Show Ramsay v. Book Ramsay?

[ummester]

Well, all the guys in show are definitely better looking.

Where's Jons horseface?

Where is Tyrion's deformity?

Where is Jorah's bald apeishness?

Where is Drogo's ridiculous mustache?

Ramsay slaying the Lord was local. Westeros has no internet, or newspapers - how would LF have heard about it? Even if LF could have heard about it through spies or whatever, why would he care? Westeros is a world where killing was commonplace at the start and, over 5 seasons, it has descended much deeper into violence. Surely political killings would be fairly rampant and commonplace - flaying is just a method, it doesn't make anythings special.

[Ser Quork]

Well, all the guys in show are definitely better looking.

Where's Jons horseface?

Where is Tyrion's deformity?

Where is Jorah's bald apeishness?

Where is Drogo's ridiculous mustache?

Ramsay slaying the Lord was local. Westeros has no internet, or newspapers - how would LF have heard about it? Even if LF could have heard about it through spies or whatever, why would he care? Westeros is a world where killing was commonplace at the start and, over 5 seasons, it has descended much deeper into violence. Surely political killings would be fairly rampant and commonplace - flaying is just a method, it doesn't make anythings special.

Why aren't Cersei and Jaime golden and gloriously beautiful twins (or at least similar) - they aren't.

Why isn't Renly a young Robert?

Why isn't Theon handsome?

Why isn't Robert 6 ft 6?

And so on. So, no, I don't think all the cast are prettier. Some are; some aren't. (Tyrion's handsomeness is unforgiveable to me, but since they have whitewashed that character to utter blandness, it's not surprising.)

Your comments about Ramsay flaying a couple of lords don't make sense. These are Lords, mind you, not smallfolk. It would have been just as notorious as Lady Hornwood was in the book. LF is supposedly a "player" - information and use of such is absolutely a tool he would need and use to inform his decisions.

Why would he care? Well, it follows on from how he uses his tools. His whole set up is that Sansa is a Cat replacement and, if that's not true in the show, at minimum, her importance is her claim to Winterfell - her Stark claim. No way he would put Sansa into the hands of a Bolton who does such a thing against societal norms (and flayings are against societal norms in Westeros) - he wouldn't jeopardise such a valuable piece in the Game with the fatuous words "Make him yours."

[boojam]

What do you all think of show Ramsay?

As brutal and cruel as he is, I believe he is actually toned down from how he is in the books.

They don't really show the "Bastard's boys" or the full extent of his "hunting."

Im not sure what I think of D+D trying to make him "cool" and "funny"

Like many characters in the books the actors usually bring an added dimension. Especially in elocution , body language and projection.

Very noticeable in Charles Dance's Tywin.

I think it's true for Iwan Rheon too, his oddly framed dinner dialog at Winterfell , season5, was off-the-wall , the book Ramsay could not have

finessed it that way.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Like many characters in the books the actors usually bring an added dimension. Especially in elocution , body language and projection.

Very noticeable in Charles Dance's Tywin.

I think it's true for Iwan Rheon too, his oddly framed dinner dialog at Winterfell , season5, was off-the-wall , the book Ramsay could not have

finessed it that way.

I disagree. I don't think Ramsay's role should have been this great, and he's supposed to be a tertiary character.

[Ser Addam DarkBlood]

i don't think the Tv audience can stomach Book Ramsay.....i mean what he did to Jeyne in the books was way worse than what he did to Sansa!

Show ramsay is has a dark sense of humor ....book Ramsay is just a Monster , as Robett Glover says "..a Beast in human skin"

[Richard Writhen]

Yeah the dinner scene was great, the best part of a soso episode (Kill The Boy)...

[Alayne's Shadow.]

i don't think the Tv audience can stomach Book Ramsay.....i mean what he did to Jeyne in the books was way worse than what he did to Sansa!

We don't actually know what he did to Sansa on the show, though. We all assume it wasn't much, more sex for reproductive ways, due to Myranda's comments. Honestly, considering how they framed it, had Sansa not been raped, this story could still play out the same.

[thehandwipes]

Show Ramsay is very inconsistent, a hallmark of all D&D's characters. He charms the pants off of Littlefinger during his very brief stop in Winterfell, but acts like a psycho around Sansa. If I remember correctly (I'm net gonna go back and watch the scene again), Sansa only seemed nervous rather than unwilling before Ramsay told Reek to stay and watch her "become a woman." Which makes sense since she agreed (through tortured logic) to marry him, even saying to LF she'd be "a married woman" by the time he got back.

He's got no reason to rape her, brutalize her, or lock her up; he's got every reason to charm his new wife who gives his claim to Winterfell legitimacy. But I guess character consistency is less important than "shocking" rape scenes.

If everyone and his sister didn't know that the Bolton's murdered Robb, they could have made that discovery (which Theon knows) the catalyst for Sansa wanting to escape. It also would have made her decision to marry into the Bolton family make slightly more sense. Loyal Stark bannerman seeking last Stark to gain legitimacy, opportunity to carry on Stark bloodline in ancestral home.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

He's got no reason to rape her, brutalize her, or lock her up; he's got every reason to charm his new wife who gives his claim to Winterfell legitimacy. But I guess character consistency is less important than "shocking" rape scenes.

Except he enjoys it.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Except he enjoys it.

There's no logic in keeping her locked up - Since his claim comes from hers, Roose would make sure everyone saw Lady Sansa all the time. Jeyne's locked up because she's Jeyne, and because Book!Ramsay's worst.

[Bobby b's bobby]

There's no logic in keeping her locked up - Since his claim comes from hers, Roose would make sure everyone saw Lady Sansa all the time. Jeyne's locked up because she's Jeyne, and because Book!Ramsay's worst.

Show to who though theres no northern lords and lady in the show who remember or exist just an old lady and Bolton henchmen

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

There's no logic in keeping her locked up - Since his claim comes from hers, Roose would make sure everyone saw Lady Sansa all the time. Jeyne's locked up because she's Jeyne, and because Book!Ramsay's worst.

Except shes proved she wants to escape. You are looking at it logically, when he is the sort of guy who has spent his life treating other people like playthings and inflicting abuse on them for fun. Them running away is assumed.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Show Ramsay is very inconsistent, a hallmark of all D&D's characters.

^This completley. For some reason his portrayal and role in season 5 kind of bugged me. I used to like his character and always felt like it was very cool and creepy when he came onscreen.

Although I maybe shouldn't have, I felt somewhat underwhelmed by season 5 Ramsay, even with the flayed lords. I don't know why but his scenes, just seemed at once over the top and boring. Maybe its because D+D stopped focusing on the Reek/Ramsay relationship?

I actually liked his season 4 portrayal. Sure his shirtless fight scene was a bit over the top, but it was kind of entertaining, especially his threat to turn the hounds on Yara. Maybe its just me, but while he was still sort of funny, he seemed much more vicious and creepy last season

"You had bigger balls than he ever did. But with them how fast can you run?" :eek:

His interactions with Roose were perfect last season, and you could see both the fear but hope in his face when around him. It didn't seem realistic for him to be all giddy and joyful in Roose, Walda and Sansa's presence. Like Id think he'd retain that fear and respect a tiny bit.

Am I the only one who thinks that the sheen has come off of Ramsay compared to prior seasons, or that he's gotten a bit worse?

btw, what would happen if HBO tried to show the full extent and methods of book!Ramsay's "hunts" with the Bastard's boys?

Its not like its that much worse than a lot of what HBO has done with it. Probably just condemnation/criticisism in blogs/magazines, and thats about it?

[thehandwipes]

Except he enjoys it.

My point exactly. Ramsay is an inconsistent character. If they wanted to make him an uncontrollable sadist who can't be trusted to reign in his impulses, more beast than man, then make him that. If they wanted to make him a functional psychopath who can blend into society, knowing how to choose his victims amongst people no one cares about, then make him that.

Show Ramsay moves back and forth depending on what D&D want from the character.

Except shes proved she wants to escape. You are looking at it logically, when he is the sort of guy who has spent his life treating other people like playthings and inflicting abuse on them for fun. Them running away is assumed.

She didn't want to escape until after he started abusing her. The Bolton's need Sansa because she is the heir to Winterfell and because the Stark name is beloved in the North. The ability to show Sansa off to their bannermen is critical. Locking Sansa up and abusing her not only eliminates any benefit from the match, it actually gives the North more reason to rebel. There is a Stark heir in Winterfell, an army under Stannis marching on Winterfell looking for northern support, and with Ramsay dead Sansa would be a widow able to choose a new husband.

The whole plotline in the North makes no sense, its just tortured logic and inconsistent characters, all for the purpose of raping Sansa Stark.

[El Guapo]

There's no logic in keeping her locked up - Since his claim comes from hers, Roose would make sure everyone saw Lady Sansa all the time. Jeyne's locked up because she's Jeyne, and because Book!Ramsay's worst.

There is no logic in keeping (F)Arya locked up in the books either as his claim derives from hers. Why doesn't Roose in the books make sure that everyone sees (F)Arya all the time? You can't say she is locked up because she is Jeyne because according to the Boltons she is Arya Stark of Wintefell.

[thehandwipes]

^This completley. For some reason his portrayal and role in season 5 kind of bugged me. I used to like his character and always felt like it was very cool and creepy when he came onscreen.

Although I maybe shouldn't have, I felt somewhat underwhelmed by season 5 Ramsay, even with the flayed lords. I don't know why but his scenes, just seemed at once over the top and boring. Maybe its because D+D stopped focusing on the Reek/Ramsay relationship?

I actually liked his season 4 portrayal. Sure his shirtless fight scene was a bit over the top, but it was kind of entertaining, especially his threat to turn the hounds on Yara. Maybe its just me, but while he was still sort of funny, he seemed much more vicious and creepy last season

"You had bigger balls than he ever did. But with them how fast can you run?" :eek:

His interactions with Roose were perfect last season, and you could see both the fear but hope in his face when around him. It didn't seem realistic for him to be all giddy and joyful in Roose, Walda and Sansa's presence. Like Id think he'd retain that fear and respect a tiny bit.

Am I the only one who thinks that the sheen has come off of Ramsay compared to prior seasons, or that he's gotten a bit worse?

btw, what would happen if HBO tried to show the full extent and methods of book!Ramsay's "hunts" with the Bastard's boys?

Its not like its that much worse than a lot of what HBO has done with it. Probably just condemnation/criticisism in blogs/magazines, and thats about it?

Season 4 was only time I thought the character was handled well, with the exception of Asha's ridiculous rescue attempt. HBO is a movie channel, if they show horror movies they could've done some justice to Ramsay's vicious hunts. And if they weren't constantly adding scenes of sexual violence against women for shock value, they probably could have had that one without too much criticism. "Full extent," no way. If I remember correctly, he flays some of them before he rapes them. Nothing like that should ever be put on film.

I would have been happy without Theon/Ramsay in Season 3. Season 4 Reek/Ramsay more or less the same, with a hunt a little more Devil's Rejects, but no Asha rescue.

Season 5 was total crap, throw it out and start over.

[El Guapo]

On the show Ramsey has tortured Theon including castrating him, hunted one of his former "girlfriends" and then sicked his dogs on her to maul her to death, flayed an entire garrison of ironborn, flayed a lord and his wife, flayed an old woman and raped Sansa Stark. Am I missing something but where did this idea come from that he has been toned down considerably from the books? I honestly don't get it. Show only viewers hate Ramsey Bolton and are counting the days unil he is killed. iweon is doing a fantastic job in my opinion.

[thehandwipes]

There is no logic in keeping (F)Arya locked up in the books either as his claim derives from hers. Why doesn't Roose in the books make sure that everyone sees (F)Arya all the time? You can't say she is locked up because she is Jeyne because according to the Boltons she is Arya Stark of Wintefell.

Everyone pretty much knows she's fake in the books, but the Bolton's are desperate for any semblance of legitimacy and no one can prove she's fake. Unfortunately for the Bolton's in the books, they can't rely on Ramsay and his 20 good men to fix all their problems.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

On the show Ramsey has tortured Theon including castrating him, hunted one of his former "girlfriends" and then sicked his dogs on her to maul her to death, flayed an entire garrison of ironborn, flayed a lord and his wife, flayed an old woman and raped Sansa Stark. Am I missing something but where did this idea come from that he has been toned down considerably from the books? I honestly don't get it. Show only viewers hate Ramsey Bolton and are counting the days unil he is killed. iweon is doing a fantastic job in my opinion.

He's still plenty bad, but yes indeed, he has been toned down.

For instance he didn't put the iron born on wooden stakes and line the road with them.

It also seems a tiny bit less misogynistic to hunt a former girlfriend ( who is fully clothed) presumably at Myranda's insistence, vs. hunting a random nude woman about every week or so, with 20 guys on horseback, and where the chase ends in a flaying. The latter seems much more vicious and misgynistic to me imo.

Also, "Reek" doesn't look that much different from a slimmer Alfie Allen.

[rosehustle1]

Show Ramsay is very inconsistent, a hallmark of all D&D's characters. He charms the pants off of Littlefinger during his very brief stop in Winterfell, but acts like a psycho around Sansa. If I remember correctly (I'm net gonna go back and watch the scene again), Sansa only seemed nervous rather than unwilling before Ramsay told Reek to stay and watch her "become a woman." Which makes sense since she agreed (through tortured logic) to marry him, even saying to LF she'd be "a married woman" by the time he got back.

He's got no reason to rape her, brutalize her, or lock her up; he's got every reason to charm his new wife who gives his claim to Winterfell legitimacy. But I guess character consistency is less important than "shocking" rape scenes.

If everyone and his sister didn't know that the Bolton's murdered Robb, they could have made that discovery (which Theon knows) the catalyst for Sansa wanting to escape. It also would have made her decision to marry into the Bolton family make slightly more sense. Loyal Stark bannerman seeking last Stark to gain legitimacy, opportunity to carry on Stark bloodline in ancestral home.

Yeah, they made him out of character in many ways except for the rape. In the books he is always raping women. They kept this aspect out of the show until it was Sansa marrying him.