Gone with the Wind?

[Grayce Hornwood]

Is it racist? Yeah. Is it out of the norm for the time period? No.

[Theda Baratheon]

I never knew much about what this movie was about and I was always like ''ahhhh gotta watch this one day as it's a classic'' now I'm like ''ehhh, I can do without'' :P

[Dr. Pepper]

lol. "family friendly movie". good one.

Not going to lie, I very much negatively judge people who claim this movie as one of their favorites, unless I have some inkling they are naming the film for some sort of technical advancement or something.

[David Selig]

Vivien Leigh is so good in this that I like it a lot despite the racism and the plot is somewhat of a mess. Also visually it's still quite impressive.

[HexMachina]

I never knew much about what this movie was about and I was always like ''ahhhh gotta watch this one day as it's a classic'' now I'm like ''ehhh, I can do without'' :P

I always mistake it for Wind in the Willows when I hear the title :leaving:

[AndrewJ]

SORRY DID NOT MEAN TO POST 3X, DIDN'T SEEM TO POST PROPERLY ON MY END. HOW TO DELETE?

Tyrion's Double Axe......

Yep, the board does that often. Everyone here has been bitten by it at least once. Don't sweat it. :)

[Summah]

TDA, no the entire character of Mammy is a stereotype, including the ridiculous idea that she cared about the cruel bitch who used to own her and that wasn't some kind of Stockholm syndrome. In GWTW all the black characters are depicted in a racist way, on the surface and for those who have personalities in depth as well. The bad black people escape from slavery during the war and then go around raping white woman, so the kkk (mad up of good white men) has to get involved and help and do some lynchin'. The good black people are aunt jemimas and mistrel show blackface stereotypes and toms. They were loyal to the white people who owned them and knew those white people were superior to them. That people think this is not so bad is amazing, because this movie is really awful if you think about it and it's worse than birth of a nation because it's still shown and spreading racism today, whereas most people now see birth of a nation for the racist shit it is.

[eyenon15]

Its ok you can still watch a million other movies&media if you want to see southern whites portrayed as the inbred inferior white monsters we all know that every single one of them were during the Civil War and still are today.

As for spreading racism, that's a bold claim. Are there still people today who were completely not racist, they watch Gone With the Wind and catch a case of racism? Not saying it's impossible but it seems pretty fishy claim to me.

[Summah]

It's lost cause propaganda. The ku klux klan are literally the good guys in the film. Black people who leave after emancipation are literally bad men who rape white women. You cannot brush aside the racism of this film because you like it. And right now, with a huge debate where some people are finally realizing how racist and offensive the confederate flag is and others are appropriating other people's tragedies and movements to defend it (#southernlivesmatter defending the cf and they apparently can't see the irony there), right now is really not the time and say oh well it's ok, so what if it's racist, it's old, no one takes it seriously anymore, certainly not all those women who think it's soooooo romantic.

[The King in Black]

Umm.... it's overrated piece of shit, but the racism really is a product of it's time. There are far worse pieces of racism in media, many of which are happening today

[eyenon15]

Here's an interesting article comparing Spike Lee's Malcolm X to Gone With the Wind.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/06/29/there-is-no-moral-difference-between-malcolm-x-and-gone-with-the-wind/

for the record, I'm neither "conservative" nor "liberal". I find them both to be ideologies of simpletons. But I still thought that article was interesting.

[Myrddin]

It's a period film, both in the period it was replicating and the period it was made. Decrying it as crap for racist reasons is a bit much. You might as well dump 90% of classic world literature create before the year, well, ever created.

Regardless, Scarlet is a fascinating and complex character, as grey and contradictory as any of our modern greats (Walter White, Tony Soprano, etc). She did horrible things for good reasons (survival of her family), even though she had a selfish streak a mile wide. She incredibly cunning and manipulative, yet naive and childish.

Mammy is the moral center of the movie. Regardless whether her role is stereotypical, that relationship existed in the deep south. She was Scarlet's mother figure and Scarlet relied on her for strength, even though she ignored her advice much of the time. Hattie McDaniel was rightly honored for her performance.

/shrug

I can still enjoy the movie for what it is, without viewing it through a 21st century lens.

[Grayce Hornwood]

^This :agree:

[Summah]

It's a period film, both in the period it was replicating and the period it was made. Decrying it as crap for racist reasons is a bit much. You might as well dump 90% of classic world literature create before the year, well, ever created.

It is much more racist than most other books and movies from that time period. I can think of other southern, white authors who wrote things that were much less racist, the film is one of the most racist ever mad. And there are things that are more racist than GWTW (book and film), and these are all frothing at the mouth racist, GWTW is pretty close to that level, and I don't understand how people now can watch it and not see that.

Also it's not just the characterization of the black characters or the racist views of Scarlet and other white characters or romamticizing slavery and the kkk, the narrator of the book is racist, frequently the racist narration does nothing for the story but add an extra serving of racism.

And artistically I think it fails, not just because of racism. It's melodramatic. Some of the prose is extremely florid, much of the acting in the movie is not good (even taking into account stylistic differences in acting between then and now), including Vivian Leigh and Clark Gable. It also portrays marital rape as positive thing and just what Scarlet needed to be more cheerful.

I can still enjoy the movie for what it is, without viewing it through a 21st century lens.

So glad you have the privilege to do that, even though it's impossible.

Read the book and watch the film if you want, but stop lying to yourself about how racist it is.

[DanteGabriel]

Umm.... it's overrated piece of shit, but the racism really is a product of it's time.

It's a product of a time in history when a lot of people were propagating the Lost Cause romanticism and horribly racist narratives of history. The slavelord-apologist Dunning School of historical thought was still current and accepted when the book was written and the movie was made. Sure, it's a product of its time -- a time when people were generating racist propaganda.

ETA: Also, please don't anyone use a link off Breitbart to "illuminate" racial issues. Breitbart was a smear merchant who intentionally mis-edited footage to get a black woman fired from a job helping rural Southern white people.

[David Selig]

And artistically I think it fails, not just because of racism. It's melodramatic. Some of the prose is extremely florid, much of the acting in the movie is not good (even taking into account stylistic differences in acting between then and now), including Vivian Leigh and Clark Gable.

How was Leigh's acting "not good? This is one of all time's most famous acting performances for a reason.

[eyenon15]

I knew someone would play the political card which is why I clarified that I DO NOT give a shit about whatever simple minded political ideology anyone subscribes to. Just please don't assign these petty gang labels to me because I happen to not agree with you on a particular issue.

I wasn't trying to "illuminate" anything.

I said it was an interesting article which I still do think it is.

I don't know what this Breitbart person did or didn't do but that name wasn't listed as the author of this particular article.

I found that article interesting.

I'm not going to reject a dollar bill on payday because it has a slave owners picture on it so I'm not going to reject what I find to be an interesting article just because it's on a website named for/owned? someone you claim got a black woman fired from her job.

[DanteGabriel]

I knew someone would play the political card with is why I clarified that I DO NOT give a shit about whatever simple minded political ideology anyone subscribes to. Just please don't assign these petty gang labels to me because I happen to not agree with you on a particular issue.

You're the only one who has discussed "the political card" here. I simply described Breitbart as a smear merchant whose views on race can't be trusted.

[Myrddin]

So glad you have the privilege to do that, even though it's impossible.

Read the book and watch the film if you want, but stop lying to yourself about how racist it is.

Why do you find it so hard to appreciate something at its face value without projecting your own prejudices? I speak of my own as well, because I'd expect we're on the same side against modern day racism.

The movie and book were both produced in a different time. It's not too hard to calibrate and view/read without subscribing to the values of the day.

Seriously. If you can't do that, you wouldn't be able to read anything from the past. No Hemingway, Fitzgerald, or Twain. No Regency period, no Romantic literature, nothing from the Enlightenment. Go all the way back to ancient philosophy. All of it represents the values of the day, warts and all, much that we find quaint or offensive in 2015.

[eyenon15]

You're the only one who has discussed "the political card" here. I simply described Breitbart as a smear merchant whose views on race can't be trusted.

You also said that anything from that website should not be posted because of that. I have no clue who Breitbart is or was, Breitbart is not the author of this article. I find it to be an interesting article with factual points that remain facts whether one is racist or not.

I'm not vouching for the entire article as being factual but after watching both of those films I can say there are a lot of facts in that article.