US Politics: Shotgun Wedding edition

[IheartIheartTesla]

I saw people on this board post in 2007-08 that they wished Hillary would win the nomination since Obama had no chance in the general.

Now the situation is slightly different here, of course, but support from the core coalition would coalesce around Sanders in 2016. There are also numerous issues where minorities will come out to support the Democratic candidate whoever it may be (there is a lot of simmering anger out there, cant believe it cant be channeled into votes).

Still, it looks like Hillary will win the eventual nomination.

[IamMe90]

Right. I'm sure if it were Rush, or some talking head from Fox, you guys would be bending over backward to deflect like you are with Takei.

I'm sure there would be no gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands here.

Makes total sense. Heh.

I don't recall anyone bringing up or talking about Rush here in recent memory, because nobody gives a shit. Similarly, Hayyoth is the only one who brought up Takei, because again, nobody gives a shit about his irrelevant opinion. This is the "US politics" thread, not the "b-list talk show host & celebrity discussion" thread.

I saw people on this board post in 2007-08 that they wished Hillary would win the nomination since Obama had no chance in the general.

Now the situation is slightly different here, of course, but support from the core coalition would coalesce around Sanders in 2016. There are also numerous issues where minorities will come out to support the Democratic candidate whoever it may be (there is a lot of simmering anger out there, cant believe it cant be channeled into votes).

Still, it looks like Hillary will win the eventual nomination.

I dunno, it seems like self identifying as a "socialist" could implode in a pretty major way with certain parts of the party base. Could be wrong, though.

[DanteGabriel]

Right. I'm sure if it were Rush, or some talking head from Fox, you guys would be bending over backward to deflect like you are with Takei.

I'm sure there would be no gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands here.

Makes total sense. Heh.

No one has defended Takei. They are pointing out the real difference in consequence between a billionaire who is running for the GOP nomination and an old actor with a comedic Facebook feed. By god your pissy whining on this is sad, even for your low standards.

As for the Rush comparison, has anybody even brought him up in months? I can't think of the last time any of us "libs" gave two tugs of a dead dog's cock about what that bloviating ass-cancer says or does, because we know it's an angry clown show. The only times I can remember him being brought up are to decry the outsize influence he has on the GOP.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Right. I'm sure if it were Rush, or some talking head from Fox, you guys would be bending over backward to deflect like you are with Takei.

I'm sure there would be no gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands here.

Makes total sense. Heh.

Poster whines about unfair treatment of Trump, gets direct response to this complaint, you claim this is deflection.

Makes total sense. Heh.

[Fez]

I saw people on this board post in 2007-08 that they wished Hillary would win the nomination since Obama had no chance in the general.

Now the situation is slightly different here, of course, but support from the core coalition would coalesce around Sanders in 2016. There are also numerous issues where minorities will come out to support the Democratic candidate whoever it may be (there is a lot of simmering anger out there, cant believe it cant be channeled into votes).

To some extent that's true, but I think the socialist label is a much bigger albatross around Sander's neck than the black label was around Obama's. Also, the '08 election was basically a shoe-in for Democrats, replacing a super-unpopular Republican President; the '16 election is much harder, its about following up a semi-popular Democratic president. Its a bigger ask, since you can't attack what's been going on, you have to defend it which is hard when the country's not in an economic boom (and even then, Gore failed in 2000).

And I think Clinton is pretty much the only Democrat well-known and well-liked enough to be able do it. Plus she has the advantage of having dirt thrown at her nearly nonstop for 24 years, the public is basically immune to it at this point.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

To some extent that's true, but I think the socialist label is a much bigger albatross around Sander's neck than the black label was around Obama's. Also, the '08 election was basically a shoe-in for Democrats, replacing a super-unpopular Republican President; the '16 election is much harder, its about following up a semi-popular Democratic president. Its a bigger ask, since you can't attack what's been going on, you have to defend it which is hard when the country's not in an economic boom (and even then, Gore failed in 2000).

And I think Clinton is pretty much the only Democrat well-known and well-liked enough to be able do it. Plus she has the advantage of having dirt thrown at her nearly nonstop for 24 years, the public is basically immune to it at this point.

Gore was a particularly terrible candidate, and also lost on technicality only. I don't think Sanders could win the general, but I do not believe Clinton is the only Democrat that could. Elizabeth Warren, for example, is a more skilled communicator than Clinton, reasonably well known, and free of any major baggage or controversies.

[DanteGabriel]

Elizabeth Warren, for example, is a more skilled communicator than Clinton, reasonably well known, and free of any major baggage or controversies.

Heh, you don't have enough exposure to the right wing arglebarglesphere. There was some controversy over her once having claimed Native American descent in her past, and now the right wing dead-enders call her "Lie-awatha."

Strangely enough, there hasn't been much right wing outcry over Jeb Bush identifying himself as Hispanic in a voter registration form in 2009.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I'm sure there would be no gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands here.

Seems like you've got that covered, really.

[aceluby]

I dunno, it seems like self identifying as a "socialist" could implode in a pretty major way with certain parts of the party base. Could be wrong, though.

Or maybe the adults in the room could actually discuss what a 'socialist' is and take the power out of the word that has been used to scare people since the 50's? A lot of what people like in this country are the 'socialist' aspects.

[Frog Eater]

Sanders can connect with the middle class in a way that Hillary cannot.

I saw a MSNBC poll that says Hillary is polling at 75% among Democratic voters and Sanders is polling at 15%. But that poll is from last month, I dont think Sanders can make up a 60% gap

[Swordfish]

Seems like you've got that covered, really.

Cute.

But no. I'm more bemused than anything else.

I do so love the old ad hominem though, so thanks for that. :)

Sanders can connect with the middle class in a way that Hillary cannot.

I saw a MSNBC poll that says Hillary is polling at 75% among Democratic voters and Sanders is polling at 15%. But that poll is from last month, I dont think Sanders can make up a 60% gap

Unless Hilary implodes. Which i wouldn't rule out.

There could well be a poison pill in her closet yet.

[TrueMetis]

Cute.

But no. I'm more bemused than anything else.

I do so love the old ad hominem though, so thanks for that. :)

What definition of bemused are you using?

[Swordfish]

What definition of bemused are you using?

Probably the wrong one.

[IamMe90]

Or maybe the adults in the room could actually discuss what a 'socialist' is and take the power out of the word that has been used to scare people since the 50's? A lot of what people like in this country are the 'socialist' aspects.

Are you implying that I'm not am adult? I agree with Sanders on a lot of issues, more closely than I do with Hillary, and I don't have any personal stigma attached to the word. We're talking about the general voting population, though, not us.

[lokisnow]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/246759-george-takei-justice-thomas-a-clown-in-blackface

What is it with libs who think it's OK to throw casual racist insults at conservative black people? I'll wait for the social media storm as Takei gets Trumped....or not.

No its a person who survived Japanese internment camps as a child being profoundly angry at thomas' ignorant claim those camps didn't rob him of dignity.

I mean come on, he said slavery nor Japanese internment camps robbed peoples of dignity. One cannot say something much more white-flattering (aka, an uncle Tom comment) than rhetoric Thomas used..

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Hey different question than the SCOTUS stuff, but to you guys discussing Sanders and Socialism. Does Bernie Sanders stand a chance, and if he does get the nomination can he do it without selling his soul to the corporations? I like the guy. I actually donated for the first time in my life. He asked for three dollars, and as a public educator I thought, "You know? I can double that."

Edit: Looking closer, the argument seems to be he doesn't stand a chance because he is a socialist? Whereas the argument was Obama was black? People might have voted for Obama to change history, but I can't see anyone getting excited to elect the first "socialist." Hell, I know people who still think socialism = Hitler somehow. If he doesn't make it, I don't see myself voting this time.

My real question is--if he were to make it, would he be able to do so without being bought and paid for like the rest? I admire that he wants to do it without big business money, but I feel like that was Obama's angle, of course he sold his soul to win, and then in end, he wasn't much different than the others.

[Shryke]

Hey different question than the SCOTUS stuff, but to you guys discussing Sanders and Socialism. Does Bernie Sanders stand a chance, and if he does get the nomination can he do it without selling his soul to the corporations? I like the guy. I actually donated for the first time in my life. He asked for three dollars, and as a public educator I thought, "You know? I can double that."

Edit: Looking closer, the argument seems to be he doesn't stand a chance because he is a socialist? Whereas the argument was Obama was black? People might have voted for Obama to change history, but I can't see anyone getting excited to elect the first "socialist." Hell, I know people who still think socialism = Hitler somehow. If he doesn't make it, I don't see myself voting this time.

My real question is--if he were to make it, would he be able to do so without being bought and paid for like the rest? I admire that he wants to do it without big business money, but I feel like that was Obama's angle, of course he sold his soul to win, and then in end, he wasn't much different than the others.

Obama was never trying to be anything but a Democrat. He campaigned on that. And ultimately, the President can only do so much if Congress doesn't want to cooperate. (see, for instance, Gitmo)

As for Sanders, he has no chance because he doesn't have the support or backing of enough people. He still polls way below Clinton.

[IamMe90]

No its a person who survived Japanese internment camps as a child being profoundly angry at thomas' ignorant claim those camps didn't rob him of dignity.

I mean come on, he said slavery nor Japanese internment camps robbed peoples of dignity. One cannot say something much more white-flattering (aka, an uncle Tom comment) than rhetoric Thomas used..

That really doesn't justify Takei using the word "blackface" to describe Thomas though. It's a nasty reaction that could have been articulated in better/less offensive terms to an admittedly gross sentiment.

[alguien]

I enjoy Takei's social media posts, for the most part, and just saw that he responded to this, writing:

A few fans have written wondering whether I intended to utter a racist remark by referring to Justice Thomas as a "clown in blackface."

"Blackface" is a lesser known theatrical term for a white actor who blackens his face to play a black buffoon. In traditional theater lingo, and in my view and intent, that is not racist. It is instead part of a racist history in this country.

I feel Justice Thomas has abdicated and abandoned his African American heritage by claiming slavery did not strip dignity from human beings. He made a similar remark about the Japanese American internment, of which I am a survivor. A sitting Justice of the Supreme Court ought to know better.

I have expressed my full thoughts on the matter here.

Here's a link to his article he wrote, mentioned at the end.

My own take: As a victim of Japanese internment camps, Takei was angered and vehemently disagree with Thomas's remarks about them, (apparently dignity can be lost when you're unjustly imprisoned by the government) and so he used a racially-charged and inflammatory response meant to accuse Thomas of abandoning his heritage.

I don't find that kind of fighting fire with fire appropriate (or effective) but as a straight, white male, that's very easy for me to say from my privileged perch.

[IamMe90]

... Jeez, George, explaining the (racist) etymology of the word doesn't mitigate the fact that it's a racist word. Not getting that train of thought.