Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It seems obvious to me that Roose Bolton is blackmailing Walder into the RW with the lives of little Walder and big Walder at WF. He does what any grandfather would do. So why does he get zero sympathy on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 oooh you :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apovsic Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It seems obvious to me that Roose Bolton is blackmailing Walder into the RW with the lives of little Walder and big Walder at WF. He does what any grandfather would do. So why does he get zero sympathy on here?Um what?Since when has Walder shown any concern for his kin?The answer is never.He doesn't give a damn about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I know right? People just hate him because he killed some Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Um what?Since when has Walder shown any concern for his kin?The answer is never.He doesn't give a damn about them. So he`s never wanted the best for his kids? Why did he feel slighted again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septon Oberyn Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Seriously? It is relatively obvious that Walder enjoyed watching the Red Wedding. He was not a reluctant participant, and it doesn't seem likely that he was actually being blackmailed. He felt slighted and Walder Frey doesn't tolerate slights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 He broke guest right. In Westeros that's a grave sin. It's not nice to kill people at your daughter's wedding. Every RSVP to the next Frey wedding will be returned "unable to attend." Oathbreaking as well. If the man you've pledged to support as king breaks his word to you, there is of course a right to be upset, but not to murder the guy. He's still your king, unless you're a weasel...see my next point. He's also a weasel who makes people give him something for crossing a river, and not just money--which would be perfectly acceptable. A toll is fine, extorting marriages is a bit much. He's a coward who arrives late to any battle so he can be sure to be on the winning side. At least back when he was in his fighting (or rather not fighting) days. And he was a brat as a kid too, per The Mystery Knight. Walder is just not remotely likable. Far too Machivellian, not caring enough about his family (dangling the inheritance above all of them like a carrot), and ultimately doomed, possibly to be killed by a member of his own family. The only guiding principle he has is ambition to increase his own status. There's nothing particularly noble about him. At least Tywin Lannister cared about his family's reputation--thus why he let Walder take the bulk of the blame for the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 So he`s never wanted the best for his kids? Why did he feel slighted again? When have we ever known the "I felt slighted" defense to work in a murder trial? Should everyone in Westeros go around killing people who hurt their feelings? Robb damaged his ambition, not his ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Seriously? It is relatively obvious that Walder enjoyed watching the Red Wedding. He was not a reluctant participant, and it doesn't seem likely that he was actually being blackmailed. He felt slighted and Walder Frey doesn't tolerate slights. Apart from the use of the phrase watched greedily where do you draw this assumption? Remember the descriptive is from Catelyn`s POV and she already has a lw opinion of him. As for not caring for his family, not giving in to Cat when she threatens Aegon proves nothing as he was probably seen as a stain on the family, though i doubt Walder was happy to lose him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It seems obvious to me that Roose Bolton is blackmailing Walder into the RW with the lives of little Walder and big Walder at WF. He does what any grandfather would do. So why does he get zero sympathy on here? Once you made that assumption, the answer to your question should be obvious, too: we're unfairly prejudiced against him for no reason. (George, for the love of gods, where's the next book?! Do you see what the wait makes of people?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 He broke guest right. In Westeros that's a grave sin. It's not nice to kill people at your daughter's wedding. Every RSVP to the next Frey wedding will be returned "unable to attend." Oathbreaking as well. If the man you've pledged to support as king breaks his word to you, there is of course a right to be upset, but not to murder the guy. He's still your king, unless you're a weasel...see my next point. He's also a weasel who makes people give him something for crossing a river, and not just money--which would be perfectly acceptable. A toll is fine, extorting marriages is a bit much. He's a coward who arrives late to any battle so he can be sure to be on the winning side. At least back when he was in his fighting (or rather not fighting) days. And he was a brat as a kid too, per The Mystery Knight. Walder is just not remotely likable. Far too Machivellian, not caring enough about his family (dangling the inheritance above all of them like a carrot), and ultimately doomed, possibly to be killed by a member of his own family. The only guiding principle he has is ambition to increase his own status. There's nothing particularly noble about him. At least Tywin Lannister cared about his family's reputation--thus why he let Walder take the bulk of the blame for the Red Wedding. As a man described as not long for this world, who feels his family has been held back by other families snobbery, why should he care about tradition and superstition unless he`s devoutly religious and fears damnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 2/10 on the Troll Scale. Try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Bane Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 walder Frey gets sympathy from me because the Starks broke their promise to him. Walder is a lot more interesting than any of the Starks put together, including Jon Snow. Robb gave him good reason to break the alliance. I'm not really fond of Walder,. but he makes the story more interesting and I can see why he would hate Robb. Roose blackmailed Walder? Not likely. Roose was the one in trouble. He let Jaime Lannister escape from Harrenhal. Robb would have found out eventually and beheaded Roose for treason. Roose committed to betraying Robb when he let Jaime leave Harrenhal instead of taking him back to Robb as a prisoner. I don't doubt that Roose provided moral support to give Walder some additional reassurances that his actions would not have any repercussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeves Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Why? Because Walder went overboard with his grudge against Robb Stark. I don't blame him for getting upset, but the red wedding was over the top reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitbert Strangejoy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The Freys are the good guys in the end game. Who else can repopulate all of Westeros in several generations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 As a man described as not long for this world, who feels his family has been held back by other families snobbery, why should he care about tradition and superstition unless he`s devoutly religious and fears damnation Because it's not just about him. Every member of his family who participated will be cursed. And it doesn't matter whether he personally believes it or not, most of Westeros does. He's just shot himself in the foot with regard to future marriages for his descendants. No one will trust a Frey for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Assuming this isn't a troll-thread, which is kind of hard to believe: Walder Frey doesn't care about his grandchildren from his 3rd or 4th wife, he let Catelyn cut Jingglebell's throat with no regrets whatsoever. He has enough heirs that he doesn't care if a few of them die, he feels like at least one of them will probably survive. He wasn't blackmailed, he just hates being disrespected and Robb disrespected him by marrying Jeyne, and broke his oath, that's why he felt like he didn't have to hold to guest right and could just slaughter them. Roose gave him an opportunity to switch to the winning side, which the Freys always do in the end, so Walder is just as much to blame for the whole mess as Roose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I've never came across any evidence that Big & Little Walder were being held hostage and that Old Walder Frey was being blackmailed. Also, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't care that much about his kin (as is evidenced numerous times in the text). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Remember he sent Big and Little Walder to WF as wards in good faith. The lack of protection the Starks gave them could have helped push him into his collusion. Maybe I`m wrong, but i read the look he receives from Roose Bolton as more of a threat to see it through than a lets do this look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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