Mitbert Strangejoy Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 This isn't a Jon hate thread. I like Jon, and I mostly want to see him play a role in future books. However, the Jon stays alive theories strike the wrong chord with me. I don't want to see a dues ex machina situation involving either a Mel resurrection or a warg-in-warg-out type scenario. I'd rather the character die than be saved like this. (I suppose I'd be happy if his wounds turned out to be non-mortal but somewhat crippling). Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apovsic Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 It's the same with me. And the feeling grows with every passing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 He's dead. The TV show confirmed that. Kinda pisses me off, I would hate for him to come back like Beric or LS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 If you want to keep posting about the show go to the show forum, the show cannot confirm anything in the books. That is coming from someone who has argued that Jon is dead ever since Dance came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Yes, it can. Is anyone going to argue that Loras and Renly were not in a relationship? They did before season two, but not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I'm not fond of the resurrection stuff, but I must aslo admit I'm getting annoyed with GRRM killing off so many young, promising males. Ok, I didn't mind with Drogo, and I cheered over Joffrey, Robb was hard to swallow, but ok. Jon feels like beating a dead horse. It's as if it's becoming a specific GRRM trope: decent young man makes argumentable but defendable mistakes, but gets sliced over it (which I dub the Baldr-motif). Meanwhile the evil guys slither through everything and the girls have plot armour (not that I want them dead or raped). But sheesh: Bran a cripple, Robb dead, Rickon a savage of 6 years old, Tommen pfffft, Jon dead. Old men, cripples and young girls will be all that's left. It's about time GRRM foils his own trope. So, I hope he lives/survives/resurrects and remains comparably enough connected to his chore self. The Others haven't even come down for the wall and Dany hasn't landed in Westeros yet with her dragons. There'll be only shits like Ramsay, power-girls and a shaggy dog left for the big showdown then... well very possibly maybe a Gendry and Hot Pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I know George enjoys killing all these characters that we get so invested in but I think Jon has been built up too much for him to go out like this. I don't think the reader has come this far with him for it to end like this. This is completely wishful thinking, as Jon is probably my favorite character. With that said, I also don't want him to come back as a zombie or for him to warg into Ghost or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitbert Strangejoy Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Just as well, I'd rather not see my thread locked because people aren't abiding by forum rules about the TV show . Let's keep that at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakai Kahn Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 If you want to keep posting about the show go to the show forum, the show cannot confirm anything in the books. That is coming from someone who has argued that Jon is dead ever since Dance came out. This thread isnt even about the TV show it was just mentioned in passing. Its unfair that anytime anybody mentions the Show in passing they get jumped on. Fair enough don't post threads about the TV show here, but mentioning it in passing as long as it's not the primary concern of the thread should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I can see your point. I really don't want Un-Jon, but I'd like him to continue to be part of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir popelor Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Considering that even if Martin enjoys killing characters, he never kill someone without him/her completing their purpose for the story.So, why were we following Jon for five books? Just to bring the wildlings to this part of the Wall? It seems to little of a purpose (The same reason why I don't think Quentyn is dead)... He will probably survive, still hope not with a Deus ex Machina.My best bet is the warging but let him stay in Ghost for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I can see your point. I really don't want Un-Jon, but I'd like him to continue to be part of the story. I know that I could definitely be wrong about this but I thought that he was the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahai Ahoy Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 If GRRM really wants to set up Sam as the main hero then it could be permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esa1996 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I hate resurrections, which are IMO by far the biggest flaw in the entire series, but I don't want Jon to die as he's one of my favorite POVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naseridrl Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Yes I would. I'd also love it if Rhaenys was tPWWP just to show the futility of putting your faith in that kind of thing. Rhaegar had what he wanted all along and blew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya Stark Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 This isn't a Jon hate thread. I like Jon, and I mostly want to see him play a role in future books. However, the Jon stays alive theories strike the wrong chord with me. I don't want to see a dues ex machina situation involving either a Mel resurrection or a warg-in-warg-out type scenario. I'd rather the character die than be saved like this. (I suppose I'd be happy if his wounds turned out to be non-mortal but somewhat crippling). Thoughts?It can't be a deus ex machina situation if it's been hinted at in the books. I hope Jon doesn't stay dead because he still needs to play a role in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitbert Strangejoy Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 I know that I could definitely be wrong about this but I thought that he was the story. Well, there's always the chance that he's The Prince that was Promised/AA and that he's permanently dead. Things get pretty freaky from there, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Not really, it's not like other series with resurrections. Whenever someone dies in ASOIAF we are certain that they will either stay dead or come back as zombies. Death has a cost, and when our favorite characters get killed, we still grieve for them, even if there is a good chance they will come back. The cost is essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitbert Strangejoy Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 It can't be a deus ex machina situation if it's been hinted at in the books.I hope Jon doesn't stay dead because he still needs to play a role in the story. It's true that both the resurrection and warging as you die are set up in the books. Perhaps it's not a proper deus ex machina given the setup, but it still strikes me as a cheap loophole. Resurrection and the like are akin to time travel; it's practically impossible to incorporate them into a story without making the whole thing fall apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 This isn't a Jon hate thread. I like Jon, and I mostly want to see him play a role in future books. However, the Jon stays alive theories strike the wrong chord with me. I don't want to see a dues ex machina situation involving either a Mel resurrection or a warg-in-warg-out type scenario. I'd rather the character die than be saved like this. (I suppose I'd be happy if his wounds turned out to be non-mortal but somewhat crippling). Thoughts? How is it a deus ex machina? It's already happened to 2 characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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