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"... and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed."


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If it ended up being 2v1, Ned & Howland vs Arthur, wouldn't that mean either Ned or Howland had to kill at least one of the other two KG knights?



I'm starting to think Howland is just an absolute monster and cleaned up himself. I'm picturing the red viper but actually finishes people off.


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I don't think Ned would think very highly of Howland the coward.

I agree with you. It doesn't seem like it would be good story telling to give this little bit of information only to finally find out that it was this bogus, cowardly act that saved Ned.

I don't think it was something lame like magic, either. At least I hope it wasn't.

I'm sure when we find out it will be interesting and satisfying. That's not just wishful thinking. I think GRRM would make a good tale of it.

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I'd like to picture Howland as a total badass with his net and his frog spear.



I'm thinking yoda badass (like when he's tearing it up in the prequels).


It's probably not that intense but I'd like to think of Howland as a modest but shockingly effective killer.



I'm looking forward to finally meeting Howland.


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I think Howland saw the child's future. Something important enough for Arthur Dayne, Ned and Howland to conspire to hide the child's identity. It is a lot of speculation but most theories are: Dawn being Lightbringer and the Daynes being the guardians of it; Howland Reed is a greenseer and knows how important the child is, possibly TPTWP/AA. Ned bringing Dawn to Ashara to further their plot. The ToJ being torn down and graves built to also further the plot.


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I think Howland saw the child's future. Something important enough for Arthur Dayne, Ned and Howland to conspire to hide the child's identity. It is a lot of speculation but most theories are: Dawn being Lightbringer and the Daynes being the guardians of it; Howland Reed is a greenseer and knows how important the child is, possibly TPTWP/AA. Ned bringing Dawn to Ashara to further their plot. The ToJ being torn down and graves built to also further the plot.

That might actually be a refreshing turn of the plot.

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Is the consensus here that Howland used some sort of Crannog magic to either distract or injure Arthur Dayne prior to Ned finishing him off? Or simply that Ned & Howland fought 2v1 and Ned would have been hopeless in single combat?

I saw a wonderful post a couple years ago by maidenandwarrior that theorized Howland saved Ned with words, having possibly been in a romantic relationship with Ashara - all very interesting. But if that were the case, what the hell is Arthur up to now?

Could be a simple knife to the back or some magic

One thing I love is how it was "ice" Other vs "dawn" NW and one would have won except a crannogman (possible COTF offspring) intervened just like in the long night except ice and dawn reverse places

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Could be a simple knife to the back or some magic

One thing I love is how it was "ice" Other vs "dawn" NW and one would have won except a crannogman (possible COTF offspring) intervened just like in the long night except ice and dawn reverse places

Haha very cool, nice catch.

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I think GRRM gave us the key right here in Bran's chapter where Meera nets Summer.

"I never knew anyone who fought with a net before," he told Meera while he scratched the direwolf between the ears. "Did your master-at-arms teach you net-fighting?"

"My father taught me."

That, plus a hint in Barristan's PoV, how a whip, seemingly useless against a knight, is very effective for immobilizing the opponent.

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I think Howland saw the child's future. Something important enough for Arthur Dayne, Ned and Howland to conspire to hide the child's identity. It is a lot of speculation but most theories are: Dawn being Lightbringer and the Daynes being the guardians of it; Howland Reed is a greenseer and knows how important the child is, possibly TPTWP/AA. Ned bringing Dawn to Ashara to further their plot. The ToJ being torn down and graves built to also further the plot.

Hmm interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if "Lightbringer" are in House Dayne's words.

Guardians of Light, maybe?

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There's not really any clear evidence that Ned and Arthur were fighting sword to sword, is there? There were ten people in the battle in all. Maybe Arthur took a swing at Ned while Ned was still concentrating on another KG member, and Howland deflected the blow and/or kept Arthur busy until Ned could engage him. Agree it wouldn't be something tricky, because Ned "knows the value of Howland Reed", and he wouldn't talk that way about someone he didn't consider honorable.


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My opinion is that Dayne was mortally wounded from scrapping with these guys. Him and Ned are facing eachother down when Howland asks Dayne what he is fighting for. He says the living because he knows of crazy prophecies that Rhaegar is aware of. Howland says that he can't do it if he's dead. So Arthur makes a deal with Ned.

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