been a strategic move to secure safety for Pentos by providing Khal Drogo with the gift of a beautiful young bride. It has been mentioned that The Free Cities have paid off khals with gifts, coin, women, etc. in order to ensure that a khalasar does not attack the city.


With this move, Illyrio would be able to provide safety for his city while helping to eliminate competition for Westeros, and also possibly setting up Daenerys' death as a byproduct of Viserys' madness.

Illyrio does mention to Tyrion that he did not expect Daenerys to survive her time with the horselords. When she first came to Pentos, he saw her as a frightened young girl and appeared to have at the time not paid much mind to Dany in any of his schemes. (Source: Illyrio's description to Tyrion in Tyrion's 2nd chapter in ADwD.)


Meanwhile in Kings Landing, Varys was informed by Jorah that Daenerys was with child, leading to Robert calling for an assassination attempt to kill her and her baby. Surprisingly, Varys is one of the ones in favor of this and even comes up with a smart solution via poison, since no weapons were allowed in Vaes Dothrak. Yet, Varys also informs Jorah of the plot to kill Daenerys, basically ensuring that the attempt would fail. (Source: Chapter involving Ned at Small Council as well as Dany in Vaes Dothrak during AGoT.)


It seems vital that the attempt need to be stopped, in order to keep Robert from getting his revenge but still enraging Drogo enough to make him act out of rage. I think this was Varys' way of persuading Khal Drogo to finally head toward Westeros, a voyage that Illyrio and Varys definitely knew would be a rough one for the Dothraki.


While many people believe that the Dothraki would have been serious trouble when they landed on Westeros, we have to remember that:

1) The Dothraki hate the sea and call it the poison water because their horses cannot drink it

2) Drogo himself says that "No horse can cross the poison water," indicating that he would be very hesitant to sail to Westeros

3) On Dany's voyage from Qarth, she notices how her handmaids are retching constantly, her bloodriders are hiding their fear so as not to look weak, and the rest of the khalasar remains below deck with their horses.

(sources: various chapters in AGoT, ACoK, and ASoS).


From this, I can ascertain that the Dothraki would have been incredibly hesitant to cross The Narrow Sea, especially for lands that they did not care about, and even if they did make the voyage, that much of Drogo's khalasar would have been destroyed by storms or sickness. Thus, I think Varys' attempt on Daenerys' life was a ruse to convince Drogo to attempt to cross the Narrow Sea, which could have killed him and more importantly Dany, yet would have brought no suspicion onto Varys or Illyrio.


Yet, everything about this plan backfired when Drogo was killed by the sorcery of Mirri Maz Duur, although there was still the possibility of Dany being killed by Drogo's bloodriders. Then, everything that Varys and Illyrio have been working on changed when: Dany came out of the fire with three dragons. (Source: Near the end of AGoT).



As Illyrio states, "The frightened child who sheltered in my manse died on the Dothraki sea, and was reborn in blood and fire. This dragon queen who wears her name is a true Targaryen." (source: Tyrion's 2nd chapter ADwD).


Immediately, Daenerys became essential to Illyrio's plan with Young Griff, and he sent out three ships to track down her and her dragons. It seems a bit weird that Illyrio would immediately find an interest in Daenerys, yet Strong Belwas makes it perfectly clear what Illyrio's intentions are:

"He would have dragons," said Belwas gruffly, "and the girl who makes them. He would have you."

Notice the wording; Belwas claims that Illyrio sent him to get the dragons firstly, and also the mother of the creatures. Daenerys appears to be an afterthought of Illyrio's, knowing that in order to get the dragons he must also get Dany's allegiance. (Source: Dany's last chapter in ACoK).


Illyrio provided Dany with three ships to return west. This was enough for her small group of followers to return to Pentos along with her dragons. If Illyrio is already planning on paying the Golden Company to help out Young Griff at this time, then he would not need an army from Daenerys, just the advantage of the three dragons.


I think it really important to look at the two messengers sent to bring back Daenerys. In A Dance with Dragons, we learn that Barristan only became part of the plan when him fleeing Westeros coincided with Illyrio's plan on sending a message to Dany at Qarth. Illyrio knows that Selmy is an honorable man and one that he could trust to serve Dany loyally, saving her from trouble. (source: chapters from ACoK and ADwD)


My big question is: why was Strong Belwas sent as a messenger? He was a former pit fighter and currently one of Illyrio's slaves, so I do not see him as a great person to deliver such an important message to Daenerys, especially because he is not a persuasive person when it comes to words. So I think that Strong Belwas is much more than he seems to be.


If Strong Belwas was entrusted to bring back a crucial part of Young Griff's army, it is essential that Illyrio trust Belwas strongly, even if the eunuch does not know why the dragons are important. I think that Illyrio has groomed Strong Belwas, told him more about his plans than anyone would think, and sent him to Daenerys to report her activities on the journey back, in case anything went amiss.


Belwas appears to be a perfect person to go under the radar as a possible informant, because no one would expect a person who was raised and lived as a fighter to be anything else. Daenerys especially would not expect him to be any more than he appears, because she trusts Illyrio and gives away her trust too easily to people who are willing to defend her by fighting, (i.e. Daario, Brown Ben Plumm, even Jorah).

This would not be the first time that Daenerys was provided with the help of a trusted comrade who was passing along letters about her movements on a regular basis. While Varys and Illyrio's little birds are helpful in small details, it makes sense for Illyrio and Varys to need a big presence around Daenerys in order to know certain strategies and big decisions that she makes.


While there is a lot of different talk about Daenerys and her dragons from sailors and pirates around Essos, Illyrio seems to know for sure that Daenerys did indeed sack Astapor, free the slaves from Yunkai, and conquer and take residence in Meereen. (source: Tyrion's 2nd chapter in ADwD.)


Once Daenerys decides to stay in Meereen and rule, Illyrio's plan for aiding Young Griff with the dragons is put on hold because he's not in a position to force Daenerys to keep heading west. However, Illyrio does have a vast amount of wealth and a respected former fighter of Meereen at his command to be able to have an influence.

I believe that Illyrio sent coins and gold to Belwas in order to persuade people of Meereen to help fight for him. Strong Belwas grew up in the fighting pits, so was most likely loved by people, both slaves and nobles, whoever had the chance to see him fight. He knows the city and has the respect of enough people that with a bit of coin, I am certain he could create an army of his own.


I think that Illyrio convinces Belwas to form the Sons of the Harpy, to keep Daenerys more cautious when it comes to her army, but also to convince her that Meereen will never be hers. He is a trusted protector by Dany, thus he is made aware of her patrols of the streets and other various strategies of her army. As a fighter, he would understand the strength of the Unsullied, thus would be smart enough to give them as bad of a disadvantage as he could. Illyrio and Belwas' notion in the killings would be it is better for Dany to lose a few members of her army if it convinced her to give up on Meereen; however, Dany was incredibly stubborn like usual and fought for peace in her city.


Also, the tension between Daenerys and the nobles of Meereen was so high to begin with, that any attack on Dany's people would immediately draw attention to the nobles, only creating more havoc in the torn city. The nobles were in a perfect place to be the easy scapegoat in order for Strong Belwas to continue to work under cover and not draw any suspicion his way at all. Also, by drawing harpys above the victims, it only further points towards the killings being carried out by people loyal to Meereen.




A question to bring up then, is if Belwas is "The Harpy" in Meereen and wants Dany to leave, then why stop the killings when she asks Hizdahr to bring her peace?



My answer to that is that the quickest and easiest way back to Volantis is by ship. Dany banishing the slave trade in Meereen and rejecting Xaro Xhoan Daxos for a second time, has created a blockade of the waterways by Yunkai and Qarth, a path that would be needed to head to Volantis. Also, peace would ensure that war would not come and the dragons would remain safe from harm.


Then, near the end of A Dance with Dragons, Young Griff has waited long enough for Daenerys, and decides to head to Westeros and begin his attack on the Seven Kingdoms. This move was most likely the end of any plans with Daenerys to join his cause because whenever Dany finally arrives in Westeros, the possibility that she decides to fight Young Griff for the throne could easily happen, and if so Dany would have the advantage of three dragons. (source: last chapters of Jon Connington in ADwD).



Thus, I think that Illyrio created the assassination attempt with the poisoned locusts in order to take out Daenerys. Why and why poisoned locusts?

1) Because Young Griff lost a major ally when Daenerys decided to stay in Meereen.

2) Illyrio has always acted from afar, and no one would expect anything relating to him if the poison was in the King's food

3) There were so many people opposing Dany that it could lead to so many other suspicions

4) We already know that Varys and Illyrio have used poison to attempt to kill her before

5) Illyrio, who cares about his safety and rarely travels anywhere in case he were to get harmed, would definitely be a coward who would use poison as a weapon.


But then what about Belwas eating the poisoned locusts, well I have a few theories on that:

1) Belwas didn't know about them and ate the locusts without any knowledge of the poison or

2) Belwas was told about the attempt and risked his life because he did not want Dany to die or die in that way (Belwas is definitely one who would see poison as a woman's weapon and a cheap way to kill someone)

3) There could also be the possibility that the locusts were meant for Belwas, and Illyrio was trying to kill him for failing on bringing Dany over in time


I think that Belwas did all of this for Illyrio because he was promised his freedom if he were to succeed, much like Jorah being promised a pardon for helping to keep an eye on Daenerys.


Then, I think that Belwas has lost control of The Sons of the Harpy, and that is why they resume their attacks once Belwas is injured, as well as attack in crazy large numbers that were nothing like before. The attacks before were always in small numbers, yet the latest total was twenty nine in one night. I think this shows that the group is now out of control, most likely because they have no leader to keep them in check.


Please let me know what you think. Would appreciate it if anyone can provide proof to either further support or debunk this theory. Valar Morghulis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sympathetic to the argument that the "Sons of the Harpy" may be a bit of a mummer's trick to get Dany out of Mereen. And yes, Illyrio very much wants Dany to leave Mereen by ship and go to Volantis. Why ship? My guess is this will prevent her from bringing the bulk of her army. Why Volantis? Especially since a slave revolt is brewing where Dany's name is being used to rally the slaves. Especially while the Volantis Tiger's are being distracted by a horde of Dothraki across the river. Especially with the Golden Company staked outside of Volantis. I think Illyrio's most immediate plan is to take down the Valyrian descendants that are ruling Volantis.



And how does he do this? Simple, he brings Dany and a small portion of her army to unite with the Golden Company outside of Volantis. The Volantis assume that Dany is joining the Golden Company to take down Volantis like she took down the last three slave cities. They attack Dany and the Golden Company, and then the slaves revolt within the city, when their savior is attacked by Volantis. Perhaps even the Dothraki horde attack as well. Long story short, the Black Walls of Volantis fall, and the Red Priests take over the city, Dany's forces are depleted and perhaps during the confusion her dragons are also stolen. Unfortunately for Illyrio, "Aegon" decides to invade without waiting for Dany, and Dany flies North instead of West.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I haven't seen this theory laid out, please let me know if it is out there somewhere. I think the below could easily be possible. This has to do with a very overlooked character in terms of the game of thrones: Illyrio Mopatis. As far as we know, Illyrio used to be a poor bravo living in Pentos, up until the time that he met Varys and they constructed their thievery scheme that became extremely lucrative. Illyrio became very wealthy, married the daughter of a cousin of the Prince of Pentos, and has lived a life of luxury since. (Source: Mostly from Illyrio's conversation with Tyrion on the road to meeting Haldon and Duck.)

Illyrio and Varys have also been grooming "Aegon" for the past twelve years, providing him with a master-at-arms, maester, septa, and former lord of Westeros in order to enable Young Griff to be as well educated about Westeros as possible. Varys has been working to create chaos and war in Westeros in order to give Young Griff an advantage when they are finally ready to try and conquer the Seven Kingdoms. (Source: Varys explains this plan to Kevan in the Epilogue of ADwD.)

Now in A Game of Thrones, Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio talking while she is hidden in the darkness of the cellars of the Red Keep. From this overheard conversation, we learn two things:

1) Illyrio supplies Varys with coins and little birds

2) Varys is trying to hold the eventual war from breaking out because Illyrio says they are not ready and need more time.

(Source: Arya's chapter when chasing cats in A Game of Thrones.)

Now most people think Illyrio is referring here to Daenerys in that the Dothraki are not ready to sail to Westeros. From ADwD especially, I think that Illyrio here is actually talking about Young Griff, in that his army, The Golden Company, has not been persuaded to join his cause yet and that the boy may not be mentally ready yet to go forward with this attack.

I say this because Illyrio had not given much care and thought to Viserys and Daenerys. If he needed them for his plan at the beginning, he would have most likely spent much effort helping them and preparing them to become future rulers. Illyrio knew from the beginning what Viserys was and definitely did not see him as a promising ruler for Westeros. He tells Tyrion, "Viserys was Mad Aerys's son, just so." I can't think that Illyrio would trust Viserys in any way and help his quest for the Iron Throne. (Source: Tyrion's second chapter in A Dance with Dragons.)

Thus, I think Illyrio played a smart move in helping to eliminate Viserys by arranging Daenerys' marriage with Khal Drogo. The Dothraki were savage fighters who would be hard to stop, but Viserys was too arrogant to see them as anything more than fighters, thus his major downfall. I believe that Illyrio knew that Drogo would not follow another person, especially an outsider, and that Viserys' persistence to head west would only get him in trouble with the Khal.

Illyrio understands the traditions of the Dothraki, and tried to educate Viserys about them, and used his knowledge to his advantage. This move also seems to have been a strategic move to secure safety for Pentos by providing Khal Drogo with the gift of a beautiful young bride. It has been mentioned that The Free Cities have paid off khals with gifts, coin, women, etc. in order to ensure that a khalasar does not attack the city.

With this move, Illyrio would be able to provide safety for his city while helping to eliminate competition for Westeros, and also possibly setting up Daenerys' death as a byproduct of Viserys' madness.

Illyrio does mention to Tyrion that he did not expect Daenerys to survive her time with the horselords. When she first came to Pentos, he saw her as a frightened young girl and appeared to have at the time not paid much mind to Dany in any of his schemes. (Source: Illyrio's description to Tyrion in Tyrion's 2nd chapter in ADwD.)

Meanwhile in Kings Landing, Varys was informed by Jorah that Daenerys was with child, leading to Robert calling for an assassination attempt to kill her and her baby. Surprisingly, Varys is one of the ones in favor of this and even comes up with a smart solution via poison, since no weapons were allowed in Vaes Dothrak. Yet, Varys also informs Jorah of the plot to kill Daenerys, basically ensuring that the attempt would fail. (Source: Chapter involving Ned at Small Council as well as Dany in Vaes Dothrak during AGoT.)

It seems vital that the attempt need to be stopped, in order to keep Robert from getting his revenge but still enraging Drogo enough to make him act out of rage. I think this was Varys' way of persuading Khal Drogo to finally head toward Westeros, a voyage that Illyrio and Varys definitely knew would be a rough one for the Dothraki.

While many people believe that the Dothraki would have been serious trouble when they landed on Westeros, we have to remember that:

1) The Dothraki hate the sea and call it the poison water because their horses cannot drink it

2) Drogo himself says that "No horse can cross the poison water," indicating that he would be very hesitant to sail to Westeros

3) On Dany's voyage from Qarth, she notices how her handmaids are retching constantly, her bloodriders are hiding their fear so as not to look weak, and the rest of the khalasar remains below deck with their horses.

(sources: various chapters in AGoT, ACoK, and ASoS).

From this, I can ascertain that the Dothraki would have been incredibly hesitant to cross The Narrow Sea, especially for lands that they did not care about, and even if they did make the voyage, that much of Drogo's khalasar would have been destroyed by storms or sickness. Thus, I think Varys' attempt on Daenerys' life was a ruse to convince Drogo to attempt to cross the Narrow Sea, which could have killed him and more importantly Dany, yet would have brought no suspicion onto Varys or Illyrio.

Yet, everything about this plan backfired when Drogo was killed by the sorcery of Mirri Maz Duur, although there was still the possibility of Dany being killed by Drogo's bloodriders. Then, everything that Varys and Illyrio have been working on changed when: Dany came out of the fire with three dragons. (Source: Near the end of AGoT).

As Illyrio states, "The frightened child who sheltered in my manse died on the Dothraki sea, and was reborn in blood and fire. This dragon queen who wears her name is a true Targaryen." (source: Tyrion's 2nd chapter ADwD).

Immediately, Daenerys became essential to Illyrio's plan with Young Griff, and he sent out three ships to track down her and her dragons. It seems a bit weird that Illyrio would immediately find an interest in Daenerys, yet Strong Belwas makes it perfectly clear what Illyrio's intentions are:

"He would have dragons," said Belwas gruffly, "and the girl who makes them. He would have you."

Notice the wording; Belwas claims that Illyrio sent him to get the dragons firstly, and also the mother of the creatures. Daenerys appears to be an afterthought of Illyrio's, knowing that in order to get the dragons he must also get Dany's allegiance. (Source: Dany's last chapter in ACoK).

Illyrio provided Dany with three ships to return west. This was enough for her small group of followers to return to Pentos along with her dragons. If Illyrio is already planning on paying the Golden Company to help out Young Griff at this time, then he would not need an army from Daenerys, just the advantage of the three dragons.

I think it really important to look at the two messengers sent to bring back Daenerys. In A Dance with Dragons, we learn that Barristan only became part of the plan when him fleeing Westeros coincided with Illyrio's plan on sending a message to Dany at Qarth. Illyrio knows that Selmy is an honorable man and one that he could trust to serve Dany loyally, saving her from trouble. (source: chapters from ACoK and ADwD)

My big question is: why was Strong Belwas sent as a messenger? He was a former pit fighter and currently one of Illyrio's slaves, so I do not see him as a great person to deliver such an important message to Daenerys, especially because he is not a persuasive person when it comes to words. So I think that Strong Belwas is much more than he seems to be.

If Strong Belwas was entrusted to bring back a crucial part of Young Griff's army, it is essential that Illyrio trust Belwas strongly, even if the eunuch does not know why the dragons are important. I think that Illyrio has groomed Strong Belwas, told him more about his plans than anyone would think, and sent him to Daenerys to report her activities on the journey back, in case anything went amiss.

Belwas appears to be a perfect person to go under the radar as a possible informant, because no one would expect a person who was raised and lived as a fighter to be anything else. Daenerys especially would not expect him to be any more than he appears, because she trusts Illyrio and gives away her trust too easily to people who are willing to defend her by fighting, (i.e. Daario, Brown Ben Plumm, even Jorah).

This would not be the first time that Daenerys was provided with the help of a trusted comrade who was passing along letters about her movements on a regular basis. While Varys and Illyrio's little birds are helpful in small details, it makes sense for Illyrio and Varys to need a big presence around Daenerys in order to know certain strategies and big decisions that she makes.

While there is a lot of different talk about Daenerys and her dragons from sailors and pirates around Essos, Illyrio seems to know for sure that Daenerys did indeed sack Astapor, free the slaves from Yunkai, and conquer and take residence in Meereen. (source: Tyrion's 2nd chapter in ADwD.)

Once Daenerys decides to stay in Meereen and rule, Illyrio's plan for aiding Young Griff with the dragons is put on hold because he's not in a position to force Daenerys to keep heading west. However, Illyrio does have a vast amount of wealth and a respected former fighter of Meereen at his command to be able to have an influence.

I believe that Illyrio sent coins and gold to Belwas in order to persuade people of Meereen to help fight for him. Strong Belwas grew up in the fighting pits, so was most likely loved by people, both slaves and nobles, whoever had the chance to see him fight. He knows the city and has the respect of enough people that with a bit of coin, I am certain he could create an army of his own.

I think that Illyrio convinces Belwas to form the Sons of the Harpy, to keep Daenerys more cautious when it comes to her army, but also to convince her that Meereen will never be hers. He is a trusted protector by Dany, thus he is made aware of her patrols of the streets and other various strategies of her army. As a fighter, he would understand the strength of the Unsullied, thus would be smart enough to give them as bad of a disadvantage as he could. Illyrio and Belwas' notion in the killings would be it is better for Dany to lose a few members of her army if it convinced her to give up on Meereen; however, Dany was incredibly stubborn like usual and fought for peace in her city.

Also, the tension between Daenerys and the nobles of Meereen was so high to begin with, that any attack on Dany's people would immediately draw attention to the nobles, only creating more havoc in the torn city. The nobles were in a perfect place to be the easy scapegoat in order for Strong Belwas to continue to work under cover and not draw any suspicion his way at all. Also, by drawing harpys above the victims, it only further points towards the killings being carried out by people loyal to Meereen.

A question to bring up then, is if Belwas is "The Harpy" in Meereen and wants Dany to leave, then why stop the killings when she asks Hizdahr to bring her peace?

My answer to that is that the quickest and easiest way back to Volantis is by ship. Dany banishing the slave trade in Meereen and rejecting Xaro Xhoan Daxos for a second time, has created a blockade of the waterways by Yunkai and Qarth, a path that would be needed to head to Volantis. Also, peace would ensure that war would not come and the dragons would remain safe from harm.

Then, near the end of A Dance with Dragons, Young Griff has waited long enough for Daenerys, and decides to head to Westeros and begin his attack on the Seven Kingdoms. This move was most likely the end of any plans with Daenerys to join his cause because whenever Dany finally arrives in Westeros, the possibility that she decides to fight Young Griff for the throne could easily happen, and if so Dany would have the advantage of three dragons. (source: last chapters of Jon Connington in ADwD).

Thus, I think that Illyrio created the assassination attempt with the poisoned locusts in order to take out Daenerys. Why and why poisoned locusts?

1) Because Young Griff lost a major ally when Daenerys decided to stay in Meereen.

2) Illyrio has always acted from afar, and no one would expect anything relating to him if the poison was in the King's food

3) There were so many people opposing Dany that it could lead to so many other suspicions

4) We already know that Varys and Illyrio have used poison to attempt to kill her before

5) Illyrio, who cares about his safety and rarely travels anywhere in case he were to get harmed, would definitely be a coward who would use poison as a weapon.

But then what about Belwas eating the poisoned locusts, well I have a few theories on that:

1) Belwas didn't know about them and ate the locusts without any knowledge of the poison or

2) Belwas was told about the attempt and risked his life because he did not want Dany to die or die in that way (Belwas is definitely one who would see poison as a woman's weapon and a cheap way to kill someone)

3) There could also be the possibility that the locusts were meant for Belwas, and Illyrio was trying to kill him for failing on bringing Dany over in time

I think that Belwas did all of this for Illyrio because he was promised his freedom if he were to succeed, much like Jorah being promised a pardon for helping to keep an eye on Daenerys.

Then, I think that Belwas has lost control of The Sons of the Harpy, and that is why they resume their attacks once Belwas is injured, as well as attack in crazy large numbers that were nothing like before. The attacks before were always in small numbers, yet the latest total was twenty nine in one night. I think this shows that the group is now out of control, most likely because they have no leader to keep them in check.

Please let me know what you think. Would appreciate it if anyone can provide proof to either further support or debunk this theory. Valar Morghulis.

I'm going to have to slightly correct some of what you said.

  1. Illyrio and Varys were "not" grooming him. Varys was in Westeros and if Aegon was living such a humble lifestyle as Varys said, then Aegon didn't have much contact with Illyrio either. Illyrio was providing much of the mean so his adopted father JonCon can groom him.
  2. It could be both Aegon and Dany. Aegon is only one year older than Dany. Dany and Aegon would have to be ready at the same for the plan to be a success.
  3. Dany and Viserys on the run from King Robert. Varys and Illyrio could not be seen actively helping them, that would get and Varys killed. They could help if they come to him, now it is less suspicious that way.
  4. Illyrio did tell Viserys not to go with them and he did cry at his death. If that was apart of his plan, why cry? No really care about them expect ppl loyal to the Targs which so few.
  5. All these secret murder of the Targ are completely unnecessary. Illyrio could have killed them easily no drama, why try to have nature or brutes the job for him?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to have to slightly correct some of what you said.

  1. Illyrio and Varys were "not" grooming him. Varys was in Westeros and if Aegon was living such a humble lifestyle as Varys said, then Aegon didn't have much contact with Illyrio either. Illyrio was providing much of the mean so his adopted father JonCon can groom him.

It could be both Aegon and Dany. Aegon is only one year older than Dany. Dany and Aegon would have to be ready at the same for the plan to be a success.

Dany and Viserys on the run from King Robert. Varys and Illyrio could not be seen actively helping them, that would get and Varys killed. They could help if they come to him, now it is less suspicious that way.

Illyrio did tell Viserys not to go with them and he did cry at his death. If that was apart of his plan, why cry? No really care about them expect ppl loyal to the Targs which so few.

All these secret murder of the Targ are completely unnecessary. Illyrio could have killed them easily no drama, why try to have nature or brutes the job for him?

You bring up some good points, thanks for correcting some things I wrote. I will try and explain further why I think Illyrio is talking about Aegon and why Illyrio may be planning the murder attempts.

2. Illyrio tells Tyrion in ADwD how Dany was a scared young girl when she and Viserys came to him. He also did not expect her to survive with the Dothraki. So I would assume that Illyrio is not talking about Dany to Varys because he did not seem to see much promise in her. They could have been talking about Viserys, but I do not think either of them wanted Viserys on the Iron Throne because all of the reports that were heard about him told of him being a Beggar King, who too much resembled the Mad King. I think that Aegon was probably who they were talking about due to Varys' talk to Kevan about the plans with "Aegon", especially because Illyrio has helped to fund Jon Connington a bit with the training of Young Griff.

5. While it may be a stretch to think of Illyrio being behind attempts at Dany's life, remember how Illyrio operates. He would never do anything to completely compromise his situation, or to leave any lose ends that could tie back to him. When him and Varys are talking in Kings' Landing they are in the dungeons, probably because Illyrio does not want anyone to know that he is there. He does not travel to Qarth or even to meet Griff and company, claiming both times that his health does not suit him for such a journey. While this may be a viable excuse, I would expect someone so concerned with Aegon's return to Westeros to try a bit more to be a large role in it. Except that he plays the same type of role as Varys, doing all of his work behind the scenes, so that no one knows his true intentions. Getting the Dothraki or Daenerys' enemies in Meereen to do his bidding would be perfect for him if he wanted Daenerys dead because he would not receive any blame at all and he could keep on scheming. If he would have killed Dany when she visited his place, he could have lost everything because there would be little chance of people seeing her dying at Illyrio's as a coincidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I'm going to have to slightly correct some of what you said.

  1. Illyrio and Varys were "not" grooming him. Varys was in Westeros and if Aegon was living such a humble lifestyle as Varys said, then Aegon didn't have much contact with Illyrio either. Illyrio was providing much of the mean so his adopted father JonCon can groom him.

It could be both Aegon and Dany. Aegon is only one year older than Dany. Dany and Aegon would have to be ready at the same for the plan to be a success.

Dany and Viserys on the run from King Robert. Varys and Illyrio could not be seen actively helping them, that would get and Varys killed. They could help if they come to him, now it is less suspicious that way.

Illyrio did tell Viserys not to go with them and he did cry at his death. If that was apart of his plan, why cry? No really care about them expect ppl loyal to the Targs which so few.

All these secret murder of the Targ are completely unnecessary. Illyrio could have killed them easily no drama, why try to have nature or brutes the job for him?

While I am still trying to understand the whole, it is very easy to see why Illyrio would not kill them. If his plans are indeed Aegon, killing his only living relatives would cause a bit of revolt. Well, he still got Bloodraven and Aemon back then, but few people knew they were alive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...