The first Dayne

[Lion of Lorath]

It's not that no First Men have silver hair and violet eyes (and not all Daynes do either, by the way) but that no First Men other than the Daynes had them.

The pisswater prince had to come from somewhere, right?

[Hajk]

Are we sure that the Dayne's have had these Valyrian like features forever? Id it not possible that it is a far more recent phenomenon?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

The pisswater prince had to come from somewhere, right?

That doesn't make him a First man. He could had been born by a bastard dragon seen or some Lyseni and so on.

[BalerionTheCat]

The pisswater prince had to come from somewhere, right?

Assuming he really existed. And he was not the true Aegon that Gregor killed.

Are we sure that the Dayne's have had these Valyrian like features forever? Id it not possible that it is a far more recent phenomenon?

Yes, that is a possibility. But people with Violet eyes and platinum hair must have existed before Valyria. Unless it was Valyria's magic which created the colors. Probably, the first Dayne came to Westeros some 8,000 to 10,000 years ago. He had Violet eyes. Possibly he was related to the emperors and empress of the Great Empire of the Dawn (who also had eyes of such color). BTW, no one sees a relation here with some sword? This was very very long before Valyria existed.

[Bael's Bastard]

While all Dayne's so far have been portrayed with purple eyes, they have not all been portrayed with silver or gold hair. Gerold I think has silvery hair, while I think Edric has pale blonde. But Ashara had dark hair. We don't really know what typical Dayne hair color is.

[Brian Powers Of Palantíri]

Terrible strawman.

By your logic because red panda are named panda they are the same with giant panda. Which is wrong, red belong to Ailuridae family and giants belong to Ursidae family. The fact that it happens to have the same coloring, which btw for the Daynes is just the eye color, doesn't mean that they belong to the same gene pool, there is absolutely no reason to question the text.

Please provide example of any other people in Westeros from the supposed Dawn Age that have the Pale skin and Purple Eyes, First Men are a lot Darker. Dawn has all the characteristics that Valyrian Steel has, Stronger, Sharper and Lighter than other swords, but is from before Valyria.

[Brian Powers Of Palantíri]

While all Dayne's so far have been portrayed with purple eyes, they have not all been portrayed with silver or gold hair. Gerold I think has silvery hair, while I think Edric has pale blonde. But Ashara had dark hair. We don't really know what typical Dayne hair color is.

It's said that Dayne traits are Pale skin, with hair ranging from dark brown to pale blonde, and they often have Violet eyes. The thing that strikes me is the pale skin and eye color, which no other dornish have, Sandy dornish are very dark, salty dornish are olive skinned, with black hair and eyes, the stony dornish resemble the other people in the seven kingdoms, Daynes are stony, but exhibit traits that only descendants of valyria are known for. Daynes pre date Valyria though, coming from a lost empire, bringing the last Pale Fire sword with them.

[Bael's Bastard]

"It's said" where, by whom?

[Brian Powers Of Palantíri]

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Dayne

It talks about all of these things except the fact that they are descended from the Great Empire's Gemstone Emperors, who are talked about in the World book, in aGoT when Dany has a miscarriage she sees, "ghost lined the hallway dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were Swords of Pale Fire. They had hair of Silver, and of Gold, and of Platinum White, and their Eyes were Opal and Amethyst, Tourmaline and Jade." Pg. 752 AGoT.

Great Empire of the Dawn, Gemstone Emperors, pearl, Jade, Tourmaline, onyx, topaz, Opal, Amethyst Empress, who was usurped by her brother, afterward known as bloodstone,blood betrayal, worships black stone fallen from heavens, dark magic, slavery, torture.. Brings Long Night.

[Bael's Bastard]

The wiki provides no citation from the books for the claim. I don't think we have descriptions for ancient or historical Daynes other than Ashara, Edric, and Gerold.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Please provide example of any other people in Westeros from the supposed Dawn Age that have the Pale skin and Purple Eyes, First Men are a lot Darker. Dawn has all the characteristics that Valyrian Steel has, Stronger, Sharper and Lighter than other swords, but is from before Valyria.

Please provide where it is said that the Daynes have silver, gold hair, we know that they have the eyes but nothing about the hair. Please provide where it is said that Dawn is "Stronger, Sharper and Lighter than other swords".

[Brian Powers Of Palantíri]

The wiki provides no citation from the books for the claim. I don't think we have descriptions for ancient or historical Daynes other than Ashara, Edric, and Gerold.

The only three daynes we get a description of - Darkstar (Silver hair divded by a black streak, with dark purple eyes, Edric (Pale blonde hair and purple eyes) Ashara (Dark hair and Violet eyes) it would be very odd if most of their ancestors didn't share most of these traits.

It's just the simplest and most likely scenario, that the Daynes are descendants of the Amethyst Empress of the G.E. There is One mention of Pale Fire Swords in the books and they seem to represent the Gemstone rulers.

If you have an alternative theory that explains The magical glowy sword, with all the properties of valyrian steel, carried only by those Daynes deemed worthy of it, and how a people came to have purple eyes, pale skin,and silver hair who have NO Valyrian ancestors, and where they originated from, I would love to hear it.

[Bael's Bastard]

We have no basis to make assumptions about what is typical of Dayne hair based on three people. We don't know what the norm was. We don't know what Ashara's siblings look like. We don't know who Edric's mother was or what she looked like. What Ashara's parents looked like or who her mother was. What Gerold's parents looked like, and their origins. But above all, we have not been told of any particular Dayne trait. The closest seems to be purple eyes, but we don't know how far that goes back.

[Brian Powers Of Palantíri]

We have no basis to make assumptions about what is typical of Dayne hair based on three people. We don't know what the norm was. We don't know what Ashara's siblings look like. We don't know who Edric's mother was or what she looked like. What Ashara's parents looked like or who her mother was. What Gerold's parents looked like, and their origins. But above all, we have not been told of any particular Dayne trait. The closest seems to be purple eyes, but we don't know how far that goes back.

There is a lot more of history, genetics, magic, and legends that we don't know, than what we do know. Before written history we can't be sure of many things at all, oral tradition is not reliable, its like the game Telephone, only across time, embellishments occur, people change or forget things.

I personally think most of what we know of history before the Andals show up and write things down.

We know first men used runes on rocks, and valyria used glyphs, neither is a proper written language like, "Andlish" I've heard of books from Asshai, but can't remember any others.(may be others, don't quote me). I always thought Dawn was special, but when the World book came out with Gemstone Emperors (I can't take credit for putting this together) Lucifer means Lightbringer has a post called Fingerprints of the Dawn, he has some interesting ideas. GRRM himself said Dawn was one or two thousand years old, and the oldest Valyrian swords are like 500 yrs. It just ties things up nicely spanning continents, and millennia, to have a remnant of G.E, and Valyria, First men and Andals, and the Rhoynar all come together in westeros, where most of them had to flee for refuge.

[Nozlym]

My thoughts

-we know that during/after the long night, the great empire of the dawn pretty much disbanded and spread out among the globe

-we have evidence that they arrived at oldtown with the base of the hightower being made of the magically fused stone

-we know that they had swords that fit the description of Dawn being pale

-azor ahai most likely had one of these swords especially if he is from the GEotD

-after the long night the wielder of this pale sword most likely settled at starfall

-azor ahai can also be seen as the sun. the sun is a star. hence starfall

-the daynes either are decendents of azor ahai or just the caretakers of his weapon. who let only the most honourable and skilled fighters use dawn. its kind of a parrellel to the prophecy of his return from the red priests, with them only letting the few who they think are worthy or can be compared to azor ahai hoping that maybe he has come again.

[Hajk]

The only three daynes we get a description of - Darkstar (Silver hair divded by a black streak, with dark purple eyes, Edric (Pale blonde hair and purple eyes) Ashara (Dark hair and Violet eyes) it would be very odd if most of their ancestors didn't share most of these traits.

It's just the simplest and most likely scenario, that the Daynes are descendants of the Amethyst Empress of the G.E. There is One mention of Pale Fire Swords in the books and they seem to represent the Gemstone rulers.

If you have an alternative theory that explains The magical glowy sword, with all the properties of valyrian steel, carried only by those Daynes deemed worthy of it, and how a people came to have purple eyes, pale skin,and silver hair who have NO Valyrian ancestors, and where they originated from, I would love to hear it.

The question is, how do we know that they have no Valyrian ancestry?

The house has been around for over 10,000 years. Valyria stood as a great power for 5,000 years. In all this time, is it not possible that they may have intermarried with people having Valyrian features many times? Even if this was with Valyrian women, the traists could have become dominant over time. The ancestry does not have to reflect appearance very far back into history. There is no reason to suppose that the ancient Daynes shared any of these traits. Just like the descent of current Royal family of the UK (including Queen Elizabeth II) from the Islamic Prophet Muhammed

http://www.juancole.com/2008/02/burkes-peerage-queen-elizabeth-ii.html

is not indicative of their current features being indicative of his features. Features gets mixed and remixed over and over again over the centuries. This is why I asked if we have any way of knowing what the ancient Daynes looked like.