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Tourney at Harranhall Pic


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I was thumbing through the WB the other day and I stopped at the picture of Rhaegar handing the blue-rose laurel out to Lyanna, and I started trying to puzzling out who else is who in the picture. In the end I could only make a few firm determinations aside from Rhaegar, Lyanna and the Mad King up above, so I'm hoping other perspectives will help shed some light.



It helps if you have the book with you or if you could zoom in on the picture on the wiki.



Starting to Lyanna's immediate left, I first took this for Robert Baratheon, mainly by the fact that he is sitting above the stag banner and the way he seems ready to jump onto the field and rip Rhaegar a new one. However, in the text, it says Robert actually laughed at the whole thing and it was Brandon who blew a rod at the gesture.



So if we go on the assumption that this is Brandon, it seems we can make a pretty safe bet that the man to the left with his hand on Brandon's shoulder is Ned. That would mean the bearded man to Lyanna's immediate right is Robert Baratheon. The only other possibility I can think of would be Rickard Stark, but I don't think he was there, which is kind of curious in itself, isn't it? And if that is Rickard, then where the hell is either Robert or Brandon, depending on who you think the man to L's right is?



To Robert's(?) right, we have a scowling, dark-haired man who some might say is Benjen Stark, but I think is slightly more likely to be Oberyn Martell, judging by the way he seems to be leaning closely to the woman at his immediate right, which I peg to be Elia Martell. If that is Oberyn, though, he seems dressed rather more drably than I pictured him.



Finally, we have the dark-haired woman to the far right who can be none other than Ashara Dayne.




Now we get to the back row, and this is all highly subjective as these men could be somebody or nobody at all. There is a bald man just over Robert's right shoulder. Could this be Varys? He doesn't seem to be wearing much finery, just a dark robe. But is there any indication that Varys was even there? Why would he be up there with the realm's finest? Are there any lords or sons of lords who fit that description?



To his immediate left, there is an older-looking man who seems to be staring directly at Brandon. Was Jon Arryn at the tourney? I'm not sure if there is any word whether he was there or not.



Next to the left with have a shorter man with a rather large nose holding his hand to his head as if he is distraught. If I had to guess, I would say Mace Tyrell, since he would probably be the only one present with no idea what was going on.



And finally, there is another older man looking at Ned. The only other name I could put to this face would be Oswald Whent himself



And I won't even hazard a guess as to the two Kingsguard by Aerys are.



Obviously, the problem with the second row is that it is very unlikely that sitting lords of great houses would be seated behind the sons of another great house. But since it is unlikely that the picture was drawn by someone who had actually viewed the scene from that point of view, it could be that artistic license would allow the principal players in the drama to be seated forward while others, even of higher rank, would be pushed to the background.



And if the second row does not include Tyrell, Whent or anyone else important, then where are they? Why would the Stark pups receive this place of honor directly below the king while the high lords and even the host of the tourney are shuffled off somewhere else? Even if the Mad King did not trust them and wanted to keep them close, wouldn't it still be better to sit them where he himself could keep an eye on them?



But as I said, artistic license.



So any thoughts, primarily on my first assumption that the man to Lyanna's right is Brandon, not Robert?









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Well, Tyrells or Arryns are flat-out for that picture. No Lord Paramount of his family would be insulted by omitting his banner.



Benjen isn't present eiither. He was twelve, and there is no pre-puberty male anywhere present.



The bulky guy in Baratheon colors standing above the Baratheon banner is obviously Robert. At the time he was still cleanshaven as well.



The guy next to him is likely Ned, he's a bit younger than the other guy in grey and him sitting next to Robert would be natural.



Lyanna is Lyanna, no questions.



That leaves the elder Stark brother left of her, Brandon. Him throwing a glance towards Lyanna's reaction could be the start of a fit.



The next one could be indeed Oberyn



The remaining women are weird. The black-haired is more likely to be Elia. She's got black hair and the coronet with the sun of a Martell princess but that leaves the woman in the burka-look-alike sitting between her and Oberyn. Maybe that's Mama Martell? She may have still been alive at the time.



The second row are non-entities linked to the front row. Nobody important in his own right would be placed there. Maybe Rodrik Cassel and his peers from Houses Baratheon and Martell.


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Right, but the whole scene is queer anyway because none of the great lords are sitting under the king to begin with, so I have to assume it is a fanciful representation of the event rather than a true-life depiction. Also, the castle in the background is all wrong. Harrenhall towers are supposed to look like black melted candles, and these just look like plain old ruins.



I thought the clean-shaven guy over the stag banner was Robert as well until the text said that it was Brandon who was pissed at the gesture and Robert just laughed it off, publicly at least. That's why I put Robert in the center with the beard, considering he is the only lord of a house in that row, and Brandon as the beardless guy.



I put Elia Martell as the woman in the burqa thing because she was supposed to be frail and probably had to stay covered up, and the long dark hair of the woman on the end seems like a clear shot at Ashara. She's wearing a coronet, but I can't make out the design. It could be a sun, but I don't see a spear. Or it could be a starburst, which would be closer to the Dayne sigil. And besides, the story is that Elia was passed over as the QoLaB, so it would make sense for the artist to put her there even if the real scene had her in a different box or something.


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Right, but the whole scene is queer anyway because none of the great lords are sitting under the king to begin with, so I have to assume it is a fanciful representation of the event rather than a true-life depiction. Also, the castle in the background is all wrong. Harrenhall towers are supposed to look like black melted candles, and these just look like plain old ruins.

That's for certain. The entire affair differs greatly from anything sensible:

- Aerys sits too high, the good places were level with the jousts

- it's an amphitheater while the watching stands of jousts were parallel to the lists, with open ends

- the stand shown seems to be 50m further inward than any else

- there is an actual tent inside the amphitheater

- the backwards stands are far too high for temporary wooden stands.

I thought the clean-shaven guy over the stag banner was Robert as well until the text said that it was Brandon who was pissed at the gesture and Robert just laughed it off, publicly at least. That's why I put Robert in the center with the beard, considering he is the only lord of a house in that row, and Brandon as the beardless guy.

Then the stag banner would be shown in the middle. Clothing doesn't fit, family resemblance doesn't and it would necessitate Brandon to be 50 kg heavier than Robert.

I put Elia Martell as the woman in the burqa thing because she was supposed to be frail and probably had to stay covered up, and the long dark hair of the woman on the end seems like a clear shot at Ashara. She's wearing a coronet, but I can't make out the design. It could be a sun, but I don't see a spear. Or it could be a starburst, which would be closer to the Dayne sigil. And besides, the story is that Elia was passed over as the QoLaB, so it would make sense for the artist to put her there even if the real scene had her in a different box or something.

But Ashara has actually brown hair, not black. And why would a Dayne been shown in the forefront, together with members of the Great Houses and nobody else?

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I agree, the banner positioning is confusing. Both the Starks and Baratheons are great houses that answer directly to the crown, although the Starks hold the title of Warden of the North, so maybe that gives them dibs on the center position. But then why would they seat the head of House Baratheon behind the Stark banner and the eldest Stark behind Baratheon's?



Did Brandon and/or Robert wear special clothing? I'm not sure what you mean by the clothing doesn't fit. And since they are both wearing grey, rather drab clothing, it seems like it could go either way.



Yes, the man standing and the man to Lyanna's right appear similar in appearance, but I think this could count more in favor of the man to the left being Brandon since Catelyn remembers him being very different from Ned in both temperament and appearance. And since the painting was obviously not based on the actual scene but to supplement the text, and the text does say it was Brandon who blew a rod a the tourney, not Robert, I have to go with Brandon on this one.



As for Ashara, the description on the wiki has her with "long, dark hair" sourced from Catelyn's chapter in GoT, and from the picture at least she looks to be quite the fox. She was also Elia's lady-in-waiting and a nobleman's daughter, so it wouldn't be strange for her to be in the stands with Elia -- kind of like Jeyne Pool attending the Hand's Tourney with Sansa in Kings Landing.


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I agree, the banner positioning is confusing. Both the Starks and Baratheons are great houses that answer directly to the crown, although the Starks hold the title of Warden of the North, so maybe that gives them dibs on the center position. But then why would they seat the head of House Baratheon behind the Stark banner and the eldest Stark behind Baratheon's?

That's what I said. The bulky guy standing above the Baratheon banner is Robert, not Brandon, as you seem to assume.

Did Brandon and/or Robert wear special clothing? I'm not sure what you mean by the clothing doesn't fit. And since they are both wearing grey, rather drab clothing, it seems like it could go either way.

Yes. Two similar-looking guys in grey (as in Stark-grey, and with what appears to be matching silver brooches at their throat) flanking Lyanna, one guy in Baratheon yellow, Elia (whoever she is) in Martell copper and Aerys in Targaryen Black.

Yes, the man standing and the man to Lyanna's right appear similar in appearance, but I think this could count more in favor of the man to the left being Brandon since Catelyn remembers him being very different from Ned in both temperament and appearance. And since the painting was obviously not based on the actual scene but to supplement the text, and the text does say it was Brandon who blew a rod a the tourney, not Robert, I have to go with Brandon on this one.

No, the standing man is definitely very dissimilar to the two guys flanking Lyanna, who in turn are rather similar. He's got like 50kg muscle on them. The guy is a bull. It's Robert.

As for Ashara, the description on the wiki has her with "long, dark hair" sourced from Catelyn's chapter in GoT, and from the picture at least she looks to be quite the fox. She was also Elia's lady-in-waiting and a nobleman's daughter, so it wouldn't be strange for her to be in the stands with Elia -- kind of like Jeyne Pool attending the Hand's Tourney with Sansa in Kings Landing.

Not in the front row though, that would be an insult. Second row for second tier families. Nor does her dress fit the Dayne colors. And she is described as having brown hair. Which indeed is dark, but not black.

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Robert's height is really off in that pic. Like his brothers, he's a mountain of man. 6'6. He shouldn't even be able to stand up with a ceiling that low.



Anyway, as BBE pointed out, the black-haired woman with the low cut dress is Elia. She's got the coronet of a princess. The woman her immediate right is PROBABLY her mother. Robert is the bulky guy in Baratheon colors standing above the Baratheon banner, Ned is the shocked guy sitting next to Robert, Brandon is the bearded man glaring at Lyanna. All pretty simple stuff.



The big question is the man to Mama Martell's immediate right, and Brandon's immediate left. As far as I can tell, there's no distinguishing features for him. Oberyn is probably the most likely candidate, but even then...


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Yes, I'm half-agreeing with you. So you have Robert as the man standing with his hand on the man in grey, which would be Ned, and that would make Brandon the man with the beard to Lyanna's right? That actually does make a lot of sense because it would put the eldest of each household above their respective banners wearing the correct colors, but I still see a conflict with the text in that it was supposed to be Brandon who took offense at the gesture, not Ned. But both the man standing and the man with the beard are certainly heavier than the other man in grey, which conforms to the text, so that leans toward the bearded man being Brandon again. Maybe this is just more artistic license -- having Ned being the one who is upset -- because it was Ned who eventually marched on KL and finished the rebellion while Brandon was dead and gone and Robert was tending to his wounds.

But I still have to disagree on Ashara/Elia. Elia's frailty makes it likely she would be covered up, and if the one on the end is Elia, I just can't wrap my head around the idea that the covered woman is Elia's mother. I don't think we even have a name for Elia's mother, do we? She doesn't look that old, and it would seem really weird for the Princess of Dorne to be front and center but not the Prince, Llewyn. But it also doesn't make sense for Oberyn to be there and not Llewyn, so maybe Llewyn was injured in the lists, or maybe the man to Robert/Ned's right is in fact Llewyn and not Oberyn?

And my eyes keep going to the bald guy. How many shavepates are there in Westeros? Why would the artist put one there if not to suggest that Varys was at the tourney working on some spidery plot?

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In the book, it's clearly stated that Rhaegar married the sister of the Prince of Dorne, not the daughter of the Princess. It's said that Doran called the shots during the RR. I take that to mean that their mother was already dead at the time of the wedding.



And it makes perfect sense for Ashara to be there attending Elia. Elis must have been already pregnant at Harrenhall and although she appeared in the boxes, she would need someone to constantly be there to wait on her just in case.


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any excuse to flip back through the book :D



R-L


Robert -made to look much larger then other men in picture..wearing Baratheon colors, standing over banner


Ned-youngest looking of the men..in Stark colors sitting beside his sister in front of Stark banner..and Robert has his hand on Neds shoulder as if he is calming him..which fits the story that Robert "laughed" it off


Lyanna


Brandon- older looking, Stark colors..Stark banner..very peeved looking which fits with him being angry later and going to KL to have throw down with Rheagar


Oberyn- Martell banner and I believe it is even mentioned in the books that he was at the tourney..dont remember Dorian being mentioned


Elia- sitting beside her brother..and as princess/future queen/probably pregnant she would have a more conservative outfit on


Ashara - as Elia's lady in waiting and a member of a noble family of Dorne she would be pictured as part of the dornish "group"



i dont think the people behind the front row are anyone other then members of the various households...as someone said..this is artistic license..obviously the "players" in the drama are gonna be front and center together..even if they werent so in real life (Elia and Ashara for example would have most likely been in the Royal box with Aerys (and where Rhaegar would have set when he wasnt on the field)

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I also think the yellow dressed man is Robert. Brandon was, I think, described as a large man, and they are together. and they both seem larger than any other men sitting there.

Could the bald guy be Randyll Tarly?

And the guy sitting next to him has the Arryn colours.

Here´s a link to the pic.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/d/d7/PPRhaegarHarrenhalTourney.jpg

I don't think thats Randyll, seeing as it seems the Great Houses are seated beneath the King. If Randyll is there, where are any of the Tyrells?

Nice catch about the guy wearing blue though. Was Jon Arryn at the Tourney? If he was, I wouldn't be surprised if that was him.

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Well we don't see any Tyrells but the Tarly are one of their main bannermen. Perhaps he went there representing Lord Tyrell.



I have no idea if Randyll was present in the tourney, I can only assume or pressume what the artist intended to depict : that's why I think that the seven regions are represented in the balcony: Tarly, in the name of Lord Tyrell; Hoster Tully in the far right (he is described as being robust and big while younger, and by the time of the Tourney of Harrenhal he was already 50 years old); Jon Arryn next to Tarly (he even has some kind of white badge on his chest); and the one in the middle I can timidly suspect is an ironborn (colours matches with Drumms or Goodbrothers), but this go way off, since I don't even know if any ironborn attended any tourny ever.


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It DOES seem like the guy in the back could be Arryn based on his elderly appearance, blue clothes and apparent concern with the reactions of (presumably) Ned/Robert. This is, of course, confirmation bias, but if we're going to indulge, who're the two to Arryn's right? Assuming the baldy to the left is either Varys or Tarly based on your preference, my line of thinking of those on the right immediately goes to Aerys' small council, specifically Owen Merryweather, Qarlton Chelstead, and/or Lucerys Velaryon. I definitely like Owen for the older guy on the far top right.


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I think I still favor Varys and Jon Arryn to the left. From there, it's a toss-up between Mace Tyrell and Hoster Tully. Based on his muddled, confused expression I would say Tyrell, but based on the colors he is wearing it would be Tully. And if the last guy is not Tully, then I have no idea who he could be, maybe Barristan Selmy?.




Although that still leaves us with the problem of Oswald Whent -- he is the host here and it would be odd that he is not in the vicinity of the king, but since the pic is geared more toward drama rather than historical accuracy it's probably not all that unusual.


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