Ghjhero Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Please no spoilers So just yesterday I went ahead and bought every book from Amazon written by Bakker that he has published almost on a whim. I've know they're really popular on these forums, but don't really know much about them. The thing that made me love ASOIAF so much was the characters. You love certain characters with all your might and hate others guts. The last big fantasy I read was Malazan, and aside from maybe a handful of characters there were almost no individuals worth caring about. I couldn't really root for any characters and I certainly couldn't hate the bad guys. The story itself was ok, but even that was very hard to follow at certain points. I felt that many events happened just cause without any logical reason as to why they occurred. Ok so that was a bit more an a Malazan rant than I intended, but the bottom line is does Bakker's series avoid those problems and is it something I will enjoy in terms of characters and overall plot progression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Bakker is nothing like Erikson. He knows where his story is going, and his characters are well drawn, with a lot of depth. Though you'll have a hard time finding anyone to root for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I would say each individual book has a ton of forward plot momentum. The first book is structured like lord of the rings--four or five chapters with one set of characters followed by four or five with another set of characters, all the other books are interleaved like a song of ice and fire basically one viewpoint per chapter.The first three books involve a massive war and feature an Eyeore literary sorcerer who claims he's a spy, an erudite barbarian with identity issues, a Kung fu monk with a mysterious past, a pair of paranoid egocentric royals (emperor and heir), a truly Innocent waif caught up in the whirlwind of events by happenstance and of course a hooker with a heart of gold. The characters are all pretty complex, sometimes likeable, sometimes unlikeable, more jorah mormont than tyrion lannister. The action scenes are really brilliantly written, the magic system is incredible, there's an overall series set of mysteries, a metaphysical whodunnit, as fascinating as the white walker, or summer hall or tower of joy mysteries in a song of ice and fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Please no spoilersSo just yesterday I went ahead and bought every book from Amazon written by Bakker that he has published almost on a whim. I've know they're really popular on these forums, but don't really know much about them.The thing that made me love ASOIAF so much was the characters. You love certain characters with all your might and hate others guts. The last big fantasy I read was Malazan, and aside from maybe a handful of characters there were almost no individuals worth caring about. I couldn't really root for any characters and I certainly couldn't hate the bad guys. The story itself was ok, but even that was very hard to follow at certain points. I felt that many events happened just cause without any logical reason as to why they occurred.Ok so that was a bit more an a Malazan rant than I intended, but the bottom line is does Bakker's series avoid those problems and is it something I will enjoy in terms of characters and overall plot progression? The first book may take a while to congeal, but it is easier going than Malazan. It shares the technique of early info-dumping tons of bewildering names and concepts, but if you keep going it'll all come together by the climax of book 1, which is masterful. Bakker's series have much more depth as opposed to Malazan's breadth, and I personally found the characters far more human and engaging than the cast of cardboard cutouts Erikson 'develops.' The action is kick-ass, too. That said, the last book of the second trilogy is written but may not be coming out anytime soon, due to mysterious publisher delays. We're hoping for some time in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Yeah, great stuff mentioned above. I'll simply add-- in terms of what to expect-- Bakker isn't really "popcorn entertainment". Malazan, as much as I love it, is essentially a lengthy written word comic book, that whole "hundred miles wide and an inch deep" thing. Diving into Eärwa requires a bit more, uh, investment than either of the other series'.Edit: jumping off lockesnow's mention of the mysteries... I found a lot of my enjoyment of both TSA and ASOIAF came from identifying and trying to work out the mysteries, but in very different ways. ASOIAF is more about picking up and putting together the dropped hints and little clues in the text, like a complicated word puzzle... think think crime/detective story. TSA is more like translating an ancient religious text; it's more about inferring meaning and implication (not to get too geeky fan boy about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 To give you an idea of where Bakker fits within the genre, I think you can rank how various authors treat the components of the story. Bakker is Themes > World > Character > Plot By comparison: Tolkien is World > Themes > Plot > CharacterErikson is World > Plot > Themes > CharacterMartin is Character > Plot > World > Themes Bakker also manages to achieve characters with truly alien psychological make-up; far more so than Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 If you need characters to like, you're reading the wrong books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Gjhero, I'm glad to see you finally got around to it. There's not much more to add, other summed it up well. Enjoy.ETA:true not a lot of likeable characters. Cnaüir is a bad ass mofo. And, I know many people don't like Akka, but I'm rooting for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It's not nesecarrily a bad thing, but I've known people to bounce off the series hard because they don't find any character they can really relate to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think there are atleast a couple to relate to, if you take them as human and so they can be fallable. Square jawed batman types who know how things should be (and execute such), not so much. Except, perhaps, for Kellhus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I really, really don't want to meet anyone who finds themselves relating to a Bakker character (other than Esmenet and Akka, and even they have issues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo498 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The two prologues in the first book are confusing because they seem at first unrelated to each other and when the book starts in earnest, it takes about half a book before the person from the second prologue joins the action. And there are lots of things hardly explained at all before the 3rd book (or not even then). There is also some major grossness, especially from the 2nd books onwards. It's written comparably well, considerably better than most run-of-the-mill-fantasy (which is almost damning with faint praise because most fantasy is so ludicrously badly written).Although Bakker is nowhere as good a stylist (neither as smart and erudite with his pseudo-Greek jargon etc.) as he apparently thinks he is and there are a few embarrassing, "tell because cannot show" bits (e.g. people keeling over with laughter over a joke that is either not described at all or totally lame, just to illustrate the incredible charisma of a main character). As for the characters, of the major ones the only relatable one for me is Akka (there would be a few more candidates (Proyas) but they have comparably little screen time). Someone already wrote that most of them are psychologically rather "alien", so if you like this, it is probably for you and likewise, if you dislike what could be described as borderline, crazy, sociopathic or just plain weird character psychology. And it's nothing quite as simple as PTSD or so. (disclaimer: I got stuck in the 3rd book last summer and put it "on ice"; I probably have to start over at least this 3rd one to get back into it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 He makes you love!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It's not nesecarrily a bad thing, but I've known people to bounce off the series hard because they don't find any character they can really relate to. I read the first book and never really cared enough about the story or characters to read the second. Not my thing, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I really, really don't want to meet anyone who finds themselves relating to a Bakker character (other than Esmenet and Akka, and even they have issues).This. I've come across some hardcore Cnair fans that scare the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 There are definitely relatable characters: Akka, Mimara, Esmi, Proyas - I feel these 4 are supposed to reflect some of our modern ideals and values. The world and setting is certainly bleak but there are characters who are relatable. I think Akka as a doubting powerhouse is always a great read (if a little whiny). Cnaiur is also the coolest barbarian ever - can I relate to him... errr not so much, do I like reading his scenes... hell yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Let's see if I can do this in six words. Bakker writes fantasy like rust cohle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Cnaiur is also the coolest barbarian ever - can I relate to him... errr not so much, do I like reading his scenes... hell yeah!This. One of my favorite characters ever. Doesn't mean I strive to be like him, or ya know, honor Yatwer in his special way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This. One of my favorite characters ever. Doesn't mean I strive to be like him, or ya know, honor Yatwer in his special way.... My favourite character is Inrilatas. Doesn't mean I strive to emulate him either (thank god...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble AK Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Definitely read these books. The first book is a little challenging to get into because it's so disconnected, but at about 3/4 of the way through things start coming together and it's wonderful. I would also this is a series that gets better with every book. For me the books rank as 5>4>3>2>1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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