Darth Richard II Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Expect black semen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Wait what...? He's lonely and misunderstood, and getting outsmarted by some uppity kid. Can't help but root for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xereaux Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 What gives you that idea? I don't think even Bakker's detractors would say his characters weren't well developed. Fair enough, I think it's my wording that's wrong here. It's not that I think that most people don't like Bakker's characterization, but I see that many don't like the characters themselves. I mean, no, I wouldn't like, say, Cnaiur if I met him in person, but I like him as a character. I can feel understanding and even sympathy for him even as I think "man, this guy is a horrible person". I've seen many people say that they don't like the series because they can't find a character that they like. I think that the characters, even the ones I don't like, are well-written enough that I can like reading about them even if I don't like the people that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I guess I am just weird in that I almost never read a book and like any characters. I'll have favorite characters, ones I enjoy reading about, one's I find facinating, but liking them? I can't recall that ever happening, but I'm getting old, so maybe it happened once-upon-a-time.I think what I like most about Bakker is the depth. We've discussed the books for years now and there's still more we haven't mastered. For me, it's much like Lord of the Rings, in that the world is the main character, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yea, I mean I get what everyone is saying about not liking what type of person these characters are. But, isn't this true for most of the genre, Grimdark in particular? Ringil of A Land Fit for Heroes, Karsa of Malazan, Hari Michealson, I could go on and on. All great characters, but, do you wanna hang out with em? I don't even really see the argument here or why it would even matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Expect black semen.We made it to page three before this came up.I think that shows real growth amongst our community. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Fair enough, I think it's my wording that's wrong here. It's not that I think that most people don't like Bakker's characterization, but I see that many don't like the characters themselves. I mean, no, I wouldn't like, say, Cnaiur if I met him in person, but I like him as a character. I can feel understanding and even sympathy for him even as I think "man, this guy is a horrible person". I've seen many people say that they don't like the series because they can't find a character that they like. I think that the characters, even the ones I don't like, are well-written enough that I can like reading about them even if I don't like the people that they are.I think there's some confusion over the meaning of the word "like" here. Many of Bakker's characters are "unlikable" in the sense that if they were real they'd be awful fucking people, and I think that's what pretty much everyone here is saying when they say the characters are unlikable. But that doesn't make them unlikable as characters, I don't think anyone is saying that. Bakker's characters are hugely compelling, the fact that none of them are traditional "good guys" makes them more so. In short, I think most people in this thread agree fully with you; you don't have to like a character's actions or motivations to enjoy them as a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Basically, the most sympathetic characters are about as sympathetic as Game of Thrones era Sansa and Gregor, and they get worse from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yeah see, you people that root for Cnaur all scare the fuck out of me. When you say root, do you mean plunge an organ repeatedly into the earth? Also, re: characters, do you 'like' them, etc, remember this is a humorless series. There are a couple jokes, but really Xerius is the only thing funny in this entire book. Sometimes Cnauir gets a line that can make you smile, but it's a world without humor, and the characters, though well drawn, are not here to make you laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of My Name Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yea, I mean I get what everyone is saying about not liking what type of person these characters are. But, isn't this true for most of the genre, Grimdark in particular? Ringil of A Land Fit for Heroes, Karsa of Malazan, Hari Michealson, I could go on and on. All great characters, but, do you wanna hang out with em? I don't even really see the argument here or why it would even matter.Honestly, I'd love to spend an hour with Hari (though he wouldn't), but I agree. Basically, the most sympathetic characters are about as sympathetic as Game of Thrones era Sansa and Gregor, and they get worse from there.That only makes me want to read it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 When you say root, do you mean plunge an organ repeatedly into the earth? Also, re: characters, do you 'like' them, etc, remember this is a humorless series. There are a couple jokes, but really Xerius is the only thing funny in this entire book. Sometimes Cnauir gets a line that can make you smile, but it's a world without humor, and the characters, though well drawn, are not here to make you laugh. I actually prefer this to fantasy authors who try to be humorous and fail, usually because said humor is lame or anachronistic or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's the "Marketa Lazarova" version of game of thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Wait what...? Aurang is a bold choice, but do consider what the hundred gods do Whole nations condemned to eternal torture for not believing right. Even Aurang doesn't manage to keep up with that kind of torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Ok thanks guys! I'm pretty excited to delve into the series! Just gotta wait from them to arrive on my doorstep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Ok thanks guys! I'm pretty excited to delve into the series! Just gotta wait from them to arrive on my doorstep! I hope you enjoy it. This is the only thing I've found that is in the same class as Martin for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 When you say root, do you mean plunge an organ repeatedly into the earth? Also, re: characters, do you 'like' them, etc, remember this is a humorless series. There are a couple jokes, but really Xerius is the only thing funny in this entire book. Sometimes Cnauir gets a line that can make you smile, but it's a world without humor, and the characters, though well drawn, are not here to make you laugh. Yeah, the actual "jokes" aren't generally that great, but Xerius for sure is consistently pretty funny. I think Cnaiur also becomes kind of hilarious (at least on a re-read, for me) once you get used to his character. He's so over-the-top, balls-to-the-wall crazy (and he knows it) that some of his reactions to things are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 I hope you enjoy it. This is the only thing I've found that is in the same class as Martin for me.Damn. Now that's hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Damn. Now that's hype.Its the only other series that I've ever reread. And, it gets better on a reread. Same as ASOIAF, the first time through you'll miss a lot. Like Red R'holler said upthread, picking up the clues is different though. That comparison was spot on.ETA: If Malzan is "a mile wide and a inch deep", TSA is 1/2 mile wide and a football field deep. It took me a second read to actually grasp some of the things tossed around in the Bakker thread. No need to fly through these books. Yet, I felt the plot was great and couldn't help myself, the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Damn. Now that's hype. I agree with Triskan. Although I follow a half-dozen or so series/authors, Bakker is the only one aside from Martin that I purchase in hardback, opening day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Its the only other series that I've ever reread. And, it gets better on a reread. Same as ASOIAF, the first time through you'll miss a lot. Like Red R'holler said upthread, picking up the clues is different though. That comparison was spot on.ETA: If Malzan is "a mile wide and a inch deep", TSA is 1/2 mile wide and a football field deep. It took me a second read to actually grasp some of the things tossed around in the Bakker thread. No need to fly through these books. Yet, I felt the plot was great and couldn't help myself, the first time.If we're going with this whole wide and deep analogy, how does ASOIAF compare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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