unJon Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Saying Akka is the best man in the series is akin to calling someone the tallest dwarf. I have to think Bakker is going to surprise us with Mimara in TUC. She is objectively holy and good in Earwa terms (based on her view of herself with the Judging Eye). Since Earwa morality differs from our modern morality, I am expecting to see something jarring from Mimara in TUC. Also remember that Kel espouses values closest to our modern morality, though we know he does so for his own Dunyain ends. This leads to an interesting "uncanny valley" reaction in some readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I am expecting to see something jarring from Mimara in TUC. infantophagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 You really are arguing that a man who clearly thinks women are inferior and not as smart as men several times in the text is not misogynistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 huh? did esmi and DA wed at some point? and then she got together with AK after DA was presumed dead meats? that's not problematic, i'd think? but assuming that these allegations are supported by the text, why would a sex act amounting to 'cuckoldry' create a right in the allegedly aggrieved spouse to tear the offending spouse and alienator of her affections limb from limb? that's kinda gross, proprietary, fascistic, no? In book 2, They had a common law arrangement they called marriage until DA was declared dead after his capture at the library--only caught because his "wife" meant less to him than books. Notably esmi had to be dragged away from maintaining a loyal vigil for him, but he still thought she should have stayed his property even if he's dead and they never were wed by any recognized rites. As to the text of why Akka hits Mimara with a staff, here's a couple of relevant passages. Bolds are mine. In the chapter, Akka remarks first on how much she reminds him of Esme and how cruel that is. Rsb has told us akka lies to himself and refuses to think about his involvement in inraus damnation. We see the same thing play out in the first line of hour quoted text. First he wonders if esmi rejected him for kellhus because of mimara stuff. Then he thinks about how mimosas face is the same, just older than he remembers, then he castigates himself, asserting his new preferred reality that he never knew mimara: because Akka believes himself a good person, and no good person would sell their daughter into slavery because of hunger so since he is a good person this must mean he never had a daughter. you could even read his sleeping with his daughter as his way of proving to himself that he never had a daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 You really are arguing that a man who clearly thinks women are inferior and not as smart as men several times in the text is not misogynistic? Because they are. That observation is hardly his fault. Most women have no access to higher education (most men in Earwa don't either, mind you; it's a privilege of the elites). Akka is actually surprised and impressed by Esmenet's intellect. Surely a misogynist would see that as a threat and try to put her in her place, no? Instead he falls in love with her and thankfully seeks her counsel. Always the bigger picture eludes you for your more satisfying and knee jerk small picture conclusion...damnation, for f's sake. What's a knock to the freakin' head compared to eternal torture... That's a good point. I don't remember if Akka realizes that E. sent Mimara to him for protection already at the tower or if that dawns on him later during the slog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Kalbear,Solo wasn't taking your side, dude. You misread him entirely. Dude what is your problem? I literally just said that I misread him. You sir are truly the greatest debater of all time. And, we understand now, you like a book that is clearly misogynistic because of the world building.,....OK. Gotcha. 1. I should have listened to myself and never went down this rabbit hole. 2. No sense in talking to a brick wall. Thanks Callan S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themerchant Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 In book 2, They had a common law arrangement they called marriage until DA was declared dead after his capture at the library--only caught because his "wife" meant less to him than books. Notably esmi had to be dragged away from maintaining a loyal vigil for him, but he still thought she should have stayed his property even if he's dead and they never were wed by any recognized rites. Well in the books his internal monologue is to get away from the rationalisations of intelligent people so he could work-out what to do with Kellhus, thinking he needs to be alone to think. I can't recall reading anything that put his wife and books on a scale with him choosing the books. I also don't remember Esmi being dragged away, i only recall, Kellhus reasoning about what makes a home, the hearth or the people around it. Then her accepting his logic and coming along, although in the face of Kellhus there is not much choice beyond what he wants to happen. With regards to Marriage, they both thought of each other as husband and wife. I imagine recognised rights (can someone point out in the books the rites for marriage in Earwa i can't recall them) are administered by the Thousand Temples, who might not want to be involved in marrying a Mandate Sorcercor to a Whore in a formal ceremony. Can a Mage and Prostitute get wed by recognised rites? Akka is a murderous fanatic is my first thought when Judging him. He gets worse as the series progresses. My memory is not perfect though so i might have forgotten stuff or misremembered etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakkerfans Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 has this been posted? new podcast! https://soundcloud.com/tsa-cast/tsacast-9-july-2515-the-long-meandering-path Cishaurim and The 4 Revelations! H leads the way! EDIT: now with annoyingly huge fonts! bolded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Uh, one of the casters there (maybe Wilshire?) claims that Bakker said that Meppa was his favorite character to write. Where was this ever said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I love the personal effrontery generated by kal, EAMD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I love the personal effrontery generated by kal, EAMD. Well Locke, never, not once did I say that kalbear was wrong. Though, I don't see where I or anyone else for that matter should have to explain or defend ourselves for liking Akka. Hell, Cnaüir is one of my favorite characters in literature, period. So what? Is he a sexist? Yes. Is he a rapist? Yes. So what? He's a fictional character and those are not the reason I like him. What I find funny is how Kalbear like to point out how bad of a person Akka is, and all the characters for that matter. Yet, he's a fan of the story for....the world building. Come on. If these characters and Bakker's world offends him so, then why would he read such garbage? It seems so hypocritical if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Dude what is your problem? I literally just said that I misread him. You sir are truly the greatest debater of all time. And, we understand now, you like a book that is clearly misogynistic because of the world building.,....OK. Gotcha. Then I misread what you said; it sounded like you were still thinking Solo was on your side, at least to me. I apologize. And yes, I do very much like a book that has a clear misogynistic (by design) world. I like several of those, actually. And in that book, there are several characters that are also misogynists. I enjoy reading them too. I don't see where I or anyone else for that matter should have to explain or defend ourselves for liking Akka. That's good, because I didn't ask you to explain that. I said that Akka wasn't a 'pretty good guy'. Whether you like him or not or whether you enjoy him as a character doesn't really factor in to how good of a guy he is unless that's the reason that you like him. What I find funny is how Kalbear like to point out how bad of a person Akka is, and all the characters for that matter. Yet, he's a fan of the story for....the world building. Come on. If these characters and Bakker's world offends him so, then why would he read such garbage? It seems so hypocritical if you ask me. One of my favorite books is Lolita. At no point would I consider Humbert to be a good person or even a particularly likable one. I'm a fan of the book because it's well written, because the characters are expertly done and it manages to tell a compelling story about someone that I absolutely detest. I really liked the first Thomas Covenant series. Thomas Covenant is pretty horrible. Almost all the characters in GOT are not good, and most of my favorites are very much not good. None of the characters in TSA are good people. All have huge, horrible flaws. The world is a cesspool of suffering and degradation. I can recognize all these things. They are not by themselves enough to remove my enjoyment of the story, though I also recognize that they are enough for others. The problem you're having, MSJ, is that you assume that you have to personally like or value something from a moral perspective in order to enjoy it. This is why you continue to take offense - because you're equating your enjoyment of the characters with them being actually good people, and an affront to saying that they are not good people is an affront to your taste. But those things aren't required to be equated. You can simultaneously hold the view that, say, Cnaiur is a rapist and a murderer and a psychotic asshole while also absolutely loving reading about him. That said, I'd also not be at all upset and would probably cheer a bit if Akka died a spectacularly violent ugly death, I'm rooting openly for Kellhus to die, and I hold little hope for Esme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Ok, Kalbear lets just agree that we both keep misunderstanding what the other is saying, ok? I have no personal qualm with you at all. I see your side of things and understand where your coming from. Sorry for getting snippy. Let's just drop it and move on, fair enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 The most interesting things about listening to these podcasts is hearing how others pronounce some of these names. Like, I've heard Dunyain, Inchoroi, Iyokus, Bakker, Cishaurim, and several other things pronounced differently then I do it in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Uh, one of the casters there (maybe Wilshire?) claims that Bakker said that Meppa was his favorite character to write. Where was this ever said? I believe Bakker said Malowebi was his favorite to write about in TUC. I thought it was Meppa also, someone linked me to the interview where he was asked. It was Malowebi not Meppa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Like, I've heard Dunyain, Inchoroi, Iyokus, Bakker, Cishaurim, and several other things pronounced differently then I do it in my head. Also Cnaüir, Kellhus and quite a few others. Noticed the same thing Trisky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Wait, how do people say Bakker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Wait, how do people say Bakker? He pronounces it just like "Baker," but some will say it like it's "Backer" which is what I originally thought years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Those crazy Canucks. How does he pronounce "Scott"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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