Adaneth Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 No but they have never really ripped on him either He hasn't been the main focus, I guess. I haven't watched many inside episodes, just 3 or 4 in all 5 seasons. I don't know if they spoke about Ramsay though. You don't need to rip on Ramsay that much. He does that with his existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 To be fair, if they showed even half the shit book Ramsay does, then HBO is going to get sued or shutdown I don't mean showing I mean those post show interviews they do I am willing to beat when Ramsey dies the following phrase will be used "It was such a tough decision to make he was just such a fun villain to write and Iwan knocked it out of the park but the show must go on." Heck I don't remember hearing them once praise Stephen Dillane's performance of Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Kniggit Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I don't mean showing I mean those post show interviews they do I am willing to beat when Ramsey dies the following phrase will be used "It was such a tough decision to make he was just such a fun villain to write and Iwan knocked it out of the park but the show must go on." Heck I don't remember hearing them once praise Stephen Dillane's performance of Stannis D&D are incredibly petty individuals. Remember when Tyrion mentions Orson Lannister in Season 4? That's their way of getting at Orson Scott Cards after he criticized the show. Similarly Stephen Dillane criticized the nudity and gratuitousness of the show before so I won't be surprised if their dislike of Dillane resulted in the shafting of his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I don't mean showing I mean those post show interviews they do I am willing to beat when Ramsey dies the following phrase will be used "It was such a tough decision to make he was just such a fun villain to write and Iwan knocked it out of the park but the show must go on." Heck I don't remember hearing them once praise Stephen Dillane's performance of Stannis They have called Ramsay a psychopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Show!Ramsay was great in his first season, when Iwan tried to look ugly. Ramsay in the famous sausage meme or other early torture scenes is how Ramsay should have looked all the time (when not playing a good guy role).Then, around when his identity was revealed, Ramsay permanently became the new evil prince charming, and now he's closer to Joffrey than to book Ramsay.Out of that the idea to give him a willing girlfriend certainly ranks in the all time top 5 of D&D weirdest choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think I prefer show Ramsay, he makes me chuckle. Book Ramsay is like an ogre, as someone described before. What is more cliché - a monstrous ogre or a psychopath with charisma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I consider D&D's choice to make Ramsay charismatic, seemingly castle-raised, intelligent and decent-looking, the pride of his father, and in a meaningful and committed relationship (!!) stem from their decision to put Sansa in Winterfell. Had they made Ramsay like his book incarnation in looks and deed, they could not have had LF claim to know nothing about Ramsay (in the book, his depredations are well known) and there would have been an outcry from the non-book reading audience about marrying Sansa to this repellent man. I don't think it's right to say they couldn't have shown what book Ramsay did - they showed a variant of it in season 3 except they changed the men participating in the hunt to women. Does that make it better that Myranda is hunting with Ramsay rather than his boys? That Ramsay's girls are actual girls rather than dogs? That rape is threatened against Theon in the chase and not a girl? Not to my mind. They show far more torture against Theon, whereas the book couched this as thoughts and recollections rather than graphic violence. They also removed Ramsay as Reek when Theon took Winterfell, and how Ramsay manipulated Theon in that part of Theon's arc. No doubt, they felt it simplified that arc, but it changes Theon's and Ramsay's story in fundamental ways. Finally, yes, Book!Ramsay is an ogre. Let's not pretend that human monsters don't exist - they can and do. He is also a personification of his brutal conception and his careless and brutish upbringing in the hands of Reek I, assigned to him by Roose. In the book, we see his destruction of Theon is based in his own jealousy of Theon's highborn status and upbringing and his ease of manners (even if Theon is actually wracked with self-doubt). Ramsay and his 20 Good Men are designed by the showrunners to be enjoyable. I find all of these decisions nothing short of troubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 ^ When was !show Theon ever threatened with rape during the chase of Tansy? Myranda and Ramsey barely acknowledged him. Also, it isn't really stated in the show that "hunting" is pretty much a weekly thing with Ramsey. And though Theon's torture is show in more detail, they don't show his fingers and toes slowly peeled, his teeth knocked out, severely starved, or forced to roll in excrement. Also no "Reek, Reek it rhymes with freak" (which might have been pretty good) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatrineDiggerBrian Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think the casting has been unbelievable on this show, practically perfect. That includes everyone from the main lead characters all the way down to the very very minor speaking parts. With that said, the one in the cast who is my least favorite is Iwan Rheon. I don't necessarily think that Dan and Dave wrote him as trying to be funny, I think that's more in the way Iwan has chosen to play him. I don't like his acting choices at all, down to the very small subtleties / mannerisms. He doesn't really scare me or have the presence needed to play Ramsey. That said I thought he did a really good job at the wedding and the night of the wedding scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 ^ When was !show Theon ever threatened with rape during the chase of Tansy? Myranda and Ramsey barely acknowledged him. <> Theon was threatened in the chase that was set up by Ramsay to "rescue" Theon, not in the other chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think I prefer show Ramsay, he makes me chuckle. Book Ramsay is like an ogre, as someone described before.What is more cliché - a monstrous ogre or a psychopath with charisma?The psychopath with charisma. It's been done on this show, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think I prefer show Ramsay, he makes me chuckle. Book Ramsay is like an ogre, as someone described before.What is more cliché - a monstrous ogre or a psychopath with charisma? The charming psychopath has been done by pretty much every movie villain since Alan Rickman in Die Hard and probably before that. The monstrous ogre is really only done in horror movies. And I'd pay good money to watch Friday the 13th part 12: Jason Tries to Make Polite Smalltalk at a Wedding. I don't really mind that show Ramsay is handsome or that he's a functional psychopath as opposed to an uncontrollable sadist. It makes Roose's decision to legitimize him and not kill him actually make sense (without the Bolt-On theory). I dislike the fact that he's been turned into a super-villain and the focus of the Northern storyline. He should be supporting character in Theon's story, and charming or monstrous, he should frightening. He's not. Edit: and if he's going to be a functional psychopath, then keep him consistent. He's got no reason to rape and brutalize Sansa, she agreed (through tortured logic) to marry him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ni2tre Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I like Show Ramsay better than Book Ramsay, Iwan Rheon does a brilliant job with the character.However his time is done, he should die at the beginning of S6/TWOW. Kinda getting tired of the character in both mediums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The monstrous ogre isn't just a horror movie thing - its's an old fantasy staple. Grendel, trolls in LotRs - take your pick. Book Ramsay is just a humanized version of them. There are less Shreks than there are Grendels, in the overall history of fantastic storytelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 ^Sounds like a good reason to keep him a monstrous ogre. But charming or monstrous he should be a frightening supporting character in Theon's story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 ^Sounds like a good reason to keep him a monstrous ogre. But charming or monstrous he should be a frightening supporting character in Theon's story I like Theon as a literary character - he is probably my favourite book character because of how complex and grey he feels. But, none of this means that Theon is in any way more important to the overall narrative than Ramsay. None of it means that Theon is more of a survivor than Ramsay. Being a POV in ASoIaF is not a guarantee of safety, or narrative importance - it's just the lens GRM chooses to view certain events via. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Show-Ramsay perfectly illustrates one of the main complaints of the shows drop in quality; challenges tropes of good guys always pulling through in the end to being a cliche of the bad guy always winning and never receiving setbacks till the show is ready to kill him off and replace him with a new character who is more or less the same (Joff, then Ramsay) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Show-Ramsay perfectly illustrates one of the main complaints of the shows drop in quality; challenges tropes of good guys always pulling through in the end to being a cliche of the bad guy always winning and never receiving setbacks till the show is ready to kill him off and replace him with a new character who is more or less the same (Joff, then Ramsay) That's only if you look at it in terms of good guys and bad guys, though. Stop picking sides. Stop expecting anyone or thing to win, because you judge them good or bad and Ramsay just becomes another character in GoTS with father issues, as just about every single male (and half of the female) characters have. Jon has mother issues, to balance it out :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I like Theon as a literary character - he is probably my favourite book character because of how complex and grey he feels. But, none of this means that Theon is in any way more important to the overall narrative than Ramsay. None of it means that Theon is more of a survivor than Ramsay. Being a POV in ASoIaF is not a guarantee of safety, or narrative importance - it's just the lens GRM chooses to view certain events via. I agree, Reek/Theon's story was the best thing in ADWD to me. And I don't know how ASOIAF will play out, but the Winterfell arc in ADWD was definitely Theon's story and I'm just shocked that they would butcher it like that to make Ramsay the lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 D&D have basically tried to make show ramsay a Patrick Bateman and it hasn't worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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